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Old
10-20-2009, 09:08 AM
  #151
HockeyBasedNYC
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Originally Posted by ohbaby View Post
How can you not? Honestly? When every point matters in this era of shootouts and points for OT losses? You guys forget how close it is trying to seal a playoff spot? Points in Oct. are just as important as points in April. When you don't put your best team on the ice, for no apparent reason, you bet I'm angry. Was it a back to back? Did Hank need 5 days rest instead of 3? Please, tell me why these 2 points weren't important. 2 points separate 4th and 5th seeds, 1 point separates 8th and 9th place. You wanna tell me 2 points aren't important. These points add up.

If Hank played and we lost, then we gave it our best shot. There was no reason for Vally to start this game. Hank has only played 7 freaken games! He has 3 days to rest! These were valuable pts we threw away.

There will be plenty of work for Valley this season. A very condensed schedule guarrantees it. With alot more back to backs, and 3 in 4 nites. Why did he start this game?

Why didn't Torts rest Gabby and Cally or just call up the Wolfpack and give the entire team the night off?
So EVERY game Valliquette starts you think Tortorella is "throwing away 2 points" ?

No apparent reason? Henrik played 70 games last year and got tired in the playoffs. Resting him now in October, is just as important as resting him in March. Its absurd that you think they "threw away" these points, like the Sharks are a rebuilding AHL team and are a lock for the loss.

This game didnt have anything to do with Lundqvist though. It was about the team. Did you think the Rangers played well in Toronto? Do you think they played well at home against the Kings?
If you did, then you arent watching the same game I am and therfore we are way WAY off in our opinions. You are entitled to yours, but i cant fathom why a coach, especially Tortorella would blatantly put out an inferior lineup (where the only difference is the goalie) to lose two points.

He was trying to spark the team and get them to realize they need to put forth a better effort. It was a wakeup call to the team and they failed to respond. I dont blame him one bit for this loss. Its on the players and Valliquette who knows he should have saved a few of those goals.

Like Fletch says... give us a list of the 18-20 games the rest of the season you would like Hank to sit. I want to see some of the games you feel Tortorella is "throwing away 2 points"

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Old
10-20-2009, 09:14 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Rangers4Life74 View Post
so if Vally won last night,would those same posters bashing torts for starting him then be praising him?
Valley shutout a tired Ducks team. ANA played in less than 24 hours when they faced us. As evidence their 1 SOG in the first period. While we were fresh. Do you think Torts didn't know this? It was a good spot for Valley.

Do you really think last nite was a good spot for Valley to start?

I like Torts, but he made a huge brainfart yesterday.

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Old
10-20-2009, 09:17 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by ohbaby View Post
Valley shutout a tired Ducks team. ANA played in less than 24 hours when they faced us. As evidence their 1 SOG in the first period. While we were fresh. Do you think Torts didn't know this? It was a good spot for Valley.

Do you really think last nite was a good spot for Valley to start?

I like Torts, but he made a huge brainfart yesterday.
The Sharks werent exactly tearing it up coming into the Garden either btw...

Losing 2 of their last 3... on the longest road trip of their season...

Its easy to make excuses either way...

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Old
10-20-2009, 09:19 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
So EVERY game Valliquette starts you think Tortorella is "throwing away 2 points" ?
How could you say this? You quoted my post!

Did you not read this part " There will be plenty of work for Valley this season. A very condensed schedule guarrantees it. With alot more back to backs, and 3 in 4 nites.

He will get plenty of work. There was no reason for him to start this particular game.

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Old
10-20-2009, 09:24 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
The Sharks werent exactly tearing it up coming into the Garden either btw...

Losing 2 of their last 3... on the longest road trip of their season...

Its easy to make excuses either way...
Come on, we all know it was a key game for us. It was unacceptable we did not put our best foot forward.

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Old
10-20-2009, 09:28 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by ohbaby View Post
Come on, we all know it was a key game for us. It was unacceptable we did not put our best foot forward.
Tell me the next 20 games you want to start Valliquette please.

Actually... lets say 15...

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Old
10-20-2009, 09:50 AM
  #157
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Don't worry, Hank will get his rest. He will not play 3 in 4 nites, or back to backs. There are many of these scenarios with the Olympics this year. Valley will get more starts this year. He just didn't need to play last nite.

This was just a bad coaching decision. It's got nothing to do with whether or not we would have won last nite with Hank. Although God knows, the way the King has been playing, he could have stole another one for us.

But since we're on the subject, with a 2 goal lead, you think Hank would have let this game get out of hand? He would atleast have kept us in the game. And even if he didn't, it would have been a much better scenario to pull him, put Valley in,..instead of the otherway around. Since you meant to give Hank some rest and end up throwing him in a lost cause. Hank can shake off a bad nite. But can Valley?


Last edited by ohbaby: 10-20-2009 at 09:57 AM.
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Old
10-20-2009, 12:12 PM
  #158
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so....how's OchoCinco doing in the AHL?

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Old
10-20-2009, 12:14 PM
  #159
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Didnt see the game last night since I was on a flight back to NY from Florida, so I cant really comment on the individual performances, but I was very surprised to hear that Torts started Valliquette.

Listen, I think Vally is a capable backup (not one of the better, or best, backups in the league like some have said...hes FAR too inconsistent for that...but an average backup goaltender), and I understand Lundqvist is going to need rest with the Olympics and all. But I think its quite ridiculous to start the backup for what should have been a real barometer game to see where this team truly stands against one of the NHL's elite teams. You go with your best in that situation and he didnt do that tonight.

Even more mindboggling is he brought in a cold Lundqvist to finish up the game....so much for the ''he needs rest" argument.

Bad, bad job by Torts tonight in what has otherwise been a nice start to the season.

I certainly would have liked to have gone with our best last night to see how we stack up against a real team, but evidentally...for whatever reason...the coach didnt feel the same way.

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Old
10-20-2009, 12:46 PM
  #160
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If we win the game, it's a stroke of genious. We lose and Tortorella's the goat. It's a fickle reaction.

I didn't want him to start Vally against the Ducks and I was wrong about that. We're both 50/50 on our goalie decisions.

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Old
10-20-2009, 12:54 PM
  #161
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I am not a huge Torts fan but starting Vally last night wasn't an awful move. My gripe with Torts last night was the penalties, at some point he needs to correct the problem that plagued Renney too. The Rangers have to lead the league in dumb penalties and for a team that's going to need discipline to go places it needs to be addressed now..

Frankly last nights loss was three games in the making....what annoys me are the bandwagon fans that can't comprehend that the team isn't going to win every game..
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Old
10-20-2009, 02:04 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I am not a huge Torts fan but starting Vally last night wasn't an awful move. My gripe with Torts last night was the penalties, at some point he needs to correct the problem that plagued Renney too. The Rangers have to lead the league in dumb penalties and for a team that's going to need discipline to go places it needs to be addressed now..

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Penalties are the sure sign of the team not keeping up with opponent.
Better effort usually results in better discipline. It is up to coaching to decide whether the team could be pushed any further. I cannot tell. Can you?

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10-20-2009, 03:20 PM
  #163
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Personally, I don't think playing Vally was that stupid. Sure, we lost a game in embarrassing fashion and we lost 2 points, but those points went to the west and we rode a huge winning streak, so its not as if the team should lose all their confidence. After Vally shut out the Ducks, I, and I assume Torts also, wanted to see what he was capable of against a significant, refreshed opponent. Obviously, we now know that Vally is not cut out to play against the Sharks and the other elite scoring teams. We lost 2 points to find that out. Worse things could happen. If Vally tore it up last night, the team would have two confident goalies and the sharing between them could be much, much more open leading to a well rested Lundqvist.

Also, lets not pretend that Vally was the reason we lost this game. The defense was horrendus and the offense, even the first line, looks like they could have cared less about winning. Personally, I was curious as to why Torts didn't take a timeout and set the team straight when things were obviously going up in flames. Also, its no excuse but the refs were fairly insane last night, the Avery rule, which dictates that anything Avery does near a ref is a penalty, was in full effect.

I understand that we have a young defense and the vets are definitely on the decline, but there's no reason that the offense shouldn't have been able to keep up with the Sharks. This could have been a 7 - 5 game or even a win if the offense came out on a mission.

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Old
10-20-2009, 06:29 PM
  #164
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With the Olympics, Lundqvist is going to need rest and Valli is going to play 15-20 games. Get used to it.

The End.

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10-20-2009, 07:14 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
With the Olympics, Lundqvist is going to need rest and Valli is going to play 15-20 games. Get used to it.

The End.
As long as those 15-20 games don't include elite teams Im fine with those. Plenty of games against lesser teams for him to play.

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10-20-2009, 07:25 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by FOXHOUND View Post
As long as those 15-20 games don't include elite teams Im fine with those. Plenty of games against lesser teams for him to play.
But that's the kicker. If we can't rely on Vally to be able to hold his own decently (as a backup should. A backup will not win you a game, but he has to be solid enough not to lose you every game he's in) then we need to look around for another one. I can't say I agree with putting him against the sharks, but what's done is done and I accept it. Time to look towards Thursday

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10-21-2009, 12:24 AM
  #167
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When Valley starts, it all has to do with keeping Hank fresh. Thats the bottom line. Doesn't matter as much who Valley starts against. Naturally, we will give him the softer assignment if possible. But the bottom line is to keep Hank fresh.

Now your telling me, with only 7 starts and a 3 day rest til the next game, Hank needed the night off? You guys can't be serious? Torts blew it, plain and simple.

The only reason I can see Torts went with Valley, is to light a fire under the team, to make sure they concentrate at the task at hand. They were getting a little dependant on Hank bailing them out. That said,.. it's best early in the season to try a little experiment. But why experiment when you have a 7 game win streak? Granted, they weren't playing their best the last few games, but they could have tried to turn it around vs a strong team. A big test. Instead, they play without their Gold Medal Olympian? What kind of message is that to send the team in a big game?

I have exhausted all my thoughts on this matter. Time to move on.


Last edited by ohbaby: 10-21-2009 at 12:35 AM.
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Old
10-21-2009, 12:55 AM
  #168
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Penalties are the sure sign of the team not keeping up with opponent.
Better effort usually results in better discipline. It is up to coaching to decide whether the team could be pushed any further. I cannot tell. Can you?
Not sure this is connected, but while we take too many penalties, which like you said, is a sure sign of the team not keeping up,... We do lead the league in PP opportunities. So while I'm not disagreeing with you, it is some consolation we create as many man advantages as we give. And with the PP firing on all cylinders, it kinda softens the blow of being undisciplined. If we're to be aggressive, draw penalties and go on the PP, it's likely we will cross the line more often. We just need our special teams to continue their fine play.


Last edited by ohbaby: 10-21-2009 at 01:22 AM.
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Old
10-21-2009, 06:41 AM
  #169
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We were bound for a letdown game sooner or later. In retrospect, it seems Torts knew it. I guess he figured it might as well be against a Western conference team where if they win it won't matter, and might as well give Hank a rest.

I see the blow-out as kind of a reset game. We're no longer under pressure of a winning streak. We got embarrassed on home ice. This will fire them up to pound the Devils tomorrow!

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Old
10-21-2009, 07:07 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by BKBlackRanger View Post
so....how's OchoCinco doing in the AHL?
getting lit up like a christmas tree, softies left and right, no occasional "big" save... a shadow of his pre-season play with the Rangers.

Matt Zaba is even worse than that... but he's out with a concussion...

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Old
10-21-2009, 11:34 PM
  #171
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[QUOTE]
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Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
We were bound for a letdown game sooner or later. In retrospect, it seems Torts knew it. I guess he figured it might as well be against a Western conference team where if they win it won't matter, and might as well give Hank a rest.
If that's how Tortorella thinks... he wouldn't be fit to coach in a pee wee league.

Quote:
I see the blow-out as kind of a reset game. We're no longer under pressure of a winning streak. We got embarrassed on home ice. This will fire them up to pound the Devils tomorrow.
Better hope the Devils don't pound us, after the performance we put on the other nite. If you were to ask me, they're under alot more pressure now to right the ship.

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