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Fire Paul Holmgren Thread (and related front office screwups) - 09/10 Edition

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Old
10-28-2009, 06:53 PM
  #51
Claude Giroux
 
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I thought about it, but I don't think so. Pronger is almost a once in a generation guy, I know a couple others feel differently, but he has been everything I expected and more. Look at what we gave up.

Lupul - Streak scorer, good 2nd liner, not an ideal 1st line guy.

Sbisa - A good prospect, but I think most of us see him as a No.3 ceiling, I don't know if he'll be a top pairing guy ever.

2 No.1s - They should be in the late 20s anyways.

You got to give something to get something, Pronger has 8 points in 10 games, he's easily been the best player on the team, and the change in Carle is unbelievable. Pronger's playing at a Norris level and he will for the next 3-4 years at least.

The contract is another story which is why it's in the undecided part, but I have no regrets about the trade so far.
I loved the trade as soon as I heard it (maybe because Pronger is my favorite player).

He does everything.

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10-28-2009, 06:53 PM
  #52
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Carle trade created the cap mess last year even if it was good value

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10-28-2009, 06:55 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Hovercraft View Post
Carle trade created the cap mess last year even if it was good value
I'd say insisting on bringing an unhealthy Jones back off of LTIR so he could play on 1 hip was the real problem honestly. Give me Carle at 3.4 over Jones at 2.75 every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

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10-28-2009, 07:09 PM
  #54
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Perhaps some of these trades have been justified, but now that JVR and Giroux are with the big club, we have no good prospects. I don't think there's a single guy on that list I'd rate above a 7.0C to use HF terms.

In the next 2 drafts, we'll be missing a 1st, both 2nds, and a 3rd as well. You have to have young studs to remain competitive in the NHL. I seriously worry about this team in 4 years when we aren't going to be able to afford JVR, Carter, Richie, Giroux, and Briere at the salaries and they have already or are going to command because the odds are fairly strong that we simply won't be able to keep everyone because of the cap and then not have anyone to replace them.

Our prospect pool right now is extremely underwhelming and due to some moronic moves by Homer (I'd be feeling better with both 2nds right now), we aren't going to have the picks to replenish it.
You underrate Marshall and Bourdon.

Also, we don't necessarily have "first rate" prospects anymore with JVR and Giroux out of the system, but a lot of the players in it could very easily have strong NHL careers without costing a lot of money.

Giroux, JVR, Richards, Carter, and Briere will all be on the roster four years from now. A group of cheap complimentary forwards will be around them. That's what the Flyers have in their line-up, and that's what our prospect pool is filled with.

With Coburn slumping we do need to re-examine this future top pairing defenseman thing a bit, but it can wait a couple of years unless Timonen and Pronger have turned into Rathje and Hatcher.

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10-28-2009, 07:45 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Clarke didn't even know Giroux's name when he picked him, so I strongly doubt he was that involved in the draft process.

And I mean, look at the prospect pool now.

Forwards:

Maroon - Huge wild-card.
Nodl - Done nothing but regress unfortunately.
Matsumoto - Complimentary guy at best.
Kaspar - Extreme long shot.
Rinaldo - No NHL future.
Kalsinki - 4th liner
Legein - Wild-card.

D-Men:

Marshall - Probably a No.5 ceiling and keep in mind, while I like the guy, we traded away a 3rd to go up and get him.
Bourdon - Still a ways to go, wild-card.
Lehtivuori - Unknown at this point.
Bodrov - Going backwards fast.
Bartulis - Not positive he has an NHL future.

Goalies:

Ericsson - Interesting, but unproven
Morrison - See above
DeSerres - On his way to being a bust.

Perhaps some of these trades have been justified, but now that JVR and Giroux are with the big club, we have no good prospects. I don't think there's a single guy on that list I'd rate above a 7.0C to use HF terms.

In the next 2 drafts, we'll be missing a 1st, both 2nds, and a 3rd as well. You have to have young studs to remain competitive in the NHL. I seriously worry about this team in 4 years when we aren't going to be able to afford JVR, Carter, Richie, Giroux, and Briere at the salaries and they have already or are going to command because the odds are fairly strong that we simply won't be able to keep everyone because of the cap and then not have anyone to replace them.

Our prospect pool right now is extremely underwhelming and due to some moronic moves by Homer (I'd be feeling better with both 2nds right now), we aren't going to have the picks to replenish it.

I know i'm on my own, but I still think, Rinaldo has an NHL future. I've actually seen him play a couple of times. And I LOVED
him.

And anyway: How can prospects be "proven"?!

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10-28-2009, 09:20 PM
  #56
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ask any gm, head coach, or scout worth their weight, and they will tell you that a defensemen takes time to nurture.

you cant go a few days without hearing about it. only a few break out of the draft and start. ray bourqe, mark howe. orr, randy (yes the coach) carlyle, kevin lowe and niedermeyer off the top of my head

does anyone know how much marshall excelled for the remparts? i suggest you go look. your about to write off a tenacious defender who plays that gritty style most of you love.

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10-28-2009, 10:58 PM
  #57
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First off, with Parent being out Jones becomes our 5th best dman, THAT'S why he was recalled (actually, he was only recalled because Gagne is on LTIR but he'll still be better than the current guys we have on our bottom pairing).

I can't believe some of you guys. I've always been one of the most critical fans of Randy Jones but he's certainly better than Svyret and OTK. My advice is that you don't let blind hate taint you into NOT wanting to ice the best possible team we can out there.

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10-28-2009, 11:01 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
First off, with Parent being out Jones becomes our 5th best dman, THAT'S why he was recalled (actually, he was only recalled because Gagne is on LTIR but he'll still be better than the current guys we have on our bottom pairing).

I can't believe some of you guys. I've always been one of the most critical fans of Randy Jones but he's certainly better than Svyret and OTK. My advice is that you don't let blind hate taint you into NOT wanting to ice the best possible team we can out there.
You're completely ignoring the point by focusing on comparing Jones to the other guys. There is NO doubt that Jones should be on this team on talent alone. He wasn't because of the salary cap.

If he gets claimed and we are saddled with 1.375M of our very precious cap space...that's a GM blunder of epic proportions in a season we are actively attempting to compete for a Cup.

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10-28-2009, 11:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You're completely ignoring the point by focusing on comparing Jones to the other guys. There is NO doubt that Jones should be on this team on talent alone. He wasn't because of the salary cap.

If he gets claimed and we are saddled with 1.375M of our very precious cap space...that's a GM blunder of epic proportions in a season we are actively attempting to compete for a Cup.
You are mistaken. We have the rom to eat that 1.375m cap hit and maintain the same opening day roster we had once Gagne comes back. Yes, we'd have to differ some of the ELC SPA bonuses until next year (IF they are even reached) but we CAN still keep the same roster. It's not quite the blunder everyone is rioting about.

You can bet your ass that if Jones getting claimed would have meant that we couldn't bring back Gagne once he's healed (ala Briere last year) then there is no way in hell that Homer would have recalled him. I also believe that some team should grab him for just 1.375m cap hit.

If Jones gets claimed then fine, it sucks but we can deal with it. If he doesn't then we are instantly much better on defense and once Gagne comes back then we can either trade Jones at that point or just send him back down to make some cap space.

Keep this in mind too guys, with Gagne out we have about 5.5 mil in cap space freed up. We can use hapf on Jones and half on another forward (or evn Biron if we wanted) who also has an expiring contract after this season. Once Gagne comes back we can send down Jones and the forward until the playoffs begin, recall the vet forward and Jones without any fear of another team claiming them and us being stuck with paying any dead cap space (the Pens did this last year with Satan and another guy, they made their top 9 much better than they could afford cap-wise in the regular season for their cup run).

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Old
10-28-2009, 11:17 PM
  #60
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old ed and clarkie

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Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
I figured it was time for a separate thread and Bennyflyers also posted something similar in the Stevens thread, the Jones thing was kind of the last straw for me personally and it's useful to separate GM and coaching discussion, it's not directly Stevens' fault that we don't have a guy who can win an FO.

Paul Holmgren's resume:

The Good
Signing Kimmo
Signing Hartnell
Coburn Trade
Drafting JVR
Forsberg Trade
Pronger Trade
Legein Trade
Biron Trade and Signing
Carle Trade
Umberger for Sbisa
Signing Ossi

The Bad
Vandermeer Trade
Modry Trade
Eminger Trade
Gauthier Trade (we dealt a 2nd with him, why not keep him in the AHL?)
Upshall Trade
Jones Contract
Metropolit waived
Not bringing in a 3rd line C
Not bringing in someone who could win a faceoff
Overall cap management
The Klotz pick (it has to be mentioned because it was just so, so bad).
Trading away all of our high picks for 3 drafts in a row.
Recalling Jones.
Waiving Ossi.

The Undecided
Briere contract
Pronger contract
Bringing in Emery, letting Biron go.
Not trading for a decent goalie prospect

I'm probably missing a few moves, but that's the basic resume. So how do you feel? Has Holmgren resurrected the franchise from the 06-07 hell or has he developed a team using poor cap management that has had the same fundamental flaws for the last 2 years?
i dont think homer is on his own here. Most of thses moves have Clarke and Homers finger prints all over them. For Snider to go on Eskin and anounce Pronger is a top two or three d-man in the league is laughable. Signing a average goalie Emry and a slow 36 year old defenseman does not vault the flyers over the pens. Homer is just a patsie...Clarke and Snider are behind the big moves.

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Old
10-28-2009, 11:21 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
You are mistaken. We have the rom to eat that 1.375m cap hit and maintain the same opening day roster we had once Gagne comes back. Yes, we'd have to differ some of the ELC SPA bonuses until next year (IF they are even reached) but we CAN still keep the same roster. It's not quite the blunder everyone is rioting about.

You can bet your ass that if Jones getting claimed would have meant that we couldn't bring back Gagne once he's healed (ala Briere last year) then there is no way in hell that Homer would have recalled him. I also believe that some team should grab him for just 1.375m cap hit.

If Jones gets claimed then fine, it sucks but we can deal with it. If he doesn't then we are instantly much better on defense and once Gagne comes back then we can either trade Jones at that point or just send him back down to make some cap space.

Keep this in mind too guys, with Gagne out we have about 5.5 mil in cap space freed up. We can use hapf on Jones and half on another forward (or evn Biron if we wanted) who also has an expiring contract after this season. Once Gagne comes back we can send down Jones and the forward until the playoffs begin, recall the vet forward and Jones without any fear of another team claiming them and us being stuck with paying any dead cap space (the Pens did this last year with Satan and another guy, they made their top 9 much better than they could afford cap-wise in the regular season for their cup run).
I'm sorry, were you not here last year? Did you not see what happened?

As of right now we have $1.611M in cap space. If Jones gets claimed that's going to shrink to $0.236M (once Gagne is back). That means when we have nicks and scratches that lead to a guy getting called up here or there, we're going to have almost no flexibility in replacing guys in the lineup. EXACTLY what happened last year and led to Upshall and a 2nd getting dealt for Carcillo (a brutal trade). It led to Giroux missing a game last year because Timonen was hurt and we needed to clear Giroux so we could dress 6 defenseman. It led to us playing two ATOs in the last week of the season with home ice advantage on the line...which we ****ing lost.

And it resulted in our Captain calling out our GM publicly on his atrocious cap management last year, which led to all of that crap happening.

If he gets claimed, Holmgren should resign. This is a huge gamble with cap space that he worked very hard to create for this season for very limited gain. If he gets claimed it will hamstring our cap flexibility, and recreate ALL of the problems we had last year.

Ned Ryerson?

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Old
10-28-2009, 11:22 PM
  #62
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a slow 36 year old defenseman does not vault the flyers over the pens..
Yeah that's basically all Pronger is.


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Old
10-28-2009, 11:26 PM
  #63
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After the Yanks are spanked could we get the Phillies management to give the Flyers' some tips on how to do things, please?

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10-28-2009, 11:30 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
i dont think homer is on his own here. Most of thses moves have Clarke and Homers finger prints all over them. For Snider to go on Eskin and anounce Pronger is a top two or three d-man in the league is laughable. Signing a average goalie Emry and a slow 36 year old defenseman does not vault the flyers over the pens. Homer is just a patsie...Clarke and Snider are behind the big moves.
Ummm but he is lol. I missed Panayiotis's's "I hate every single Flyer and I hope we trade them all" rants

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10-28-2009, 11:43 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by panayiotis View Post
i dont think homer is on his own here. Most of thses moves have Clarke and Homers finger prints all over them. For Snider to go on Eskin and anounce Pronger is a top two or three d-man in the league is laughable. Signing a average goalie Emry and a slow 36 year old defenseman does not vault the flyers over the pens. Homer is just a patsie...Clarke and Snider are behind the big moves.

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Old
10-29-2009, 12:03 AM
  #66
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Ignorant post.

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Old
10-29-2009, 12:11 AM
  #67
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Flyers opening day roster:

F: Briere (6.5m), Richards (5.75m), Gagne (5.25m), Carter (5.0m), Hartnell (4.2m), JVR (1.65m, 0.63m of it is bonuses), Lappy (1.17m), Carcillos (0.89m), Giroux (0.82m), Asham (0.64m), Betts (0.55m), Cote (0.55m), Powe (0.52m), Pyorala (0.50m) = 34.00m

D: Timonen (6.33m), Pronger (6.25m), Carle (3.44m), Coburn (1.3m), Parent (0.85m), OKT (0.60m), Svyret (0.58m) = 19.35m

G: Emery (1.5m), Bouche (0.95m) = 2.45m

total = 55.8

We are 1.0 mil under the cap and with us being able to differ 0.63 mil of JVR's salary (his bonuses that he may not even reach anyways) we have 1.63 mil in cpa space to play with. Thus, even if Jones is claimed off waivers and we are on the hook for 1.375 mil of dead cap space, we CAN in fact bring Gagn back off LTIR this season without it affecting the 24 man roster we started the season with.

I hope this clarifies things for everyone. Calculating the cap is a very very complicated thing and I beat my head on the keyboard trying to explain it to many of you last year and I'm NOT spending 3 freaking weeks doing it again this year. I'm right and if you can't follow the numbers above and don't know how to actually compute the cap then I simply don't care and won't explain it. I'm right, losing Jones to re-entry waivers WON'T prevent us from having the EXACT same 24-man roster we started the season with at any point on any day this season.

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10-29-2009, 12:16 AM
  #68
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Also, we do NOT have to carry a 24-man roster. We can waive Cote if we have injuries and need to bring someone up. Would losing that 1.375 mil in cap fpexability make our wiggle room tight??? YES, however it doesn't **** us over like you are making it out to be. Even if Jones gets claimed we still have more flexability than we did last season. Last season we COULDN'T ice even the 20-man roster that we wanted with Upshall, Giroux and Briere in it like we wanted. THAT'S why we HAD to deal Upshall. This year we can carry a 24-man roster even WITH losing 1.375 mil in dead cap space from Jones getting claimed.

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10-29-2009, 12:25 AM
  #69
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Also, we do NOT have to carry a 24-man roster. We can waive Cote if we have injuries and need to bring someone up. Would losing that 1.375 mil in cap fpexability make our wiggle room tight??? YES, however it doesn't **** us over like you are making it out to be. Even if Jones gets claimed we still have more flexability than we did last season. Last season we COULDN'T ice even the 20-man roster that we wanted with Upshall, Giroux and Briere in it like we wanted. THAT'S why we HAD to deal Upshall. This year we can carry a 24-man roster even WITH losing 1.375 mil in dead cap space from Jones getting claimed.
Actually, yes we could. We did, in fact. The problem was that then things like Timonen having the flu happened, something that put him out of the lineup for a couple of games...but not 10.

What's remarkable is that you're arguing that it's A-OK for our GM to risk nixing $1.375M of dead cap space, because we can do things like waiving other players. Obviously we can do that...but we're still sitting there with $1.375M of cap space that's doing exactly ****all for us in trying to win games. You really want to label that a friggin bangup job by Holmgren?

Quote:
Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
We are 1.0 mil under the cap and with us being able to differ 0.63 mil of JVR's salary (his bonuses that he may not even reach anyways) we have 1.63 mil in cpa space to play with. Thus, even if Jones is claimed off waivers and we are on the hook for 1.375 mil of dead cap space, we CAN in fact bring Gagn back off LTIR this season without it affecting the 24 man roster we started the season with.

I hope this clarifies things for everyone. Calculating the cap is a very very complicated thing and I beat my head on the keyboard trying to explain it to many of you last year and I'm NOT spending 3 freaking weeks doing it again this year. I'm right and if you can't follow the numbers above and don't know how to actually compute the cap then I simply don't care and won't explain it. I'm right, losing Jones to re-entry waivers WON'T prevent us from having the EXACT same 24-man roster we started the season with at any point on any day this season.
1) I'm not sure I've seen anyone arguing that we wouldn't be able to bring back Gagne. In fact, typing in www.capgeek.com, and knowing simple addition/subtraction will prove that this is the case assuming you understand that Jones' claimed salary would be a $1.375M. You're not explaining rocket science here, the hard stuff is done by someone else and the important numbers are on display.

2) People, myself vehemently, are arguing that risking $1.375M in cap space--when we don't have very much more than that to begin with--is friggin dumb. It is...you're putting a significant portion of our available, and, frankly, our potentially available cap space (given that it's a limited, and cheap contract group of people that could be waived).

3) Even if Jones makes it through waivers, it isn't like you could keep him as a contributing member of this team w/out doing a host of other moves (No, waiving Cote isn't going to get it done), and even then you're likely going to be left in a position with ZERO cap space. So, we'd be back to the primary problem of last year. So, high risk and only limited potential gain.

4) While it's unlikely we can make any upgrade trades this year, if Jones gets claimed on re-entry you can pretty much forget about it barring an important player going on LTIR.

Seriously, the potential cons so heavily outweigh the pros here (and I don't argue at all that Jones wouldn't improve the back of our defense right now) it's ridiculous. If he doesn't get claimed by someone, we should all breathe a deep sigh of relief...I think someone should. He can be a solid depth defenseman on a cheap one-year contract. If he does get claimed, given all of that, Holmgren should resign. It's a dumb move and he would have gotten us burned.


Last edited by Jester: 10-29-2009 at 12:33 AM.
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10-29-2009, 12:36 AM
  #70
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Actually, yes we could. We did, in fact. The problem was that then things like Timonen having the flu happened, something that put him out of the lineup for a couple of games...but not 10.

What's remarkable is that you're arguing that it's A-OK for our GM to risk nixing $1.375M of dead cap space, because we can do things like waiving other players. Obviously we can do that...but we're still sitting there with $1.375M of cap space that's doing exactly ****all for us in trying to win games. You really want to label that a friggin bangup job by Holmgren?

I'm NOT saying it's a great thing to do but just that it's not the end of the world if he gets claimed. The FACT that Jones is better than 2 dmen we are actually putting out on the ice on a nightly basis RIGHT NOW and that even if he does get claimed that we CAN work arounf that dead cap space, it's a risk worth taking to improve the team right now by playing Jones over Syvret and OKT. THAT'S what I'm saying. Because it doesn't completely screw us when Gagne comes back even if he gets claimed, it's a risk we SHOULD take to try and win more games right now.

Last season it WAS pretty short sighted to add as much cap hit as we did with Carle WITHOUT shedding any becaue we knew without a doubt that once Briere came back we were screwed. We are NOT in that situation with this move even if Jones gets claimed.

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10-29-2009, 12:42 AM
  #71
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I'm NOT saying it's a great thing to do but just that it's not the end of the world if he gets claimed. The FACT that Jones is better than 2 dmen we are actually putting out on the ice on a nightly basis RIGHT NOW and that even if he does get claimed that we CAN work arounf that dead cap space, it's a risk worth taking to improve the team right now by playing Jones over Syvret and OKT. THAT'S what I'm saying. Because it doesn't completely screw us when Gagne comes back even if he gets claimed, it's a risk we SHOULD take to try and win more games right now.

Last season it WAS pretty short sighted to add as much cap hit as we did with Carle WITHOUT shedding any becaue we knew without a doubt that once Briere came back we were screwed. We are NOT in that situation with this move even if Jones gets claimed.
Look, calling up a player that is likely to get claimed on re-entry is pretty much always stupid. It's stupid to pay for someone to play for someone else when it's a competitive league and you're constrained by parameters tied to those decisions. Frankly, one of our division rivals should claim Jones just to screw us over.

For example, the Devils have roughly ~4.38M available, and Paul Martin is going to be injured for a while. Lou can pick up a defenseman to help out for a while, and put his division rival into a corner with the cap...a move Holmgren handed to him on a silver platter if he decides to take it.

Potentially killing our salary cap bubble like this is really dumb...especially for a marginal player like Randy Jones. Is he an improvement over OKT/Syvret? Yes. A huge one? No, not really.

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10-29-2009, 12:47 AM
  #72
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Let me ask you this, not looking at the regular season just for the playoffs, would you want to add one of Shanny or Forsberg (or even both) JUST FOR THE PLAYOFFS???? If it means we sit some guys like Cote, Carcillo or Asham, would you do it??? I certainly would. Hell, those guys would probably bump at least 1 if not 2 (if we got them both) out of our top 9 and down to the 4th line. I think that our playoff team would be much better under that scenario.

Well, if Jones gets claimed then we have one less contract and CAN sign both Shanny and Forsberg with the 5.55 mil of free cap space from Gagne being on LTIR, differing JVR's bonuses, 1 mil in current free cap space, and paying 1.375 mil in dead cap space. Once Gagne comes back we can send down whomever we need to so we can get under the 56.8 mil cap limit (less the 1.375 mil of dead cap space) though we'd be in a very similar situation as we were last year with Briere coming off LTIR. Then we can recall whomever we want once the playoffs begin without having to worry about teams claiming them off re-entry waivers.

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10-29-2009, 12:53 AM
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Look, calling up a player that is likely to get claimed on re-entry is pretty much always stupid. It's stupid to pay for someone to play for someone else when it's a competitive league and you're constrained by parameters tied to those decisions. Frankly, one of our division rivals should claim Jones just to screw us over.

For example, the Devils have roughly ~4.38M available, and Paul Martin is going to be injured for a while. Lou can pick up a defenseman to help out for a while, and put his division rival into a corner with the cap...a move Holmgren handed to him on a silver platter if he decides to take it.

Potentially killing our salary cap bubble like this is really dumb...especially for a marginal player like Randy Jones. Is he an improvement over OKT/Syvret? Yes. A huge one? No, not really.
You are exactly right on this, it IS stupid unless you are just trying to shed a contract (which I don't htink is the case here, I think we REALLY REALLY want him on the roster). However, who is to say that it IS likely that Jones will get claimed. Depending upon my defense I'd most likely be interested in him at 1.375 mil if I'm another team. However, I'm only speculating here, I don't know what every other teams top 6 look like and how Jones would fiot into their cap situation. I'm certain that Holmgren has at least considered what teams MIGHT be interested in him an who CAN claim him and that he feels at least pretty comfortable that Jones WILL pass through re-entry wavers. If Holmgren felt that Jones was LIKELY to get claimed then I highly doubt he'd take the risk because yes, then it WOULD just be plain stupid to piss away 1.375 mil in cap space when you feel there is almost no chance of the player slipping through.

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10-29-2009, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by phlocky View Post
Let me ask you this, not looking at the regular season just for the playoffs, would you want to add one of Shanny or Forsberg (or even both) JUST FOR THE PLAYOFFS???? If it means we sit some guys like Cote, Carcillo or Asham, would you do it??? I certainly would. Hell, those guys would probably bump at least 1 if not 2 (if we got them both) out of our top 9 and down to the 4th line. I think that our playoff team would be much better under that scenario.

Well, if Jones gets claimed then we have one less contract and CAN sign both Shanny and Forsberg with the 5.55 mil of free cap space from Gagne being on LTIR, differing JVR's bonuses, 1 mil in current free cap space, and paying 1.375 mil in dead cap space. Once Gagne comes back we can send down whomever we need to so we can get under the 56.8 mil cap limit (less the 1.375 mil of dead cap space) though we'd be in a very similar situation as we were last year with Briere coming off LTIR. Then we can recall whomever we want once the playoffs begin without having to worry about teams claiming them off re-entry waivers.
...what fantasy world have we entered here? Stashing players like this just isn't going to work. There are too many injuries and unforeseen events that lead to bad results, and represent the ENTIRE reason for needing a cap cushion. Moreover, of course I would love to put better players on our team if possible. IF POSSIBLE.

No, I don't want Shanny. He isn't on the Devils because he wasn't good enough to play above their 4th line, and they had mutually agreed that if he couldn't play on the 3rd line or up, they would part ways.

So, No, I don't want Shanny.

And Forsberg isn't going to sign for peanuts, so that isn't going to work either. You're not going to be able to clear enough cap space to make that work. Because of our LTIR situation, our salary cap does not accept pro-rated contracts...pretty much at all. Something I was mistaken about when looking at the cap last year. Because of the fact that we are over the cap all year long with LTIR, we never bank the cap space that you could use to sign Forsberg to a 4M deal but pay 2M and be OK; we don't bank any cap space.

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10-29-2009, 01:07 AM
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You are exactly right on this, it IS stupid unless you are just trying to shed a contract (which I don't htink is the case here, I think we REALLY REALLY want him on the roster). However, who is to say that it IS likely that Jones will get claimed. Depending upon my defense I'd most likely be interested in him at 1.375 mil if I'm another team. However, I'm only speculating here, I don't know what every other teams top 6 look like and how Jones would fiot into their cap situation. I'm certain that Holmgren has at least considered what teams MIGHT be interested in him an who CAN claim him and that he feels at least pretty comfortable that Jones WILL pass through re-entry wavers. If Holmgren felt that Jones was LIKELY to get claimed then I highly doubt he'd take the risk because yes, then it WOULD just be plain stupid to piss away 1.375 mil in cap space when you feel there is almost no chance of the player slipping through.
I certainly hope Holmgren doesn't think he's going to get claimed...of course, he didn't think Nolan Baumgartener was going to get claimed either.

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