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Old
10-26-2009, 11:16 PM
  #51
echlfreak
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Other targets:

Stajan
Frolov
Ott
Rene Bourque



Proposals:


Proposal: Stajan for Tootoo (Toronto loves toughness) and Santorelli

or

Proposal: Frolov for Sulzer, Rights to Radulov and a 2nd Round in 2010



Line Combos:

Dumont-Arnott-Hornqvist
Erat-Horton-Sullivan
Stajan-Wilson-Ward
Goc-Scatchard-Smithson
Belak

With the Legwand(4.5)/Horton(4.0) deal and the...Tootoo(975)-Santorelli(708)/Stajan(1.75) deal we would actually save a little on cap space. Yet add scoring in Horton (approx 25 per year) and more scoring with Stajan (approx 30-40 points per season). And you don't give up that much.

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10-27-2009, 08:15 AM
  #52
barrytrotzsneck
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I think those of you that think Trotz is even on a short leash are fooling yourselves. I don't believe for a second that Poile holds him accountable for the slow start, and even if he did he would hold "conscientious service" in consideration. He's not the type of GM to enact a "shake 'em up" firing. Trotz and company will work out their contracts. Now, if they get renewed again, I don't know, but I would be shocked to see them let go before that point.

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10-27-2009, 08:46 AM
  #53
untouchable21
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Hey! Coyotes fan here.

Not sure if the Preds and Coyotes make good trading partners, but a player that could be a good fit for Nashville is Peter Mueller.

While he may not be immediately available, as a Coyotes fan I think he may be in need of a change of scenery.

Looking at your roster, your best bargaining chip is Dan Hamhuis, but correct me if I'm wrong, he is an UFA in July and is likely only a rental.

Phoenix at the moment is also in need of scoring, but with loads of offensive players developing in the AHL, Mueller's replacement could come from within. (Mikael Boedker)

Is there a "FAIR" deal to be had for both teams here? If a player like Mueller were to be made available would the Nashville 2010 1st round pick be in play?

Again this is all personal speculation that Mueller who is somewhat struggling, needs a change of scenery. You are not likely going to find many on the Coyotes boards willing to give up on him just yet. Mueller should easily score 25 - 30 per season.

Not sure how much Ryan Jones makes, but with Phoenix near the cap floor, they have to take back someone that is earning as much as Mueller

Would this be a fair proposal ....

Nashville - Mueller

Phoenix - Ryan Jones and Nashville's 2010 1st rounder


Perhaps it has to be a three way trade along the lines of something like this ....

Nashville - Mueller

Team "X" - Hamhuis

Phoenix - a replacement top 6 forward

I don't know. What do you all think?

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Old
10-27-2009, 09:53 AM
  #54
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I'd love to get Mueller, I'd do the Jones proposal, but I don't know about anyone else.

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10-27-2009, 12:28 PM
  #55
ThirdManIn
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At this pace, our first round pick is going to be a high pick. Honestly, I don't think Mueller is worth a first even if we were looking to be fighting for a playoff spot.

Mueller might have the ability to be a good top six. Remember, though, Nashville isn't exactly the team where players with potentially explosive offensive ability are going to be able to find it. Plus we're pretty stocked up the middle, so unless he can play wing acquiring him doesn't make a lot of sense.

Assume he could play wing, I'd say take your Jones proposal and change the first to a conditional pick that could turn into a second, or a flat out third. If that doesn't get it done, maybe throw in Klein. At this point I'm not sure anyone would argue with him being shipped.

(Note: I probably still wouldn't be happy if we gave up what could be a second. He wasn't very productive last year in 72 games.)


Last edited by ThirdManIn: 10-27-2009 at 12:35 PM.
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Old
10-27-2009, 01:45 PM
  #56
untouchable21
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Mueller has been a winger for the majority of his time in Phoenix.

He hasn't played strictly center since his days in junior.

What would the condition be, that the pick not be a lottery pick?

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10-27-2009, 04:28 PM
  #57
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Ah. I haven't watched much of the Coyotes.

And the more I've thought about it the more I'd rather it just be a straight up third. By just looking at his numbers I don't see him coming into a Trotz system and tearing it up.

Also, I wouldn't be ok with a first round pick being offered even if it were conditional on whether or not it were a lottery pick. A lot of people overvalue draft picks, but as a fan of this club I have a different perspective.

If the Coyotes were going to try to move Mueller to Nashville but needed to maintain salary I'd say the best proposal would be Jones and Klein. That would be close to making up his cap space. I don't think a draft pick would be necessary at that point, but possibly a third rounder if it were.

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Old
10-27-2009, 04:36 PM
  #58
worstfaceoffmanever
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Quote:
Originally Posted by echlfreak View Post
Other targets:

Stajan
Frolov
Ott
Rene Bourque
None of these players are what we need. Ott is not a natural offensive player; Bourque is not a long-term solution and can't create offense on his own; Frolov would be prohibitively expensive for us to acquire; and don't let Stajan's numbers fool you, he has been AWFUL this season. Besides, all of these players are free agents next year, so we would be right back where we started.


Quote:
Proposals:


Proposal: Stajan for Tootoo (Toronto loves toughness) and Santorelli

or

Proposal: Frolov for Sulzer, Rights to Radulov and a 2nd Round in 2010
The first fails miserably. Not only would Stajan flounder here, we have sorely missed Tootoo's physical presence on the ice and now would never be able to put him to use. I realize that he's not a very good hockey player, but the guy brings an intangible to our team that makes our whole bottom six work and gives the opposition pause with the puck, and that's something we need.

The second deal is really bad for LA. They get one immediate asset for a player who is actually starting to play to the level that he's capable of, which means he's of use to them, which means that they want something of value in return and not a bunch of spare parts. From our end, Sulzer has been playing well enough to stay around, or at least ahead of Klein on the depth chart.

Honestly, rather than take any of the deals you've proposed here, I would rather take our lumps, sell what we can in February, clear out the bulk of the coaching staff (with the exception of Mitch Korn), draft a guy with some actual skill and offensive creativity like Seguin or Kabanov in the top five in LA next June, and try to fix our needs with long term solutions at the draft and in free agency, and not with a bunch of rentals that come at the expense of our prospect pool. That's what the Leafs have been doing for years and it has gotten them nowhere.


Last edited by worstfaceoffmanever: 10-27-2009 at 04:49 PM.
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Old
10-27-2009, 05:53 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by untouchable21 View Post
Hey! Coyotes fan here.

Not sure if the Preds and Coyotes make good trading partners, but a player that could be a good fit for Nashville is Peter Mueller.

While he may not be immediately available, as a Coyotes fan I think he may be in need of a change of scenery.

Looking at your roster, your best bargaining chip is Dan Hamhuis, but correct me if I'm wrong, he is an UFA in July and is likely only a rental.

Phoenix at the moment is also in need of scoring, but with loads of offensive players developing in the AHL, Mueller's replacement could come from within. (Mikael Boedker)

Is there a "FAIR" deal to be had for both teams here? If a player like Mueller were to be made available would the Nashville 2010 1st round pick be in play?

Again this is all personal speculation that Mueller who is somewhat struggling, needs a change of scenery. You are not likely going to find many on the Coyotes boards willing to give up on him just yet. Mueller should easily score 25 - 30 per season.

Not sure how much Ryan Jones makes, but with Phoenix near the cap floor, they have to take back someone that is earning as much as Mueller

Would this be a fair proposal ....

Nashville - Mueller

Phoenix - Ryan Jones and Nashville's 2010 1st rounder


Perhaps it has to be a three way trade along the lines of something like this ....

Nashville - Mueller

Team "X" - Hamhuis

Phoenix - a replacement top 6 forward

I don't know. What do you all think?
I remember hearing alot about Mueller two seasons ago. (His rookie season I think) His development seems to have stalled big time since then. Our first round pick could be a top 5 pick when it's all said and done. I can't see us giving a top 5 or even a top 10 pick for Mueller.

Mueller for Hamhuis? I would consider this one also. Still Mueller's play has seem to be declining since his rookie season. That is a concerning detail. How would Mueller do in a system where everyone seems to be struggling offensively? Mabye I'm not giving Mueller enough credit. His offensive skills are unquestioned. Mabye you could tell me some details why he's been struggling so bad since last year. I honestly don't watch the Yotes much.

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Old
10-27-2009, 05:54 PM
  #60
Roman Yoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Ah. I haven't watched much of the Coyotes.

And the more I've thought about it the more I'd rather it just be a straight up third. By just looking at his numbers I don't see him coming into a Trotz system and tearing it up.

Also, I wouldn't be ok with a first round pick being offered even if it were conditional on whether or not it were a lottery pick. A lot of people overvalue draft picks, but as a fan of this club I have a different perspective.

If the Coyotes were going to try to move Mueller to Nashville but needed to maintain salary I'd say the best proposal would be Jones and Klein. That would be close to making up his cap space. I don't think a draft pick would be necessary at that point, but possibly a third rounder if it were.
tempting... I always liked Mueller...

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Old
10-28-2009, 03:50 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
Honestly, rather than take any of the deals you've proposed here, I would rather take our lumps, sell what we can in February, clear out the bulk of the coaching staff (with the exception of Mitch Korn), draft a guy with some actual skill and offensive creativity like Seguin or Kabanov in the top five in LA next June, and try to fix our needs with long term solutions at the draft and in free agency, and not with a bunch of rentals that come at the expense of our prospect pool. That's what the Leafs have been doing for years and it has gotten them nowhere.
Agree 100%.

It would be nice to not have the entire season go as it has thus far. But maybe this season will be the eye opener this team has desperately needed. Since Poile likes to be patient, procratsinate whatever, he can start thinking about what pieces we'll need and can maybe get something done to drastically improve our team by the start of next season.

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Old
10-28-2009, 09:30 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post

Honestly, rather than take any of the deals you've proposed here, I would rather take our lumps, sell what we can in February, clear out the bulk of the coaching staff (with the exception of Mitch Korn), draft a guy with some actual skill and offensive creativity like Seguin or Kabanov in the top five in LA next June, and try to fix our needs with long term solutions at the draft and in free agency, and not with a bunch of rentals that come at the expense of our prospect pool. That's what the Leafs have been doing for years and it has gotten them nowhere.
Good post. It would be painful in the short term.

But were close to the no man's land where we're too good to ever get the high draft pick needed to land a superstar talent, but not good enough to really contend for the cup, and we don't have the budget to spend to get us to that contender status.

I would rather come in last and get a high pick then plug through the season with a glimmer of hope at that 8th spot and continue to finish 9th-12th.

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Old
10-28-2009, 10:15 AM
  #63
Roman Yoshi
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We can't finish in last! That place is reserved for the leafs... in other words BOSTON

In all seriousness though, I am Ok with the team tanking so we can get a high draft pick. John McFarland sounds like a good pick, or maybe Brett Connolly later in the draft.

If we really crash and burn we could draft Kabanov, or Pulkkinen but I am sure Poile would rather draft a North American.

Can we trade Erat while we're at it?


Last edited by Roman Yoshi: 10-28-2009 at 10:21 AM.
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10-28-2009, 10:42 AM
  #64
barrytrotzsneck
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We'll do what we always do. Shortly, we'll go on a streak of 7-3 or 6-4, followed by another of 4-6...and repeat that cycle. We'll finish with about 88 points, in tenth or 11th place, and end up picking 10th or 11th overall. Ever so close to an impact player, but not quite close enough. We'll choose a character 2-way center or promising offensive defenseman, which the fanbase will at first groan about, but grow to accept and even excite about.

wash, rinse, repeat.

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10-28-2009, 11:20 AM
  #65
worstfaceoffmanever
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We can't finish in last! That place is reserved for the leafs... in other words BOSTON

In all seriousness though, I am Ok with the team tanking so we can get a high draft pick. John McFarland sounds like a good pick, or maybe Brett Connolly later in the draft.

If we really crash and burn we could draft Kabanov, or Pulkkinen but I am sure Poile would rather draft a North American.

Can we trade Erat while we're at it?
I think McFarland will bust. He's fast, and he can score goals, but everything else about his game needs serious work if he's going to make the jump to the next level.

The guy I'd really like to see us get is Tarasenko. The kid is about as explosive of an offensive player as you can ask for. Of course, we won't draft him because he's Russian, despite the fact that this is probably the most talented group of players Russia has produced in the post-Soviet era, and would likely end up taking Gormley instead.

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10-28-2009, 11:54 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by worstfaceoffmanever View Post
I think McFarland will bust. He's fast, and he can score goals, but everything else about his game needs serious work if he's going to make the jump to the next level.

The guy I'd really like to see us get is Tarasenko. The kid is about as explosive of an offensive player as you can ask for. Of course, we won't draft him because he's Russian, despite the fact that this is probably the most talented group of players Russia has produced in the post-Soviet era, and would likely end up taking Gormley instead.
Or we get the top pick and we draft Fowler instead.

What is your take on Granlund? Is he too small to be effective on NHL ice?

McFarland would at least give us some speed and a decent amount of size. Who's in your top 10 right now (assuming we get in the top 10)?


Last edited by Roman Yoshi: 10-28-2009 at 12:01 PM.
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10-28-2009, 12:08 PM
  #67
worstfaceoffmanever
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What is your take on Granlund? Is he too small to be effective on NHL ice?
From what I saw last year, he should be fine on North American ice because he has the wheels to get away from bigger defenders.


Quote:
McFarland would at least give us some speed and a decent amount of size. Who are in your top 10 right now (assuming we get in the top 10)?
1. Hall
2. Fowler
3. Seguin
4. Kabanov
5. Gudbranson
6. Tarasenko
7. Granlund
8. Gormley
9. Connolly
10. McFarland
HMs to Burmistrov, Pulkkinen, and Galiev

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10-29-2009, 12:59 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by barrytrotzsneck View Post
We'll do what we always do. Shortly, we'll go on a streak of 7-3 or 6-4, followed by another of 4-6...and repeat that cycle. We'll finish with about 88 points, in tenth or 11th place, and end up picking 10th or 11th overall. Ever so close to an impact player, but not quite close enough. We'll choose a character 2-way center or promising offensive defenseman, which the fanbase will at first groan about, but grow to accept and even excite about.

wash, rinse, repeat.
couldnt agree more

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10-29-2009, 02:15 PM
  #69
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Really what would make sense to me is to gear everything this year and next toward the 2011-12 season where Rads likely will be back for a very cheap price. Have Wilson, Weber, Suter, Rinne, Lewand, Horqvist, Blum, R. Ellis as a base.... hope to add Rads.... and figure out what else you would want to make a run that year.

Maybe its Arnott, Dumont, Hamhuis, Sully, Erat but probably not. Maybe Tootoo is a piece. Maybe other parts of our current team, ahl farm or prospects are pieces. Maybe not. With that base of players and some hard asset management, I believe you could create a contender. Then when you contend, you can start to entice other players to come be a part of it (it worked for Kariya, Arnott, Dumont).

As is, I agree it feels like a wash, rinse, repeat.

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10-29-2009, 02:31 PM
  #70
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Really what would make sense to me is to gear everything this year and next toward the 2011-12 season where Rads likely will be back for a very cheap price. Have Wilson, Weber, Suter, Rinne, Lewand, Horqvist, Blum, R. Ellis as a base.... hope to add Rads.... and figure out what else you would want to make a run that year.

Maybe its Arnott, Dumont, Hamhuis, Sully, Erat but probably not. Maybe Tootoo is a piece. Maybe other parts of our current team, ahl farm or prospects are pieces. Maybe not. With that base of players and some hard asset management, I believe you could create a contender. Then when you contend, you can start to entice other players to come be a part of it (it worked for Kariya, Arnott, Dumont).

As is, I agree it feels like a wash, rinse, repeat.
Let's not mislead anyone here. Radulov "likely" coming back is mostly speculation by Poile. Radulov himself has never said he is coming back, and has in fact said that is loves it in Russia. IMO, he won't be back unless the KHL folds.

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10-29-2009, 03:52 PM
  #71
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Not based on Poile at all- it's my opinion that likely he returns. Too much fame and fortune awaiting here.

Could be wrong but I'm willing to use the next two years to build for the future either way- I think at best the current plan may get us up to a decent team but not an elite team.

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