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HNIC could start dropping Leafs games if they continue to lose

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Old
10-24-2009, 02:24 AM
  #51
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Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Toronto doesn't choose the scheduele, CBC does. CBC paid the NHL 80 million for HNIC Canadian team rights and they get a say in the scheduele as a result.
You mean CBC and the Leafs aren't the same thing?

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10-24-2009, 02:33 AM
  #52
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and I wouldn't blame them one bit.

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10-24-2009, 03:16 AM
  #53
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There is no proof that the Leafs are the most followed Canadian team (outside their respective province) in the NHL. But by focusing coverage on the Leafs surely will increase the likelihood of such a claim to be true. Lets not also forget the amount of ex-pat Montrealers that have fled over the years when the economy and political climate was far from being stable. The other Canadian team in the east is just not big enough of a market imo, sorry sens fan.

I think when both the Leafs and Habs play at home, they should consider who they're playing of course (like, pens get dibs) and other such factors. However, if all is equal, say both teams are playing at home vs Florida and Tampa, there is still one more factor that you can consider...

Atmosphere.

Let's compare the product of a home game in Toronto vs a Home game in Montreal.

In one rink, you can hear the cash register from the concession stands, in the other rink, you have possibly the loudest and most emotional fans in the league.

Toronto is the most boring sold-out arena in the NHL (not a dis, just reality). Montreal sells-out too, and there 21 thousand fans are REALLY into it, even in the lower bowl. There is also cultural influence that leads Montreal fans to be more passionate when cheering, celebrating... like the fans or not, it still is crowd energy, and that's entertaining.

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10-24-2009, 03:21 AM
  #54
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GOOD, its about time the Leafs get the same treatment as everyone else, none of this special crap

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10-24-2009, 03:34 AM
  #55
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GOOD, its about time the Leafs get the same treatment as everyone else, none of this special crap
We are judged by how we treat the weakest in society. - Gandhi?

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10-24-2009, 04:06 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Atmosphere.

Let's compare the product of a home game in Toronto vs a Home game in Montreal.

In one rink, you can hear the cash register from the concession stands, in the other rink, you have possibly the loudest and most emotional fans in the league.

Toronto is the most boring sold-out arena in the NHL (not a dis, just reality). Montreal sells-out too, and there 21 thousand fans are REALLY into it, even in the lower bowl. There is also cultural influence that leads Montreal fans to be more passionate when cheering, celebrating... like the fans or not, it still is crowd energy, and that's entertaining.

It's no secret the price of tickets is why the ACC is so quiet. I'm sure if Hab fans paid the same you might not see the same types of fans in the arena.

NHL ticket prices, 2009-2010:
League Average $51.41
Anaheim $43.50
Atlanta $48.51
Boston $54.94
Buffalo $36.43
Calgary $59.73
Carolina $38.38
Chicago $46.80
Colorado $40.62
Columbus $47.66
Dallas $35.66
Detroit $46.60
Edmonton $59.71
Florida $48.76
Los Angeles $47.20
Minnesota $61.28
Montreal $72.18
Nashville $48.36
New Jersey $48.05
NY Rangers $58.57
NY Islanders $51.46
Ottawa $52.77
Philadelphia $60.25
Phoenix $37.45
Pittsburgh $55.55
San Jose $43.07
St. Louis $37.90
Tampa Bay $35.76
toronto $117.49
Vancouver $62.05
Washington $44.75

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Old
10-24-2009, 06:54 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by habfaninvictoria View Post
Yes, and that population lives in the TORONTO area, hence my suggestion for a regional broadcast.

Yes there are many Leaf fans outside of Toronto, but I would argue that there are at least as many if not more Habs fans across the country.
I agree, but that population is split due to language and another national network that caters to their needs. Are you intentionally ignoring this? Have you seen the figures RDS draws? They're impressive-- Montreal has a huge following, but we're talking about TV here, and for CBC, Montreal is not as good of a draw as the Leafs because there is a severe split.

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I would suggest, sir, that it is you that are being dense, or at least not willing to see another point of view.
I'm sorry, but the moment you get into the "CBC is being used as a tool to recruit Leaf fans" is the moment you go from rational to crazed. CBC cashes in on the Leafs, not the other way around.

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The CBC's mandate is to promote all things CANADIAN, not all things Torontonian. Your argument about RDS is laughable, only hab fans have any interest in watching their telecasts
The argument for or against the Leafs is not really in juxtaposition with the Western teams, because generally the Western teams are playing in a different time slot. Two teams remain-- the Sens and the Habs. The Sens get screwed in terms of national exposure, but their fanbase is rather small. Montreal is gigantic, but again, catered to.

It's worth noting that Quebec/Ontario alone are ~20M of the population. Add the other Eastern provinces and you're comfortably at two thirds of the population. The Eastern time slot SHOULD be dominated by Eastern teams. The Western timeslot should be dominated by Western teams, and insofar as I am aware, that is indeed the case. So wtf is the problem?
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The CBC and Leafs deserve each other.... the rest of the country deserves better.
Yawn.


Last edited by Platapie: 10-24-2009 at 07:07 AM.
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Old
10-24-2009, 09:22 AM
  #58
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Great, just bloody great!

Lets add a little bit more pressure on the point, just what our BOG needs, more motivation to push a rushed retool on Burkie.

This HNIC is one of the pressure points that motivates our BOG not to go with rebuilds. Pride and $$$$.

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10-24-2009, 10:59 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
It's no secret the price of tickets is why the ACC is so quiet. I'm sure if Hab fans paid the same you might not see the same types of fans in the arena.

NHL ticket prices, 2009-2010:
League Average $51.41
Anaheim $43.50
Atlanta $48.51
Boston $54.94
Buffalo $36.43
Calgary $59.73
Carolina $38.38
Chicago $46.80
Colorado $40.62
Columbus $47.66
Dallas $35.66
Detroit $46.60
Edmonton $59.71
Florida $48.76
Los Angeles $47.20
Minnesota $61.28
Montreal $72.18
Nashville $48.36
New Jersey $48.05
NY Rangers $58.57
NY Islanders $51.46
Ottawa $52.77
Philadelphia $60.25
Phoenix $37.45
Pittsburgh $55.55
San Jose $43.07
St. Louis $37.90
Tampa Bay $35.76
toronto $117.49
Vancouver $62.05
Washington $44.75
What's the average ticket price in upper bowl in Toronto? I would say montreal is probably $40... I really think outside of premium seating, the discrepancy is not large enough to justify such a difference in crowd involvement/noise. anyways, it's night and day to compare the two, and whatever the reason, it's not likely going to change either... the fact is the passion and involvement is expressed a lot differently in Quebecois culture than it is with Ontario culture.

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Old
10-24-2009, 11:07 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
There is no proof that the Leafs are the most followed Canadian team (outside their respective province) in the NHL. But by focusing coverage on the Leafs surely will increase the likelihood of such a claim to be true. Lets not also forget the amount of ex-pat Montrealers that have fled over the years when the economy and political climate was far from being stable. The other Canadian team in the east is just not big enough of a market imo, sorry sens fan.

I think when both the Leafs and Habs play at home, they should consider who they're playing of course (like, pens get dibs) and other such factors. However, if all is equal, say both teams are playing at home vs Florida and Tampa, there is still one more factor that you can consider...

Atmosphere.

Let's compare the product of a home game in Toronto vs a Home game in Montreal.

In one rink, you can hear the cash register from the concession stands, in the other rink, you have possibly the loudest and most emotional fans in the league.

Toronto is the most boring sold-out arena in the NHL (not a dis, just reality). Montreal sells-out too, and there 21 thousand fans are REALLY into it, even in the lower bowl. There is also cultural influence that leads Montreal fans to be more passionate when cheering, celebrating... like the fans or not, it still is crowd energy, and that's entertaining.
Who's reality?

Since you've been to all the arena's why don't you rank them for us.

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10-24-2009, 11:12 AM
  #61
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People need to watch other teams on Center Ice and they would realize quiet arenas are the norm. The Carolinas and Montreals are actually the exception.

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10-24-2009, 11:20 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by ACC1224 View Post
Who's reality?

Since you've been to all the arena's why don't you rank them for us.
I said "sold out arenas", yes Toronto is the most boring.

Ok, there is no refute you can make for the ACC in this respect unless you're in denial about the crowd energy.

Anyways, lets have a look.

Original six teams:

Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, NY Rangers

OK - they all "more or less" sell out every game - Toronto is by far the most boring crowd.

Lets look at other Canadian teams:

Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa, Vancouver

Sorry, Toronto loses again.

Other notable mentions, Washington, Minnesota, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh...

Obviously having a good team helps, in the case of the Caps for example... but I really don't think that the ACC can ever evolve into what they have in Washington right now... of course that's my opinion basing it on over 20 years of following hockey.

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10-24-2009, 11:20 AM
  #63
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Ratings speak for themselves. If CBC decides to drop Toronto for other teams that's fine as long as the ratings show that people would rather watch Ottawa or Montreal over Toronto. CBC isn't stupid. They'll do what's best for their business and most times that's keeping Toronto in the limelight, regardless of how bad they are playing.

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10-24-2009, 11:24 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ccliquer View Post
People need to watch other teams on Center Ice and they would realize quiet arenas are the norm. The Carolinas and Montreals are actually the exception.
Repeatedly, when watching a game on tv (regardless of which rink it`s in), if the home team is losing, the crowd is quiet. Then if the home team starts to get back in to the game, the noise from the crowd starts to pick up. The announcers will invariably say "The fans are getting back in to the game..``. Happens all of the time. Happens at the ACC. Over the past few years, the Leafs have struggled at home. Give the crowd something to cheer about and they will. I haven`t been to every arena, by a long shot, but I`ve been to GM Place, Rexall Place and the ACC for hockey games. Frankly, I didn`t notice much difference between the atmosphere at those games. It seemed more to depend on if the home was winning or losing.

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10-24-2009, 11:24 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Ok, there is no refute you can make for the ACC in this respect unless you're in denial about the crowd energy.

Anyways, lets have a look.

Original six teams:

Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Chicago, Detroit, NY Rangers

OK - they all "more or less" sell out every game - Toronto is by far the most boring crowd.

Lets look at other Canadian teams:

Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa, Vancouver

Sorry, Toronto loses again.

Other notable mentions, Washington, Minnesota, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh...

Obviously having a good team helps, in the case of the Caps for example... but I really don't think that the ACC can ever evolve into what they have in Washington right now... of course that's my opinion basing it on over 20 years of following hockey.
I've never been to most of the arenas you've listed so I'll take your evaluation at face value.

Let's not forget though that many of those teams had next to no attendance up until a few years ago. Maybe that is a good thing because most of those teams are pretty good and they have to build a good team to fill the seats. But teams like Boston, Chicago, Washington, and Pittsburgh all had trouble getting fans to come out. Detroit still doesn't even fill the rink and they are one of the best teams (economy has hurt them although I believe their paid attendance is at capacity).

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10-24-2009, 11:30 AM
  #66
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I've never been to most of the arenas you've listed so I'll take your evaluation at face value.
Neither as he and it's pretty obvious too because he listed Vancouver.

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10-24-2009, 11:31 AM
  #67
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Neither as he and it's pretty obvious too because he listed Vancouver.
You're saying that a leafs crowd is louder than a Canucks crowd?

Come-on man, don't make yourself look silly.

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10-24-2009, 11:33 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
You're saying that a leafs crowd is louder than a Canucks crowd?

Come-on man, don't make yourself look silly.
To say either of them are loud is retarded.

The only reason there will be noise tonight is because half of the crowd will be Leaf fans. Any other night, especially if it's a non-Canadian team, it's as quiet as any other arena in a league.

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10-24-2009, 11:34 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by ComrieFanatic View Post
I've never been to most of the arenas you've listed so I'll take your evaluation at face value.

Let's not forget though that many of those teams had next to no attendance up until a few years ago. Maybe that is a good thing because most of those teams are pretty good and they have to build a good team to fill the seats. But teams like Boston, Chicago, Washington, and Pittsburgh all had trouble getting fans to come out. Detroit still doesn't even fill the rink and they are one of the best teams (economy has hurt them although I believe their paid attendance is at capacity).
We're comparing crowds that sell-out.

Whether the product on the ice is stellar or not does not change the fact that every seat has a bum farting on it.

If the product sucks, than high involvement crowds will react in ways to get the team motivated ( Go Leafs Go) or by showing displeasure and emotion.

Just sitting there like lame ducks is Toronto.

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10-24-2009, 11:36 AM
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Edmonton is the loudest arena in the league. They also almost lost their franchise at one point.

Noise in the building is a weak argument.

The amount and consistency of people in the seats, and TV ratings are evidence for a strong argument. Also, if you look at streaming games, the Leaf games consistently have the most viewers on weeknights (when the games aren't shown nationally).

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10-24-2009, 11:37 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
We're comparing crowds that sell-out.

Whether the product on the ice is stellar or not does not change the fact that every seat has a bum farting on it.

If the product sucks, than high involvement crowds will react in ways to get the team motivated ( Go Leafs Go) or by showing displeasure and emotion.

Just sitting there like lame ducks is Toronto.
When the Leafs were in the playoffs the building was loud. The building was also loud for the last ten minutes of the game the other night as the team was boo'd off the ice.

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10-24-2009, 11:41 AM
  #72
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Edmonton is the loudest arena in the league. They also almost lost their franchise at one point.

Noise in the building is a weak argument.

The amount and consistency of people in the seats, and TV ratings are evidence for a strong argument. Also, if you look at streaming games, the Leaf games consistently have the most viewers on weeknights (when the games aren't shown nationally).
Just because the Leafs are on tv nationally does not mean only Leaf fans will watch the game.

If all is equal, which game would you rather watch, an empty rink in Florida or a sold out rink in Philadelphia?

Atmosphere is HUGE, especially when one has no rooting interest.

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10-24-2009, 11:42 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
Just because the Leafs are on tv nationally does not mean only Leaf fans will watch the game.

If all is equal, which game would you rather watch, an empty rink in Florida or a sold out rink in Philadelphia?

Atmosphere is HUGE, especially when one has no rooting interest.
What are you even talking about? Are you telling me when someone turns on the TV, the deciding factor in whether they watch the game or not is how loud the building is?

You're just making things up.

I see no incentive for change.

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Old
10-24-2009, 11:43 AM
  #74
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I think they are talking about doing what they did last year. Instead of locking the Leafs game into the 4:00 PM slot for the national game they will show the Leafs in Southern Ontario (regardless of who they are playing and what the match up is) and make a judgment call on which is the BEST MATCH UP to show to the rest of the country at 4:00 PM. It only makes sense. For example, if the Senators are in a playoff position in March and playing the Capitals and the Leafs are sitting in 14th in the East playing the Lightning they will show the Sens game nationally.

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10-24-2009, 11:56 AM
  #75
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I think they are talking about doing what they did last year. Instead of locking the Leafs game into the 4:00 PM slot for the national game they will show the Leafs in Southern Ontario (regardless of who they are playing and what the match up is) and make a judgment call on which is the BEST MATCH UP to show to the rest of the country at 4:00 PM. It only makes sense. For example, if the Senators are in a playoff position in March and playing the Capitals and the Leafs are sitting in 14th in the East playing the Lightning they will show the Sens game nationally.
Did CBC headquarters move out west last night?

Although it would be pretty interesting if they set all of their clocks within the CBC building to PDT, kind of a Bizarro World type scenario.

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