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Fire Paul Holmgren Thread (and related front office screwups) - 09/10 Edition

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Old
10-29-2009, 02:32 PM
  #101
JLHockeyKnight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
The guy is a ****ing moron
What he said.

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10-29-2009, 03:21 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Dig Out Your Soul View Post
Allow me.



Alberts was pretty terrible at times and was one of the two defensemen brought in as injury replacements who ****ed the cap over for the year. I wouldn't classify it as a "good" trade because who couldn't throw a 4th round pick at the Bruins for an overpaid 6th defenseman that may or may not give the other team two goals every game? It's more of a "meh" trade.



Briere is no longer a centre, Carter, Richards, and Giroux all deserve more than playing third line centre, Pyorala was a complete unknown and to this point is not a capable third line centre (same goes for Powe), and Betts is a perfect fourth line centre. None of these guys are genuine third line centres in the NHL.



Betts has never been that great at faceoffs. He's hovered at 50% the last few years. That's not exactly faceoff specialist numbers.



Don't remember the OP saying anything about retaining Upshall. He was traded to create cap room - which wasn't accomplished given that we had to play two amateur try-out players while competing for home ice because there wasn't enough cap space to call up real replacements. Also, the trade was major overpayment...I mean really major. Upshall straight up for Carcillo is a win for the Coyotes, nevermind tossing in a 2nd rounder for good measure - especially when our prospect pool is dwindling.



The Eminger trade was a first round pick thrown away. Are you seriously saying that's ok? Holmgren then had to fix his mistake by trading another first round pick (Downie) for Carle, who played rather poorly last year and completely ****ed over the cap. Only now is it looking like a better deal and that may just be because Carle has Pronger babysitting him.



Last I checked Metro is still playing for the Canadiens and not too badly in the couple games I've seen. But who the **** cares what they're doing now? Last year they were solid depth players we needed. If home-ice is on the line, would you rather have Vaananen on the ice or David ****ing Sloane?



Having no patience and signing Emery immediately (thus letting Biron walk) has cast more uncertainty over the goaltending situation long-term.

We're getting what we paid for there. Emery is providing below-average starting goaltending for below-average starting money. Biron gave us average to above-average starting goaltending for average starting money and deservedly earned a bit of a raise. His demands would've dropped the longer Holmgren waited.



You can't be happy with someone who is responsible for two major issues that will ruin this hockey team for the foreseeable future. Re-calling Jones and letting Stevens continue to coach in this league are not toss-up decisions that don't affect how you feel about the GM. Stevens has ****ed this team up for three years and the Jones thing will **** the cap for the year. Both are completely unacceptable. Those are decisions a good GM doesn't make. There's nothing to be happy with anymore. This club needs to start going deep in the playoffs this year and for the next couple years or the window will close. Paying Randy Jones to play for someone else and allowing that stunned **** to pretend to coach will not accomplish the goal of winning the Cup. Homer needs to make the right moves starting now or get the **** out of town.

(sorry for all the cursing - not directed at you, just anger for the situation in general)
Great post!!

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What he said.
Me three!

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Old
10-29-2009, 04:45 PM
  #103
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My next avatar, is dedicated to our GM.

Because everybody deserves love, even at a time of despair.

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Old
10-29-2009, 05:02 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
My next avatar, is dedicated to our GM.

Because everybody deserves love, even at a time of despair.
I think the comment is perfect... It seems to be a favorite phrase of his if you notice

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10-29-2009, 05:15 PM
  #105
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Randy Jones owes the Flyers a big ****ing thank you card. I get wanting to take care of your employee's (i.e. getting him out of the AHL), but not potentially at the expense of your team. That's what just happened. Holmgren just did Randy Jones a favor.
He'll come back and be our defensive coach for cheap .

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10-29-2009, 06:20 PM
  #106
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Holmgren is by far the worst GM when it comes to managing the cap. I don't know how anyone thinks he deserves stay because no one who is that bad at a crucial aspect of their job deserves to be employed. Unfortunately, he'll be here as long as he continues to generate playoff revenue for the organization.

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10-29-2009, 07:13 PM
  #107
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IMO, Briere and Pronger contract should both be under the Good moves.

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Old
10-29-2009, 07:23 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
IMO, Briere and Pronger contract should both be under the Good moves.
It's still early in both contracts. Pronger's we don't even know it counts, and we already know that they weren't aware of the rules in the CBA when they made the deal (despite what they say, let's be serious here - they thought they could get away with the 35+ rule).

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10-29-2009, 10:55 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
IMO, Briere and Pronger contract should both be under the Good moves.
I don't think so, I think the length of both of them will come back to haunt us at some point. Briere being the highest cap hit on the roster isn't exactly stellar cap management either.

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10-29-2009, 11:33 PM
  #110
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Who is worse at managing cap. Dale Tallon? Or Paul Holmgren?

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Old
10-29-2009, 11:36 PM
  #111
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Who is worse at managing cap. Dale Tallon? Or Paul Holmgren?
Dale Tallon is no longer the GM, so it's not his problem to fix.

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Old
10-29-2009, 11:37 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Dale Tallon is no longer the GM, so it's not his problem to fix.
Yeah I know. However, it was him who put them in the hole.

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Old
10-30-2009, 07:32 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForsbergIsOdin View Post
IMO, Briere and Pronger contract should both be under the Good moves.
I agree with you, even though most probably don't. But for ever good move he makes there seems to be a really stupid one to follow.

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10-30-2009, 08:29 AM
  #114
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
I agree with you, even though most probably don't. But for ever good move he makes there seems to be a really stupid one to follow.
My problem with some of these contracts, as many people have stated, is they're based upon some odd conception of future potential. Sure Carter's contract turned out alright, but at the time, $5 million for a 25 goal scorer?! I remember thinking it was nuts, and then adding that to Lupul and Jones' crazy contracts was making me want whatever Holmgren was smoking....

I can't imagine that any sort of sanity gripped our GM to make 'good' deals with Pronger and Briere. They're still risky, and still overpaid. People should WANT to play in Philadelphia, not need ridiculously front loaded contracts overpriced by a few million per year just to stick around....look at the Penguins and how they all wanted to still play together, even for a discount.

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10-30-2009, 08:32 AM
  #115
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Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
I can't imagine that any sort of sanity gripped our GM to make 'good' deals with Pronger and Briere. They're still risky, and still overpaid. People should WANT to play in Philadelphia, not need ridiculously front loaded contracts overpriced by a few million per year just to stick around....look at the Penguins and how they all wanted to still play together, even for a discount.
9/10 athletes want the money though, very few will leave millions on the table these days. Sure, some players will play for a little less, but to suggest that a whole team adopts this concept is, IMO, false.

Look no further than Ryan Malone for example, he left for more money...and (IIRC) he's actually from Pittsburgh.

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10-30-2009, 08:43 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post

I can't imagine that any sort of sanity gripped our GM to make 'good' deals with Pronger and Briere. They're still risky, and still overpaid. People should WANT to play in Philadelphia, not need ridiculously front loaded contracts overpriced by a few million per year just to stick around....look at the Penguins and how they all wanted to still play together, even for a discount.
FYI, Briere turned down more money offered by Montreal so he could play in Philly.

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10-30-2009, 08:49 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
FYI, Briere turned down more money offered by Montreal so he could play in Philly.
True, I had forgotten about Malone. And Scuderi went to L.A. this year as well, so I suppose you're right and the days of playing for less are by the wayside.

However, the Briere thing irks me. We all know how Montreal puts players through the wringer and that many players can't take that kind of pressure. Even Philly is marginally better than that, what with 3 competitive sports teams which spreads around the love a little more. I imagine that it was THIS that put Briere off playing in MTL, not the prospect of playing for Philly....

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10-30-2009, 08:53 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by FlyersRKings View Post
True, I had forgotten about Malone. And Scuderi went to L.A. this year as well, so I suppose you're right and the days of playing for less are by the wayside.

However, the Briere thing irks me. We all know how Montreal puts players through the wringer and that many players can't take that kind of pressure. Even Philly is marginally better than that, what with 3 competitive sports teams which spreads around the love a little more. I imagine that it was THIS that put Briere off playing in MTL, not the prospect of playing for Philly....
Lot's of players from Quebec do avoid playing for Montreal because of the media. It should also be noted that Briere is best friends with Biron (from their Buffalo days) and it was Biron that helped lure him here...FWIW.

At least that's how I once understood it.

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10-30-2009, 08:55 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Opus View Post
Lot's of players from Quebec do avoid playing for Montreal because of the media. It should also be noted that Briere is best friends with Biron (from their Buffalo days) and it was Biron that helped lure him here...FWIW.

At least that's how I once understood it.
(I noticed you edited the Briere with Biron, obviously you mixed them up. You sound like an Islanders announcer!

Briere's long contract doesn't irk me as much as the NMC. Those should never be offered, period.

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10-30-2009, 08:56 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by JLHockeyKnight View Post
FYI, Briere turned down more money offered by Montreal so he could play in Philly.
Actually, it's a dubious claim and after taxes I don't think it's close to true. Montreal is heavily taxed, so I think his after-tax earnings are better down here than up there.

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10-30-2009, 09:20 AM
  #121
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Actually, it's a dubious claim and after taxes I don't think it's close to true. Montreal is heavily taxed, so I think his after-tax earnings are better down here than up there.
That's 100% correct.

I forget the tax percentage (and am too lazy to look it up), but it was disgustingly high.

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10-30-2009, 09:20 AM
  #122
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Actually, it's a dubious claim and after taxes I don't think it's close to true. Montreal is heavily taxed, so I think his after-tax earnings are better down here than up there.
Wasn't aware. Interesting.

Still, it's proof that things other than money (fan pressure, media) factor in to making choices of which team to sign with.

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10-30-2009, 09:37 AM
  #123
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Wasn't aware. Interesting.

Still, it's proof that things other than money (fan pressure, media) factor in to making choices of which team to sign with.
In some cases it's true, but of course it depends on the player...we saw Sundin waffle on joining Vancouver last year, but that's probably because to the older, better veterans money isn't so much of an issue. I would imagine to the younger, more explosive players money becomes the biggest draw, and to the old journeymen it's money or whoever-will-take-me.

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10-30-2009, 02:14 PM
  #124
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"Excuse me, coach. I have pain in my stomach, maybe my hip. It's around der, ya know. I think I'm hurt"




"Hmmm..."




"I know, I'll see if Paul wants to call up my boy Jonesy"




"Yeah, I can do that. He'll make the team better, and should have been here in the first place"






Meanwhile, back at the ranch...



...they saw this was coming!



Alas...



"What can you do?"

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Old
10-30-2009, 02:38 PM
  #125
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Homer....

I'm now firmly of the belief that you ****ed the fans to help Randy Jones for the 2nd time. IMO the 1st time was giving the ridiculous contract to him.

Maybe Stevens could bake Paul a cake and show him the importance of not wasting all your ingredients. My sincerest apologies to the Holmgren bashers.

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