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When did Jack Johnson become a good DEFENSIVE defenseman?

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Old
10-30-2009, 03:46 PM
  #26
Flour Child
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Originally Posted by MK7117 View Post
This question is for King fans.
I don't got time to watch a lot of hockey as I'd like too. But my question is.

What are his chances of playing at the Olympics?
good question!

That really depends on what Burke thinks of him.

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Old
10-30-2009, 03:47 PM
  #27
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by DIEHARD the King fan View Post
How HUGE are you?
Let's just say that I got the same skills that Ron Jeremy does.

Go Meat!!!

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Old
10-30-2009, 03:47 PM
  #28
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
That could be it. Can't remember who had first when Vancouver dumped it in.
It was Doughty. They're new partners and it was probably just a misread on both sides. Scuds always looked to get the puck to Jack because he knows Jack is the puck mover and he'll do the same with Doughty.

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10-30-2009, 04:54 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by not tellin View Post
it was just one of those moments where i thought to myself, "self, oh crap, they're gunna score here, sweet." i believe it was doughty who he sent the puck to and fumbled it.
Yep, although I don't know if I'd call it a fumble. I don't know if he ever had control of it and a Van forward was right in his face. But it was definintely with Doughty that play originated.

I'm glad people are seeing Johnson's benefits, now. It's a long season, and we're going to be seeing more positives from him, such as sticking up for team mates. It's coming. I'm REALLY glad he was not moved.

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Old
10-30-2009, 06:04 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RH63 View Post
Let's just say that I got the same skills that Ron Jeremy does.

Go Meat!!!
Your Butt UGLY.
you can't act,
and you can do that other thing all by yourself?


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Old
10-30-2009, 06:08 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by JDM View Post
I have to assume that what he sees as Johnson covering up for Scuderi, the rest of us see as Scuderi still learning the system, as well as a general lack of chemistry between the two, like how terrible JJ and Greene were as a pair.

Scuderi is nails.
Yes, Scuds (aka THE PIECE) is nails. His recent pairing with DD1 looks great. Even when he was with JMFJ he looked to almost always make the safe play, which may not be flashy or lead directly to offense, but in hockey, where defenseman are concerned, safe is good. Very good!

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Old
10-30-2009, 07:15 PM
  #32
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I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but once again his +/- is abhorrent. Worst on the team.

I don't use that as my only card, as I don't get a chance to look at all the Kings games, but on paper it's looking pretty much like he's going to match the ratio of the first two years.

How am I wrong here guys, give me some analysis why he has the worst +/- on the team?

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10-30-2009, 08:11 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
I'm not trying to sound like a dick, but once again his +/- is abhorrent. Worst on the team.

I don't use that as my only card, as I don't get a chance to look at all the Kings games, but on paper it's looking pretty much like he's going to match the ratio of the first two years.

How am I wrong here guys, give me some analysis why he has the worst +/- on the team?
Not sure if you'll buy this, but a large part of it is just dumb luck. Another part is that he's been matched up against the top lines for the most part.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/new_...team=L.A&pos=D

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10-30-2009, 08:28 PM
  #34
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Right, his +/- has been on really strange situation, not sure if you can look at that.

As for his improving defense. I wouldn't say its surprising, but that he now has the opportunity to show us. His first season, our defensive lineup was horrible and our goalie was even worst. His second season, he was injured and came back inconsistent (which is expected from injury that long). Now its a more stable situation, he has a solid partner and the team has a good system in place. So its no surprise he shows improvement.

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Old
10-30-2009, 10:47 PM
  #35
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The fact is he is statistically the worst defensemen on the team, not just in +/-, but in goals allowed while on the ice at even strength. And if you look at that other link, he has played against some good players, but it is not statistically different enough to even come close to his poor defensive numbers. He makes some really nice plays from time to time, and is a good puck mover, but his play the first 10 games was horrible. What people keep posting is flash over substance. As Jim Fox said a couple of times before the Columbus game, Johnson needs to "stop running around in his own zone". The coaches let this go way too long, the pairing of Scuderi and Johnson, which was a complete disaster. They finally recognized this and broke them up three or four games ago. Since then, with Odie at Johnson's side, he has gotten back to basics and played well. Since they broke up the poor pairings the Kings have allowed 2 goals, 1 goal, 1 goal. You know the story before that. Ugly. These pairing have been working really well. Its no coincidence that Quick looks better too. Good D helps the goalie.

OD-Johnson
Scuderi-Doughty
Drewiske-Greene

I think TM keeps these guys together since they all have been playing well as a group. I like Johnson, and hope he continues to improve, but I feel its important to back up what is actually happening on the ice, not some feel good story that is not entirely true. As for the Vancouver goal, yeah, Scuds chased him behind the goal, but if you look again, Brown skates into the picture late. That was his guy to cover and he was no where near him. He was wide open in the crease.

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Old
10-31-2009, 03:04 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regulate View Post
The fact is he is statistically the worst defensemen on the team, not just in +/-, but in goals allowed while on the ice at even strength. And if you look at that other link, he has played against some good players, but it is not statistically different enough to even come close to his poor defensive numbers. He makes some really nice plays from time to time, and is a good puck mover, but his play the first 10 games was horrible. What people keep posting is flash over substance. As Jim Fox said a couple of times before the Columbus game, Johnson needs to "stop running around in his own zone". The coaches let this go way too long, the pairing of Scuderi and Johnson, which was a complete disaster. They finally recognized this and broke them up three or four games ago. Since then, with Odie at Johnson's side, he has gotten back to basics and played well. Since they broke up the poor pairings the Kings have allowed 2 goals, 1 goal, 1 goal. You know the story before that. Ugly. These pairing have been working really well. Its no coincidence that Quick looks better too. Good D helps the goalie.

OD-Johnson
Scuderi-Doughty
Drewiske-Greene

I think TM keeps these guys together since they all have been playing well as a group. I like Johnson, and hope he continues to improve, but I feel its important to back up what is actually happening on the ice, not some feel good story that is not entirely true. As for the Vancouver goal, yeah, Scuds chased him behind the goal, but if you look again, Brown skates into the picture late. That was his guy to cover and he was no where near him. He was wide open in the crease.
I don't agree, but rather than just speculate, I've gone back and looked at each and every goal that Johnson was on the ice for. Luckily only 16 games into the season there just haven't been that many things for me to look at. Here is the breakdown:

10/3 PHX 1-05:31 (PP): Vrbata gets a 60-ft pass from Jovo, slapshot from the top of the circle; Quick should have had it.
10/3 PHX 2-08:22: Point shot that would have gone wide, deflection by Winnik. Not much anyone could do about this one.
10/3 PHX 2-14:08: Simmonds turns the puck over on the outlet and Vrbata sneaks in behind both Johnson and Scuderi.
10/3 PHX 3-00:31: Doughty passes the puck right to Upshall for an easy one-timer.
10/6 SAN 2-19:43 (PP): Deflection by Blake, who was Doughty's man.
10/8 MIN 3-06:24: Johnsson scores pinching in from the left circle; Johnson was on his man on the right boards.
10/10 @STL 3-13:23 (SH): Johnson takes his man (and Quick) out of the play, Steen curls around and fires into a nearly open net. OK, you MIGHT fault Johnson on this one.
10/12 @NYI 3-18:05: Johnson tries to tie up Moulson but Moulson gets free in front of the crease and puts in the rebound.
10/15 @DET 2-03:33: Ericsson with a seeing eye shot off the faceoff.
10/15 @DET 3-14:43: Doughty turns over the puck exiting the zone and Maltby scores on a 3-on-2 down low.
10/15 @DET 3-19:53 (EN): Rafalski cherry picks a clearing pass and fires into an open net.
10/17 @CLB 1-19:13: Chimera picks off Frolov's pass to the point and scores on a 2-on-1. Quick probably should have had this one.
10/17 @CLB 2-17:02 (PP): Huge scrum in front, Johnson takes out his man but the puck squirts out to an open Torres who beats an unset Quick.
10/19 @DAL 1-17:18: Morrow with a no-look pass to Benn who is camped out in front of the crease. Not sure if Benn was Scuderi's or Johnson's man (Scuderi was closer), but let's count this anyways.
10/22 DAL 1-16:16: Scuderi fails to hold the point and Neal scores on a 2-on-1. Didn't look like Johnson misplayed the 2-on-1 since he had the passing lane cut off.
10/22 DAL 3-08:30: Fistric scores from a bouncing point shot that just sneaks through Quick's five-hole. Johnson had taken out his man Eriksson off to the side of the net. Quick should have had this one.
10/22 DAL 3-17:14: Neal scores with a well-placed wristshot off the rush. Perhaps Johnson could have closed on him quicker, but Eriksson's drop pass gave him space to shoot. Quick probably could have had this as well.
10/24 PHX 1-09:52 (PP): Doan left wide open to the left of Quick scores off a rebound from Lang's shot. One might be able to argue that Johnson might have overplayed Lombardi, but probably not.
10/24 PHX 2-15:42: Stoll's weak clearing attempt gets picked off and Vrbata sneaks in behind the defense and scores. Not sure what Johnson could have done differently here.
10/24 PHX 3-12:30: Doan takes a great lead pass from Jovo and he powers past Johnson to score on Quick. Johnson might have played Doan stronger here.
10/25 CLB 3-09:48 (PP): Both Johnson and Quick overcommit on the right side and Huselius walks around the net and scores on a wraparound.

So, out of the 21 goals scored while Johnson's been on the ice, only 5 of them were goals that Johnson might have been able to prevent. And in fact, those are stretches; on only two of those goals (Moulson and Doan) would I say that they were clearly Johnson's responsibility, and none of them were blown assignments or turnovers. Come on, that's dumb luck if I've ever seen it.

And looking back, yes, it does seem that Johnson's been more a victim of Scuderi's and Doughty's bad plays than the other way around.

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Old
10-31-2009, 11:37 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by regulate View Post
The fact is he is statistically the worst defensemen on the team, not just in +/-, but in goals allowed while on the ice at even strength. And if you look at that other link, he has played against some good players, but it is not statistically different enough to even come close to his poor defensive numbers. He makes some really nice plays from time to time, and is a good puck mover, but his play the first 10 games was horrible.

JJ's TOI seems to indicate that TM disagrees with your assessment.

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Old
10-31-2009, 01:33 PM
  #38
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i remember back in his first full season when everyone was wondering when he would turn on the offense. he was a reliable, though quiet, defensive defenseman that year. he's trying to add more flash to his game, but the defensive game has been there since he stepped into the league.

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Old
10-31-2009, 02:05 PM
  #39
William H Bonney
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Originally Posted by ukyo View Post
I don't agree, but rather than just speculate, I've gone back and looked at each and every goal that Johnson was on the ice for. Luckily only 16 games into the season there just haven't been that many things for me to look at. Here is the breakdown:

10/3 PHX 1-05:31 (PP): Vrbata gets a 60-ft pass from Jovo, slapshot from the top of the circle; Quick should have had it.
10/3 PHX 2-08:22: Point shot that would have gone wide, deflection by Winnik. Not much anyone could do about this one.
10/3 PHX 2-14:08: Simmonds turns the puck over on the outlet and Vrbata sneaks in behind both Johnson and Scuderi.
10/3 PHX 3-00:31: Doughty passes the puck right to Upshall for an easy one-timer.
10/6 SAN 2-19:43 (PP): Deflection by Blake, who was Doughty's man.
10/8 MIN 3-06:24: Johnsson scores pinching in from the left circle; Johnson was on his man on the right boards.
10/10 @STL 3-13:23 (SH): Johnson takes his man (and Quick) out of the play, Steen curls around and fires into a nearly open net. OK, you MIGHT fault Johnson on this one.
10/12 @NYI 3-18:05: Johnson tries to tie up Moulson but Moulson gets free in front of the crease and puts in the rebound.
10/15 @DET 2-03:33: Ericsson with a seeing eye shot off the faceoff.
10/15 @DET 3-14:43: Doughty turns over the puck exiting the zone and Maltby scores on a 3-on-2 down low.
10/15 @DET 3-19:53 (EN): Rafalski cherry picks a clearing pass and fires into an open net.
10/17 @CLB 1-19:13: Chimera picks off Frolov's pass to the point and scores on a 2-on-1. Quick probably should have had this one.
10/17 @CLB 2-17:02 (PP): Huge scrum in front, Johnson takes out his man but the puck squirts out to an open Torres who beats an unset Quick.
10/19 @DAL 1-17:18: Morrow with a no-look pass to Benn who is camped out in front of the crease. Not sure if Benn was Scuderi's or Johnson's man (Scuderi was closer), but let's count this anyways.
10/22 DAL 1-16:16: Scuderi fails to hold the point and Neal scores on a 2-on-1. Didn't look like Johnson misplayed the 2-on-1 since he had the passing lane cut off.
10/22 DAL 3-08:30: Fistric scores from a bouncing point shot that just sneaks through Quick's five-hole. Johnson had taken out his man Eriksson off to the side of the net. Quick should have had this one.
10/22 DAL 3-17:14: Neal scores with a well-placed wristshot off the rush. Perhaps Johnson could have closed on him quicker, but Eriksson's drop pass gave him space to shoot. Quick probably could have had this as well.
10/24 PHX 1-09:52 (PP): Doan left wide open to the left of Quick scores off a rebound from Lang's shot. One might be able to argue that Johnson might have overplayed Lombardi, but probably not.
10/24 PHX 2-15:42: Stoll's weak clearing attempt gets picked off and Vrbata sneaks in behind the defense and scores. Not sure what Johnson could have done differently here.
10/24 PHX 3-12:30: Doan takes a great lead pass from Jovo and he powers past Johnson to score on Quick. Johnson might have played Doan stronger here.
10/25 CLB 3-09:48 (PP): Both Johnson and Quick overcommit on the right side and Huselius walks around the net and scores on a wraparound.

So, out of the 21 goals scored while Johnson's been on the ice, only 5 of them were goals that Johnson might have been able to prevent. And in fact, those are stretches; on only two of those goals (Moulson and Doan) would I say that they were clearly Johnson's responsibility, and none of them were blown assignments or turnovers. Come on, that's dumb luck if I've ever seen it.

And looking back, yes, it does seem that Johnson's been more a victim of Scuderi's and Doughty's bad plays than the other way around.
+/- is the worst. stat. ever.

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Old
10-31-2009, 03:38 PM
  #40
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Seriously.

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