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2009/10 - Lines Discussion - (ES/PP/PK) - Part II

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Old
10-21-2009, 09:05 AM
  #301
JXC
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Originally Posted by Pancho Lefty View Post
should be:

JvR-Richards-Giroux
Hartnell-Carter-Briere
Gagne-Pyorola-Asham
Carcillo-Powe-Lappy
I love it.

I have a hard time understanding why nearly EVERYONE puts Gagne on the top line. So far this year he has kind of, ummm, sucked.

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10-21-2009, 03:51 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Heh, Giroux is wasted on the top line wing with two of our best offensive threats, but he's not wasted getting third line time with a rookie and a scrub. Hilarious.
Totally agree. Not many seem to remember that at the start of the season Giroux played 10 mins without much PP time. I really have hard time understanding how this is benefiting the team.

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10-21-2009, 05:39 PM
  #303
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I think the real problem is John Stevens (haha, no I'm only joking!). The real problem, which I didn't think was going to be a problem in the beginning of the year, is the need for a third line winger. Because of the strength of JVR and Giroux, there really can't be a traditional third liner playing on that line. Powe, Asham, Lappy, etc are not the same type of player as JVR and Giroux. The extra winger will slow down and mess w/ the chemistry of them and won't be able to keep up. I thought Powe or Asham would work, but that clearly is not working. There needs to be some kind of move made to acquire that third winger. JVR and Giroux are wasting away on that line. The Flyers should have went after Sykora. That would have been a good line. Ugh.

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Old
10-21-2009, 06:17 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I think the real problem is John Stevens (haha, no I'm only joking!). The real problem, which I didn't think was going to be a problem in the beginning of the year, is the need for a third line winger. Because of the strength of JVR and Giroux, there really can't be a traditional third liner playing on that line. Powe, Asham, Lappy, etc are not the same type of player as JVR and Giroux. The extra winger will slow down and mess w/ the chemistry of them and won't be able to keep up. I thought Powe or Asham would work, but that clearly is not working. There needs to be some kind of move made to acquire that third winger. JVR and Giroux are wasting away on that line. The Flyers should have went after Sykora. That would have been a good line. Ugh.
JVR has 4 pts in 4 games. Giroux has 3 pts in 6 games (a couple of those with Richards and Gagne). To claim that they are "wasting away" is a bit of a stretch. JVR is almost assuredly ahead of the pace you're going to get from him, and Giroux is only just off what you should expect from him this year (50-60 pts would be a fantastic sophomore year for him).

No offense, but this post is right in line with the reality check this organization needs: having 9 guys that can play a top 6 role just isn't going to happen with any regularity under the salary cap. So, what you need to do is adjust to that and define roles. We can easily make two very good scoring lines. Do that. Then figure out how to construct a reliable third line that can play 10-15 min. a night (and, yes, JVR will be on that line).

And, sure, we could have gone after someone like Sykora, but that would have pretty much eliminated our cap cushion at that point.

I also think we need to revise our thinking about Powe/Asham/Lappy and slowing down the third line here. Powe can skate with anyone on this team, and Asham is no liability skating either. Lappy is probably the slowest, but he's competent. The guy on that wing doesn't have to be able to keep up speed/skill-wise with the other two (look at Knuble, he's made a career out of not keeping up), he just needs to help out with the physical game and in the corners and chip in.

Of course, I would much rather see us just go with the super scoring lines, and then see if Pyorala can successfully manage the third line center role with JVR and someone on the right. JVR will probably not get as good of numbers playing with that group, but forcing him to develop his checking game won't be the worst thing in the world for his overall development. Ultimately, it is the third line center that I think we're going to need to make a deal for, not another wing.

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Old
10-21-2009, 08:09 PM
  #305
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I wouldn't mind making a move for a center either and moving Giroux up. That does make more sense than my plan. Haha. Also go Phillies!

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Old
10-21-2009, 08:38 PM
  #306
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The Gagne & Richards line needs a physical net presence that Giroux cannot provide. I don't like seeing Asham there, but I guess it can't hurt to give him a chance to prove himself. I like Giroux centering the third line with JVR as it gives us a deeper offensive lineup. I really wish the Flyers could trade for a guy like Ryane Clowe or to play with Gags and Richie. Losing Knuble is really hurting that line as they don't have anybody to screen the goalie or draw the defensemen away from the boards and towards the net.

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Old
10-24-2009, 03:40 AM
  #307
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He's gone MAD. MAD I TELL YOU!

http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landi...985&feedID=704

New lines:
Now he has Claude Giroux centering slump-ridden Simon Gagne and Ian Laperriere; “Captain Silence” – that’s Mike Richards, who is not talking the media - is centering slump-ridden Scott Hartnell and Arron Asham; Jeff Carter is centering rookie James van Riemsdyk and Danny Briere.

The fourth line remains unchanged: Mika Pyorala centering Dan Carcillo and Darroll Powe.

I love it. I want to see the Panthers decimated by this team.

Regards,
Rick

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Old
10-24-2009, 11:18 AM
  #308
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What do you say if Parent ends up 7th?

That 3rd pairing against the Bruins was very good, they defended well and created several scoring chances. Stevens may not change it if they continue to play like this.

Parent has struggled a little, and he's a defensive player like OKT. Syvret as a puck-mover is an ideal partner for OKT.

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10-24-2009, 01:01 PM
  #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
What do you say if Parent ends up 7th?

That 3rd pairing against the Bruins was very good, they defended well and created several scoring chances. Stevens may not change it if they continue to play like this.

Parent has struggled a little, and he's a defensive player like OKT. Syvret as a puck-mover is an ideal partner for OKT.
That would completly destroy his confidence and his play. He is only 22, and sitting him would be a terrible idea.

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Old
10-24-2009, 01:20 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
What do you say if Parent ends up 7th?

That 3rd pairing against the Bruins was very good, they defended well and created several scoring chances. Stevens may not change it if they continue to play like this.

Parent has struggled a little, and he's a defensive player like OKT. Syvret as a puck-mover is an ideal partner for OKT.
Parent is a big part of this teams future on defense...he has the potential to be a top-end defensive defenseman that can help anchor the 2nd pairing, or be an excellent top pairing partner to a more offensive player.

Putting him in the pressbox for two marginal NHL players would be among the dumber things this organization has done in recent memory. Not to mention, he's better defensively than both OKT and Syvret.

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10-24-2009, 01:29 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
What do you say if Parent ends up 7th?

That 3rd pairing against the Bruins was very good, they defended well and created several scoring chances. Stevens may not change it if they continue to play like this.

Parent has struggled a little, and he's a defensive player like OKT. Syvret as a puck-mover is an ideal partner for OKT.
Parent will be back in the lineup as soon as he's healthy. OKT and Syvret will continue to rotate as the 6th guy unless one proves himself over the other. You cannot sit a 22 year-old defenseman like that. Also, he's better than OKT and Syvret regardless of how well the latter two played last game.

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10-24-2009, 01:42 PM
  #312
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Problem is, Parent doesn't work very well with OKT or Syvret, it's what works that counts. Maybe we should be prepared for a little surprise, don't do the mistake and think Parent is right back in just because you like him better.

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10-24-2009, 01:45 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Problem is, Parent doesn't work very well with OKT or Syvret, it's what works that counts. Maybe we should be prepared for a little surprise, don't do the mistake and think Parent is right back in just because you like him better.
Nothing against OKT, but do you know much about Ryan Parent? What he's done/accomplished in the past and what he's projected to be in the future?

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10-24-2009, 01:54 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Problem is, Parent doesn't work very well with OKT or Syvret, it's what works that counts. Maybe we should be prepared for a little surprise, don't do the mistake and think Parent is right back in just because you like him better.
I, for one, don't want to see this team basing its personnel decisions on something as ridiculous as "who's the better player?"

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Old
10-24-2009, 02:15 PM
  #315
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Nothing against OKT, but do you know much about Ryan Parent? What he's done/accomplished in the past and what he's projected to be in the future?
No I've only followed his play this season. But when you say that it sounds like he might have some value in a trade

I have nothing against Parent either. But we have to face it, if OKT-Syvret continue to play great, Parent will not fit in anymore and he will become a fifth wheel on the wagon.

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10-24-2009, 02:17 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
No I've only followed his play this season. But when you say that it sounds like he might have some value in a trade

I have nothing against Parent either. But we have to face it, if OKT-Syvret continue to play great, Parent will not fit in anymore and he will become a fifth wheel on the wagon.
Wow.

You're not going to make yourself any friends here with posts like that.

I understand you pulling for your friend, I'd probably do the same...but to vote Parent off the island after one game -- is board suicide.

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10-24-2009, 02:23 PM
  #317
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No I've only followed his play this season. But when you say that it sounds like he might have some value in a trade

I have nothing against Parent either. But we have to face it, if OKT-Syvret continue to play great, Parent will not fit in anymore and he will become a fifth wheel on the wagon.
Hey bandwagon fan, leave the talk of trading prospects to the people that have supported the team for more than 7 games of a single season. Ryan Parent will be crucial to the flyers for a great deal of years because he's a pure shutdown defenseman who will be cheap. Aka jason smith.

OKT is a seventh defenseman who is a fill in for injured players. He has had a single good game for the o&b on the third line. Parent was forced to play top line minutes last year and looked comfortable.

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10-24-2009, 02:28 PM
  #318
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No I've only followed his play this season. But when you say that it sounds like he might have some value in a trade

I have nothing against Parent either. But we have to face it, if OKT-Syvret continue to play great, Parent will not fit in anymore and he will become a fifth wheel on the wagon.
Christ.

Ryan Parent is a 1st round draft pick. He was the prime piece of the Forsberg trade as far as I'm concerned. He's a smooth skating, defensive defenseman. He's young. He's cheap. He's the type of player you build your defense around in the salary cap age.

OKT and Syvret had ONE good game. Syvret spent last year in the AHL behind Parent on the depth chart, and OKT is here on a one-year deal as a depth defenseman.

Coburn has been terrible this year. Should we dump him now because OKT and Syvret played well against Boston?

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10-24-2009, 02:30 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Wow.

You're not going to make yourself any friends here with posts like that.

I understand you pulling for your friend, I'd probably do the same...but to vote Parent off the island after one game -- is board suicide.
Then I should be dead several times, and there are a few posters in here I don't take seriously anymore...to put it that way.

It's a suggestion, I'm not voting off Parent, only saying this could happen if the two playing now continue to be the better 3rd pairing.

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10-24-2009, 02:46 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Wolfy View Post
Then I should be dead several times, and there are a few posters in here I don't take seriously anymore...to put it that way.

It's a suggestion, I'm not voting off Parent, only saying this could happen if the two playing now continue to be the better 3rd pairing.
OKT shifts the other night: 11.58 EV, 0.00 PP, 0.00 PK
Syvret ... : 14.18 EV, 0.00 PP, 0.00 PK

Parent against Anaheim: 7.11 EV, 0.00 PP, 3.54 PK
OKT played 3.28 in that game.

Parent against Pitt: 12.08 EV, 0.00 PP, 2.42 PK
OKT against Pitt: 9.55 EV, 0.07 PP, 0.04 PK

Replacing Parent with one of OKT-Syvret while they are not receiving any PK time isn't even a debatable point. Should also be made aware of the fact that Parent was essentially playing top pairing even strength minutes last year paired with Timonen.

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10-24-2009, 02:52 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
OKT shifts the other night: 11.58 EV, 0.00 PP, 0.00 PK
Syvret ... : 14.18 EV, 0.00 PP, 0.00 PK

Parent against Anaheim: 7.11 EV, 0.00 PP, 3.54 PK
OKT played 3.28 in that game.

Parent against Pitt: 12.08 EV, 0.00 PP, 2.42 PK
OKT against Pitt: 9.55 EV, 0.07 PP, 0.04 PK

Replacing Parent with one of OKT-Syvret while they are not receiving any PK time isn't even a debatable point. Should also be made aware of the fact that Parent was essentially playing top pairing even strength minutes last year paired with Timonen.
Something I wouldn't be shocked to see again this year if Timonen and Coburn continue to struggle (the pairing, not necessarily the top line minutes). I wouldn't do it right away, but if we're 15-20 games in and that pairing still isn't working, I think we could very well see:

Pronger - Carle
Parent - Timonen
Coburn - OKT/Syvret

It would keep Coburn off the ice when the opponent's big guns are out there so he can attempt to figure things out.

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10-24-2009, 02:56 PM
  #322
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Something I wouldn't be shocked to see again this year if Timonen and Coburn continue to struggle (the pairing, not necessarily the top line minutes). I wouldn't do it right away, but if we're 15-20 games in and that pairing still isn't working, I think we could very well see:

Pronger - Carle
Parent - Timonen
Coburn - OKT/Syvret

It would keep Coburn off the ice when the opponent's big guns are out there so he can attempt to figure things out.
I'm not too stressed by Coburn yet...he did the same crap last year, and then turned it on. May just be a slow starter...which would be aggravating if it really is a year-to-year thing, but what can ya do? When he's on his game, he's very good.

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10-24-2009, 04:38 PM
  #323
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It's good that OKT-Syvret played well, but The orginization is high on Parent, as they should be. It gives Parent time to heal, but it won't keep him out of the lineup.

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10-25-2009, 11:43 AM
  #324
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I'm not too stressed by Coburn yet...he did the same crap last year, and then turned it on. May just be a slow starter...which would be aggravating if it really is a year-to-year thing, but what can ya do? When he's on his game, he's very good.
Oh, absolutely. Like I said, I wouldn't do this yet, but if his struggles go on too long I'd start to think about it and I expect Stevens will start to think about sooner than me.

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Old
10-25-2009, 10:47 PM
  #325
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Please God, separate Timmonen and Coburn... they are not working and are killing my fantasy teams +/-... sorry... but anyways I watched parts of the game and they played horridly together.... something needs to be done.. maybe switch up Carle and Coburn... see if Pronger can teach Coburn how to get his game back together like he did with Carle?

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