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Kostitsyn brothers to Los Angeles.All Frolov Talk Here

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Old
10-22-2009, 10:51 AM
  #26
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i think trading Akost would be a real mistake. He has the potential to score 40 goals, you don't give up on great talent unless you're 100% he's going to be a bust. And in the last few games, you can really see that he is working hard, and has listened to JM. Give him more time; I am confident he is soon going to be an offensive threat every night. In the game vs thrashers, he could have easily gotten one goal (if not for Bogosian's play) and two assists (if Plek and Hammer didn't choke).

As for SK, as much as I like him, I'll be okay if he gets traded, especially if we get a good player in return, but I doubt it. I'd like to have him stay, great talent as well. I know Eklund has no credibility, but still, I hope this rumour is not true. Frolov is a soon-to-be UFA, and I'm not sure he fits in with the team. I say PAAAASSSSSS

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10-22-2009, 10:55 AM
  #27
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If it could be done without sacrificing Andrei Kostitsyn, I'd be all for it. If both were offered up, I would expect that Frolov would either get an immediate extension, or another player/prospect would come along with him.

Frolov would give the Habs some much needed size up front. He wouldn't have to check anyone through the boards either, just be able to come up with and protect the puck in the offensive zone.

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10-22-2009, 10:56 AM
  #28
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I'd love to get Frolov AND keep A. Kostitsyn.

Cammalleri-Gomez-Gionta
Frolov-Plekanec-Kostitsyn

That's a nice top 6.

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Old
10-22-2009, 10:58 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LoyalHabsFan View Post
i think trading Akost would be a real mistake. He has the potential to score 40 goals, you don't give up on great talent unless you're 100% he's going to be a bust. And in the last few games, you can really see that he is working hard, and has listened to JM. Give him more time; I am confident he is soon going to be an offensive threat every night. In the game vs thrashers, he could have easily gotten one goal (if not for Bogosian's play) and two assists (if Plek and Hammer didn't choke).

As for SK, as much as I like him, I'll be okay if he gets traded, especially if we get a good player in return, but I doubt it. I'd like to have him stay, great talent as well. I know Eklund has no credibility, but still, I hope this rumour is not true. Frolov is a soon-to-be UFA, and I'm not sure he fits in with the team. I say PAAAASSSSSS

I would pass too on both of them for Frolov. Give AK more playing time, more PP time, and put him on the 1st line, and see what he produces too. Did Frolov score most of his goals/point when he was playing on the 1st line? Ie. more PP time also and with Kopitar/O'sullivan?

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10-22-2009, 11:01 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
Yeah, a thread about a complete shot in the dark with close to zero percent chance of it happening on a trade rumour on a hockey website. Rediculous!
Makes more sense now. E6


(beside lack of sentence structure that is.)

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10-22-2009, 11:01 AM
  #31
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If Kings signed him to an extension Habs could afford or gave some long term assets along with Frolov, I would do it. Otherwise theres only slight short term gain.

Btw. Does anyone else think living in LA would absolutely destroy Kostitsyns...

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10-22-2009, 11:09 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by LouisJCloutier View Post
Frolov for the K ?

Why not ?
Because Andrei Kostitsyn was one of the locomotives of the 07-08 season and is about as key to the Habs' youth movement as you can get.

If you decide AKost isn't good enough, then it puts the entire off-season into question -- if you don't have good youth, then you don't bother with UFAs, you need to rebuild instead.

Unless AKost is traded for a similarly young offensive forward (and Frolov is UFA next year), I think trading him throws the whole long-term plan of the franchise into question.

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10-22-2009, 11:10 AM
  #33
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No thanks! Frolov is the same thing of koststyn,a other russe with no effort

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10-22-2009, 11:16 AM
  #34
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Eklund's source....








ME ON TWITTER? LOLZ
http://twitter.com/jdickie/status/4499442939

Quote:
if the rumors of frolov being expendable are true, i'd take him for the Kostitsyns in a heartbeat.
12:24 PM Sep 30th from web in reply to HendricksHockey

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Old
10-22-2009, 11:17 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by LoyalHabsFan View Post
i think trading Akost would be a real mistake. He has the potential to score 40 goals, you don't give up on great talent unless you're 100% he's going to be a bust. And in the last few games, you can really see that he is working hard, and has listened to JM. Give him more time; I am confident he is soon going to be an offensive threat every night. In the game vs thrashers, he could have easily gotten one goal (if not for Bogosian's play) and two assists (if Plek and Hammer didn't choke).
And when you're 100% sure he's a bust, he will be worth absolutely nothing. It's not like any team won't realize this at the same point either, meaing you'll get next to nothing in return if anything.

There's a happy medium where your 'great talent' isn't shaping up the way that you hoped, and can use him as an asset to acquire something of value in return.

I agree that we shouldn't trade A Kost now. His upside it too much. But there's going to be a point very soon where his contract demands will outweigh his potential upside vs. production.

He was given a fair contract after the 07-08 season based on a strong year and his age. That contract was a starting point.

Next year is the make or break year for A Kost IMO. His contract is up at the end of season, and he will likely see a pay increase, or head to arbitration. Meaning we'll be paying ~3.5 million per (or more), to see if a players going to turn into a 40 goal scorer?

Don't think so.

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Old
10-22-2009, 11:22 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Just heard a rumor...

To Montreal:

Alexander Frolov

To Los Angeles:

Andrei Kostitsyn + Sergei Kostitsyn

Personally I think that we are overpaying for a pending UFA and someone that might turn into a Kovalev in this league (someone who floats and does not care at times).

Discuss!
Stupid idea. We would lose at every levels.

At this point, I would take A.Kostitsyn over Frolov. The guy is lazy while A.K. is just going through a confidence problem... and is improving.

S.K. is also a player I want on my team. When you manage to control a guy like that, it can be a great asset during a game.

So let's forget about trading those two players: they are keepers.

Expect S.K to come back to the NHL and Pacioretty to go down within two weeks.

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Old
10-22-2009, 11:25 AM
  #37
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I'm all for packaging the Kost Bros for something but Frolov ? Meh...

He's a good player but he's also another headcase. Do we really need another distraction after Malakhov , Kovalev , Samsonov and now SKost ? That and i think that the combined potential of the Kost Bros >>> a possible rental in Frolov (i wouldn't sign that guy long term for big money in any way).

Pass

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10-22-2009, 11:31 AM
  #38
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I think it's a stupid idea... I wouldnt do it.. Your not progressing, if anything your just getting rid of two problems and adding the same two problems. You will get rid of a top 6 forward.. and his brothers attitude problems.. for a top 6 forward and attitude problems..

We will be EXACTLY where we were before. We need to keep AKOS there and try to get a top 6 forward who can fill the void that is being taken by Pacioretty (Lapierre) on the 2nd line.

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Old
10-22-2009, 11:36 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Jiggernaut View Post
And when you're 100% sure he's a bust, he will be worth absolutely nothing. It's not like any team won't realize this at the same point either, meaing you'll get next to nothing in return if anything.

There's a happy medium where your 'great talent' isn't shaping up the way that you hoped, and can use him as an asset to acquire something of value in return.
I understand what you're saying, however, I'd rather take the chance of keeping him and seeing him bust and lose out on a potential trade. We're not talking about a Higgins-type of player. It's someone who can be your team's go-to player. You keep him, it's that simple. Let's say he has 50/50 chance of fulfilling his full potential (or bust), I still wouldn't want to trade him. Do you really want to take the risk of seeing him score 50 goals, and become a Habs killer (John Leclaire for example) for many years to come?

If we can land and sign (long-term) a proven star, then I'll be fine with trading Akost, but it's never gonna happen. Players like Akost always has the risk of not panning out, and other teams know that, so we are not going to get fair value back in return. I'm not okay with just getting something "valuable" in return, such as a borderline 2nd liner or 3rd line defensive player. We want to be a great team, and not an average team. To be great, you need to take risks, and I hope keeping Akost is one of the risks that the Habs are willing to take.

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Old
10-22-2009, 11:39 AM
  #40
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it does fit into martins plan of having pairs on each line that fit well together ie. gionta gomez, cam and frolov, also side note happy to see halak get a second start, lets see if this helps price raise his game

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Old
10-22-2009, 11:40 AM
  #41
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I understand what you're saying, however, I'd rather take the chance of keeping him and seeing him bust and lose out on a potential trade. We're not talking about a Higgins-type of player. It's someone who can be your team's go-to player. You keep him, it's that simple. Let's say he has 50/50 chance of fulfilling his full potential (or bust), I still wouldn't want to trade him. Do you really want to take the risk of seeing him score 50 goals, and become a Habs killer (John Leclaire for example) for many years to come?

If we can land and sign (long-term) a proven star, then I'll be fine with trading Akost, but it's never gonna happen. Players like Akost always has the risk of not panning out, and other teams know that, so we are not going to get fair value back in return. I'm not okay with just getting something "valuable" in return, such as a borderline 2nd liner or 3rd line defensive player. We want to be a great team, and not an average team. To be great, you need to take risks, and I hope keeping Akost is one of the risks that the Habs are willing to take.
You fail to see the major difference in Leclair to AK, Leclair worked hard and knew what it took to win. AK doesn't have that same quality of commitment as Leclair did, AK wouldn't come back to haunt us and SK wouldn't either. They are two kids that are trouble on and off the ice and if they are fulltime NHLers elsewhere big deal, just get fair value for them and move on because they are not a big piece of the puzzle.

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Old
10-22-2009, 11:42 AM
  #42
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If we are going to send both brothers packing, it can't be for a rental. Needs to be somebody locked up for a fews years.

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10-22-2009, 11:42 AM
  #43
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I think it's fair for both teams. At this pt the one brother is worth nothing ........make the deal if it can be made

good for LA too moving a guy they are down on and a UFA next yr I think for talented Bros.

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10-22-2009, 11:44 AM
  #44
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If we are going to send both brothers packing, it can't be for a rental. Needs to be somebody locked up for a fews years.
Sergei could walk after this season and go to the KHL and Andrei has one year left and may do the same.

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10-22-2009, 11:53 AM
  #45
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Sergei could walk after this season and go to the KHL and Andrei has one year left and may do the same.
AKost has given no indication he's thinking about the khl. As others have said SKost + picks/prospects seems more reasonable. AKost has more value to the Habs right now. Frolov may have more value around the league but his potential is too good to ignore for a rental. Something built around skost+ and frolov makes more sense. Problem for problem. Even adding dagostini and skost would make more sense.

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10-22-2009, 11:55 AM
  #46
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I understand what you're saying, however, I'd rather take the chance of keeping him and seeing him bust and lose out on a potential trade. We're not talking about a Higgins-type of player. It's someone who can be your team's go-to player. You keep him, it's that simple. Let's say he has 50/50 chance of fulfilling his full potential (or bust), I still wouldn't want to trade him. Do you really want to take the risk of seeing him score 50 goals, and become a Habs killer (John Leclaire for example) for many years to come?

If we can land and sign (long-term) a proven star, then I'll be fine with trading Akost, but it's never gonna happen. Players like Akost always has the risk of not panning out, and other teams know that, so we are not going to get fair value back in return. I'm not okay with just getting something "valuable" in return, such as a borderline 2nd liner or 3rd line defensive player. We want to be a great team, and not an average team. To be great, you need to take risks, and I hope keeping Akost is one of the risks that the Habs are willing to take.
I completely understand on what you're saying, and agree to it in most parts. My only issue with all this is the whole contact status as I mentioned, as we live in a salary cap world now.

I have no issues with paying the guy his current salary, and paying him more after next season if he continues to show improvement in his output. Granted there are other factors that can be considered when we're talking about his improvement, but the reality is, we're expecting offensive output from this kid.

He regressed in his output last year, has gotten off to a slow start this year, but is finally showing signs of waking up. When his RFA contract is due after next season, he will likely see an increase in his salary, even if he manages to keep his numbers similar. Or worse, he can go to arbitration meaning we only have one year left until he would most likely bolt as an UFA.

So the question is, if he doesn't start to show offensice improvement over this season or next, do you lock him up to another 3 year deal which will likely be in the 3.5-4 million per year range? Or do you go to arbitration, giving him one more year to step it up, thus making him untradable and pretty much un-resignable, meaning you'll lose him for nothing the following off-season?

If A Kost does not break the 30 goal plateau by the end of next season, I guarantee you he will be gone. Still as an RFA he will have some value. We will not be paying that kind of money for a mid 20 goal scorer. Mid 20 goal scorers are a dime a dozen, and can be filled by young players on affordable contracts.

Hey, I see what you see, and his upside is great. I don't want to see him become the next Leclair. I dispised that trade when it happened. However, now it's his potential vs output in regards to cap hit. And it's is nearing it's max.

I truly hope he hits 30+ this year, and leaves no doubt he'll be around for many years. But if he doesn't do it this year or next....

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10-22-2009, 12:05 PM
  #47
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Sergei could walk after this season and go to the KHL and Andrei has one year left and may do the same.
Sergei could walk to the khl NOW but he wants an nhl career. So does Andrei, not giving them away for a rental that doesn't really make us that much of a better team..

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10-22-2009, 12:14 PM
  #48
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Stupid idea. We would lose at every levels.

At this point, I would take A.Kostitsyn over Frolov. The guy is lazy while A.K. is just going through a confidence problem... and is improving.

S.K. is also a player I want on my team. When you manage to control a guy like that, it can be a great asset during a game.

So let's forget about trading those two players: they are keepers.

Expect S.K to come back to the NHL and Pacioretty to go down within two weeks.

I tend to agree with you except I think S.K. is gone. He's not playing for the Habs not after yesterday's melodrama.

As for this trade, how does it solve that final piece for the top 6 position?

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10-22-2009, 12:19 PM
  #49
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GTFO with Frolov.

No Doughty = No Deal!

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10-22-2009, 12:21 PM
  #50
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You fail to see the major difference in Leclair to AK, Leclair worked hard and knew what it took to win. AK doesn't have that same quality of commitment as Leclair did, AK wouldn't come back to haunt us and SK wouldn't either. They are two kids that are trouble on and off the ice and if they are fulltime NHLers elsewhere big deal, just get fair value for them and move on because they are not a big piece of the puzzle.
I was just using Leclair as an example, I could have used Ribeiro. I just meant that giving up on a player too soon can be a bad decision, just as not trading him and having the possibility of seeing him bust can be a bad decision too. All I am saying is that if you want to have a great team, you need to take risks. Just as trading both AK and SK for Frolov can be risky, as we can lose him for nothing via UFA or maybe we can sign him for 5 years and see him score at a PPG pace for 5 years.

If BG wants to play it safe, and get fair value for them, then we'll be losers forever. We won't get much for SK, for obvious reasons. And in return for Akost, either we will get a similar type of player (high risk/high reward), or just a 2nd liner who can score 20 goal (no more) and I definitely hope BG won't settle for that. BG is a winner, and I have faith. He won't be satisfied with an average team, and hopes that he keeps them both.

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