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"Loser" - 10.22.2009 - Nashville 6 at Ottawa 5 FINAL - OT

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10-23-2009, 01:50 PM
  #201
OpenWheel
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
It doesn't matter whose man it is. When Weber and Phillips are the only two guys in the slot, Weber can't just let him stand there undefended and then tell Erat "you blew your assignment" after Phillips scores. Weber needs to cover him, whether he's supposed to be Erat's mark or not. At the very least, he could have laid his stick down or stuck a skate out to deflect the pass, but he just stood there.
So it was Erat? Figures...

So, let me get this straight. Each time Erat is playing a man, Weber (or any defender) is supposed to double up, and never leave, the same man because he knows Erat is going to #### it up?

Actually, that makes sense now that I look at it that way.

Weber and Philips weren't the only two guys in the slot. Not when Weber checked. There was a Pred forward right there, who looked like he knew what he was doing on Philips, but didn't. He hosed Weber by acting as if he was playing him but let him skate right by. Which was about one stride as low as the forward already was when Weber looked.

I do think Weber could have found the man in time. But I still say he got fooked.

Thank God we had Weber in that game.

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10-23-2009, 02:35 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by OpenWheel View Post
So, let me get this straight. Each time Erat is playing a man, Weber (or any defender) is supposed to double up, and never leave, the same man because he knows Erat is going to #### it up?
You're about as straight as a circle. It has nothing to do with Erat's shoddy defensive play or "doubling up," whatever you mean by that. (It was actually Ward.) What I mean is that when, for example, Weber is guarding the crease, any player that comes into that area should be his top priority. You keep him from getting his blade on the puck.

If you watch the goal again, you'll see Ward peel off to cover Spezza who is coming into the slot. Weber sees Ward, and you would think he knows that there's somebody behind him since the other four players are all in plain view, but he just stands there instead of moving back to cover the open man. Alfredsson throws the puck to Phillips, and he has the puck in the net by the time Weber wakes up and reacts to the play. I'll concede that the team needs to communicate better, but it's all for naught if Weber isn't paying attention.

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10-23-2009, 03:08 PM
  #203
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A couple of observations from last nights game....
How did Dumont NOT get a game star! 5 points, and no star??
Erat and Legwand are still not producing, yet I guess because of the high salaries they still get ice time.
I like the Wilson Hornqvist combo, not sure who the other wing should be.
Not sure why O'Rielly still gets first line and power play. He is not hurting us there, but not producing either.
The veterans have made alot of huge mistakes each game, they have more experience, so there should be less patience...the rookies make a mistake and are cut back ice time.....Just some thoughts

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10-23-2009, 03:26 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue View Post
How did Dumont NOT get a game star! 5 points, and no star??
He was third star.


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Not sure why O'Rielly still gets first line and power play. He is not hurting us there, but not producing either.
Because nobody else can do it?

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10-23-2009, 03:29 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
You're about as straight as a circle. It has nothing to do with Erat's shoddy defensive play or "doubling up," whatever you mean by that. (It was actually Ward.) What I mean is that when, for example, Weber is guarding the crease, any player that comes into that area should be his top priority. You keep him from getting his blade on the puck.

If you watch the goal again, you'll see Ward peel off to cover Spezza who is coming into the slot. Weber sees Ward, and you would think he knows that there's somebody behind him since the other four players are all in plain view, but he just stands there instead of moving back to cover the open man. Alfredsson throws the puck to Phillips, and he has the puck in the net by the time Weber wakes up and reacts to the play. I'll concede that the team needs to communicate better, but it's all for naught if Weber isn't paying attention.
I'll look again, but I didn't see Ward (or Erat, or whoever, I went by what you said about Weber complaining to Erat) "peel off" to cover anyone. I saw him covering Philips and so Weber turned toward the puck. And whoever was on Philips just stood there like a bump on a log. And Weber, not being able to turn his head 180 degrees didn't know Philips had come free.

Yeah, I agree that Weber wasn't alert to the pass. I just assume he was screened and then maybe didn't want to put a stick on it if he was worried about risking knocking it into Rinne. Not sure why he made no play on the puck. But clearly, he did not expect, and had no idea, Philips was there. Because it was about two seconds from when he saw Philips covered to when the pass came through.

So, I can only assume he was supposed to double up (continue to shadow...watch...somebody already played by another) on anyone nearing the net even if they are covered. Because that's what you're saying. And maybe so. He really didn't need to skate where he did. The head on a swivel thing would have helped except he turned to fully face the puck.

Basically, if Ward hadn't been down low(ish) inside of Philips to begin with, and fooled Weber into thinking there was no backdoor, I'm positive Weber would have been on Philips like stink on ####. Or, maybe Weber flat didn't see him behind Ward. And if that's the case, yes he should have seen him.

Anyway, doesn't matter now. I'm sure Weber knows his role and if it's his mistake he'll get better. Not convinced the forward knew his role there. I'll go look again but when I last looked I didn't see anyone for the forward to be "peeling off" to cover. Not with three seconds left and the puck way over low on the side.

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10-23-2009, 03:42 PM
  #206
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[QUOTE=worstfaceoffmanever;21749041]He was third star.




Because nobody else can do it?[/QUOTE]

My apologies! The "ticker tape" on t.v. this morning ( can't remember which network) had Suter, Weber and Spezza as the three stars

Because nobody else can do what?

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10-23-2009, 03:56 PM
  #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OpenWheel View Post
I'll look again, but I didn't see Ward (or Erat, or whoever, I went by what you said about Weber complaining to Erat) "peel off" to cover anyone. I saw him covering Philips and so Weber turned toward the puck. And whoever was on Philips just stood there like a bump on a log. And Weber, not being able to turn his head 180 degrees didn't know Philips had come free.

<snipped for brevity>
Ward was covering Phillips as they moved into the zone, and then moved up from behind Weber to cover Spezza as he moved into the slot. Unless he has no peripheral vision whatsoever, Weber saw what Ward moving to cover Spezza.

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10-23-2009, 03:57 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by redwhiteandblue View Post
Because nobody else can do what?
Because nobody else can play first line minutes and power play time? Arnott's out, Legwand's struggling, and Wilson has yet to earn the confidence of the coaching staff.

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10-23-2009, 04:16 PM
  #209
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I havent really had time to give my observations but Ive always liked Erat and Legwand, but it may be time for them to go. I heard Crisp say Trotz should shorten the bench and play the veterans, and Erat and Legwand were out they and we got cycled on and scored on. Ugh they need a message sent.

Sulzer giveth and Sulzer take away, great shot on net on the first goal and absolutely brutal giveaway directly after.

Im loving Cody Franson, he is not a rock defensively and has some brain farts but is loads better than what I thought he would amount to and has a great shot.

Scatchard adds an element that has been missing from the team. A heart and soul player who will add toughness to this team.

Finally, not to take anything away from Ottawa coming back, but did anyone else think the high stick penalty on Sullivan to get the 5-3 and allow Ottawa to score was a "dive" on Kovolev's part? When I first saw it I thought no penalty, and I briefly saw the replay and it looked like Sully hit him in the hands and Kovolev jerked his head back and got the call.

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10-23-2009, 04:20 PM
  #210
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The high stick wasnt brutal, but all of the penalties were deserved.

Scatchard is the new Fiddler, he's gonna be around for a while I think. I also think it is a good thing for us right now.

Ive been an Erat and Legwand fan for a long time, but geez, along with Sully they were like a comboned -7 or something like that. Also, Dumont scored more points last night than that trio has all season.

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10-23-2009, 04:26 PM
  #211
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[QUOTE=burnlikestars;21749737]
Scatchard is the new Fiddler, he's gonna be around for a while I think. I also think it is a good thing for us right now.
QUOTE]

Scatchard is our Fiddler and I was going to compare him, but he is much grittier than Fiddler and I think he won't be a whipping boy for a while.

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10-23-2009, 04:53 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Ward was covering Phillips as they moved into the zone, and then moved up from behind Weber to cover Spezza as he moved into the slot. Unless he has no peripheral vision whatsoever, Weber saw what Ward moving to cover Spezza.
I just watched it a few more times, on the web highlights. And I can't see what you're saying at all. When Weber came out from behind the net Ward was skating from the half boards and was right in front of Phillips when Weber was facing that way. But as Weber curled around in front, toward the puck, Ward kept gliding the same direction and let Philips skate right behind him. Ward wasn't covering anyone or going to spot anyone. He just did nothing.

But I have to agree now. Weber saw Philips behind Ward. Just assuming Ward was enough interference and not checking again, with Philips in so close, was lame. It became his man as soon as Ward kept going. They both did little. If Ward had just slowed up, or anything... But he didn't. And other than the brief look Weber also ignored him. Why he didn't double check on where Philips (and Ward) was is beyond me.

Weber's man. And I have no idea why Weber froze like a deer in the headlights when the pass came through. But it was a pretty sweet feed. Right on the money.

I guess they both thought the game was over...


Last edited by OpenWheel: 10-23-2009 at 05:01 PM.
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10-23-2009, 05:05 PM
  #213
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Look, Shea Weber is my favorite player on the team, and possibly my favorite player in the entire league. He blew it on that play. It isn't his fault we went to overtime, but it IS his fault they scored that goal. If you are a defenseman right on top of the crease it is your job to make sure no one can get in that area to take a shot. Period. Weber was busy looking at the puck instead of looking to see where the fourth skater was. Maybe he went brain dead for a second, thought "power play", saw four guys, and just didn't think to check for the fifth. Probably not.

Doesn't matter now. We won the game on a goal from Weber. He redeemed himself, but he definitely needs to have as few of those mental lapses as possible.

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10-23-2009, 05:17 PM
  #214
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If you are a defenseman right on top of the crease it is your job to make sure no one can get in that area to take a shot. Period. Weber was busy looking at the puck instead of looking to see where the fourth skater was.
Yep. And by the video body language Weber agrees. He didn't even glance at Ward as if to place blame. He glances to the ceiling in an oh ### gesture. He knew it was his man.

My first view of it I had thought Ward and Philips had actually made slight contact and Ward just moved on out, but Philips was free the whole time.

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10-23-2009, 08:02 PM
  #215
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Scatchard is the new Fiddler, he's gonna be around for a while I think. I also think it is a good thing for us right now.
That has nothing to do with the fact that he wears 38, does it?

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10-24-2009, 01:55 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
That has nothing to do with the fact that he wears 38, does it?
coincidence

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