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Old
10-23-2009, 09:33 AM
  #1
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3rd line center and goalie

Kris Draper has continously proved that he is a waste of a 3rd line center. He is not contributing at all, and has no grit what so ever. This is becoming very apparent as the Wings first 2 lines look ok, while lines 3 and 4 look completly lost.

Ozzie needs to go. He has no glove anymore, and can keep a team in game for only so long.

As a lifelong Red Wing fan and season ticket holder, right now this team will be lucky enough to finish inside the top 8.

Wings need a goalie and a big, powerful, 3rd line center...this team is garbage and must get help.

Im so confused as to why Holland signed Eaves, Bertuzzi, and Williams. All 3 have been declining and are NOT A factor IN ANYTHING they do on the ice.

Williams misses the net point blank 9/10 times. Bertuzzi is slow and just useless, and Eaves has potential but not on a 4th line, splitting time w LOL MALTBY..

tradessssssssssssssssssss need to happen

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Old
10-23-2009, 10:06 AM
  #2
Filppula
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Eaves needs to get in the line-up and onto the 3rd line. How's he going to prove himself by sitting? I was impressed by his speed and work on the PK in his limited time. I love Abdelkader but it's in his and the clubs best interest to send him to GR to play 20 mins a night and be the leader of that club. He'd walk onto the top line, play in all situations and be the C.

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Old
10-23-2009, 10:43 AM
  #3
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have they called Manny Fernandez yet?

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10-23-2009, 11:23 AM
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detredWINgs
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Draper doesn't routinely play on the 3rd line - he usually plays on the 4th. When healthy, we have Filppula, Abdelkader, and Helm who can center the third line. Thats hardly a weak spot for this team.

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Old
10-23-2009, 11:49 AM
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I thought Williams has looked very good, Eaves hasn't played enough, and Bert has done decent. I think most of the problem seems to be in goal and we need to get rid of Lebda/Meech asap.

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10-23-2009, 11:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
Draper doesn't routinely play on the 3rd line - he usually plays on the 4th. When healthy, we have Filppula, Abdelkader, and Helm who can center the third line. Thats hardly a weak spot for this team.
plus Williams can slide over and center, Cleary move to center...I don't see a need to move for a center (especially a third line center), either.

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10-23-2009, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by teddygmr View Post
have they called Manny Fernandez yet?
God I wish they would.


Ill take Toskala over Osgood at this point.

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Old
10-23-2009, 09:48 PM
  #8
detredWINgs
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Originally Posted by benusmc View Post
I thought Williams has looked very good, Eaves hasn't played enough, and Bert has done decent. I think most of the problem seems to be in goal and we need to get rid of Lebda/Meech asap.
Yup. A decent defensive defenseman and a 1B would be nice. And neither should cost an arm and a leg to get.

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Old
10-23-2009, 10:33 PM
  #9
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Obviously, Franzen going down has drastically changed the make-up of this team. With him, you have the following line-up:

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Bertuzzi-Zetterberg-Cleary
Leino-Filppula-Williams
Draper-Helm-Maltby/Eaves/May

Abdelkader in GR

Flip is a capable 3rd line center. Actually, that unit as a 2nd line has showed well (room for improvement, but not out of place).

That said, Franzen is out. So, the following lines make sense to me:

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom
- DZH, enough said.

Leino-Filppula-Bertuzzi/Eaves?
- Leino and Filp click, but maybe Williams isn't the best complement to them. Perhaps Bertuzzi, or even Eaves will work.

Abdelkader-Helm-Cleary/May
- I like the youth and energy Abdelkader and Helm bring. As a fourth line would be great, but considering the alternatives, this unit may be best as our 3rd line. Insert Cleary or May as the muck it up types, Cleary for the offensive threat.

Maltby-Draper-Eaves/May
- Give this line a chance to succeed by limiting their ice time. Although, Maltby has 4 points in 6 games thus far, maybe promote him

As for Osgood, we've seen overall team play regress, so I think he's being exposed for what he is. I don't mean to bad-mouth the guy, he's obviously a great money goaltender (see playoff stats), but his regular season play leaves much to be desired.

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Old
10-23-2009, 11:17 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hexrae View Post
Obviously, Franzen going down has drastically changed the make-up of this team. With him, you have the following line-up:

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Bertuzzi-Zetterberg-Cleary
Leino-Filppula-Williams
Draper-Helm-Maltby/Eaves/May

Abdelkader in GR

Flip is a capable 3rd line center. Actually, that unit as a 2nd line has showed well (room for improvement, but not out of place).

That said, Franzen is out. So, the following lines make sense to me:

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom
- DZH, enough said.

Leino-Filppula-Bertuzzi/Eaves?
- Leino and Filp click, but maybe Williams isn't the best complement to them. Perhaps Bertuzzi, or even Eaves will work.

Abdelkader-Helm-Cleary/May
- I like the youth and energy Abdelkader and Helm bring. As a fourth line would be great, but considering the alternatives, this unit may be best as our 3rd line. Insert Cleary or May as the muck it up types, Cleary for the offensive threat.

Maltby-Draper-Eaves/May
- Give this line a chance to succeed by limiting their ice time. Although, Maltby has 4 points in 6 games thus far, maybe promote him

As for Osgood, we've seen overall team play regress, so I think he's being exposed for what he is. I don't mean to bad-mouth the guy, he's obviously a great money goaltender (see playoff stats), but his regular season play leaves much to be desired.
I really think Eaves would work on that line. Defensively responsible, fast, physical and likes to shoot the puck. Would be a nice compliment.

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10-28-2009, 01:23 AM
  #11
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Originally Posted by ashenhigh View Post
God I wish they would.


Ill take Toskala over Osgood at this point.
you gotta be kidding right?

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Old
10-28-2009, 01:25 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown93 View Post
Kris Draper has continously proved that he is a waste of a 3rd line center. He is not contributing at all, and has no grit what so ever. This is becoming very apparent as the Wings first 2 lines look ok, while lines 3 and 4 look completly lost.

Ozzie needs to go. He has no glove anymore, and can keep a team in game for only so long.

As a lifelong Red Wing fan and season ticket holder, right now this team will be lucky enough to finish inside the top 8.

Wings need a goalie and a big, powerful, 3rd line center...this team is garbage and must get help.

Im so confused as to why Holland signed Eaves, Bertuzzi, and Williams. All 3 have been declining and are NOT A factor IN ANYTHING they do on the ice.

Williams misses the net point blank 9/10 times. Bertuzzi is slow and just useless, and Eaves has potential but not on a 4th line, splitting time w LOL MALTBY..

tradessssssssssssssssssss need to happen
No it's his ****ing 5 hole not his glove that sucks. When you criticize someone make sure you do it right!

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Old
10-28-2009, 03:50 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
Eaves needs to get in the line-up and onto the 3rd line. How's he going to prove himself by sitting? I was impressed by his speed and work on the PK in his limited time. I love Abdelkader but it's in his and the clubs best interest to send him to GR to play 20 mins a night and be the leader of that club. He'd walk onto the top line, play in all situations and be the C.
Agreed.

On a similar note, the situation last Saturday in Denver... just bewildered me. I mean, I can understand what Babcock was doing (trying to shake things up after a tough loss in Phoenix), but why, why scratch Abdelkader of all players? First of all, he's really not playing that badly to warrent such a thing, and second of all, did the whole waivers thing just completely fly over the heads of the coaching staff and management?

It's quite simple; if you're not going to play the kid, send him back to Grand Rapids. As I understand it, that was going to be the original plan anyways; keep him in GR for the season, as a top player with top minutes; not get table scraps up in Detroit on the 4th line (or, even worse, not play at all). Abdelkader has the luxury of being able to be sent down to the minors at any time they want. So, in saying that, if the Wings aren't going to play him every night (with decent minutes), they might as well send him to a place where he will play. Riding the pine does not enhance his NHL development at all; playing in GR as a go-to-guy is what will.

As you said, it is probably in the best interest of the Wings to send him down for now, and let him be a top gun in GR. I understand the roster has taken a hit with the loss of Franzen, but the Wings still have 13 forwards without Abdelkader (14 if you want to be really generous and include Meech), so they don't really need him up here anyways (especially if he's not going to play). Why not try actually giving Patrick Eaves a real chance, instead of letting him serve drinks upstairs? He's not going to be able to prove himself as the 14th forward; he needs a regular shift for a few games in a row, to show if he really does belong here.

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Old
10-31-2009, 10:58 PM
  #14
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they signed bertuzzi, williams and eaves to fill out the roster. you do realize you need 12 forwards for a game and there 1 or 2 extra fowards.

were there better option than those 3 forwards for the 2nd, 3rd and 4th line. the answer is no

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10-31-2009, 11:15 PM
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Fernandez is injury prone... don't know why everyone wants him.

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10-31-2009, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filppula View Post
Eaves needs to get in the line-up and onto the 3rd line. How's he going to prove himself by sitting? I was impressed by his speed and work on the PK in his limited time. I love Abdelkader but it's in his and the clubs best interest to send him to GR to play 20 mins a night and be the leader of that club. He'd walk onto the top line, play in all situations and be the C.
Well Drapes didn't look like a waste of space tonight, he was all over the place. I can tell who's a waste of space though, that honor goes to Brian freakin Rafalski!

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Old
11-01-2009, 10:11 PM
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detredWINgs
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Originally Posted by YaAnotherWingsFaN View Post
Well Drapes didn't look like a waste of space tonight, he was all over the place. I can tell who's a waste of space though, that honor goes to Brian freakin Rafalski!
Rafalski isn't necessarily a waste of roster space. Just cap space. That'll teach me to complain about a guy like Mathieu Schneider making 3.3M a season.

Its a scary thought that he could easily get worse over the next two seasons.

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Old
11-01-2009, 10:13 PM
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Fernandez is injury prone... don't know why everyone wants him.
Because being prone to injury is better than being prone to sucking.

And the fact that he could be had at a discount as well..

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Old
11-01-2009, 11:12 PM
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From what I recall, they had this against EDM and CAL:

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Holmstrom
Cleary-Zetterberg-Williams
Draper-Helm-Eaves
May-Abdelkader-Maltby

I liked the Draper-Helm-Eaves line. I know it's only been two games but they played well out there. I like the idea of having players that are responsible defensively and good skaters on the bottom six; especially if they want to play the way they did against CAL more often. No more Hudler/Leino types on the bottom six.

I'm thinking way ahead but what do you do when you integrate Franzen, Filppula and Leino in the roster for playoff time?

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Holmstrom
Bertuzzi-Filppula-Franzen
Cleary-Helm-Eaves
May-Abdelkader-Draper
Maltby, Williams, Leino

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Old
11-02-2009, 02:26 PM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SvobodaMT View Post
Agreed.

On a similar note, the situation last Saturday in Denver... just bewildered me. I mean, I can understand what Babcock was doing (trying to shake things up after a tough loss in Phoenix), but why, why scratch Abdelkader of all players? First of all, he's really not playing that badly to warrent such a thing, and second of all, did the whole waivers thing just completely fly over the heads of the coaching staff and management?

It's quite simple; if you're not going to play the kid, send him back to Grand Rapids. As I understand it, that was going to be the original plan anyways; keep him in GR for the season, as a top player with top minutes; not get table scraps up in Detroit on the 4th line (or, even worse, not play at all). Abdelkader has the luxury of being able to be sent down to the minors at any time they want. So, in saying that, if the Wings aren't going to play him every night (with decent minutes), they might as well send him to a place where he will play. Riding the pine does not enhance his NHL development at all; playing in GR as a go-to-guy is what will.

As you said, it is probably in the best interest of the Wings to send him down for now, and let him be a top gun in GR. I understand the roster has taken a hit with the loss of Franzen, but the Wings still have 13 forwards without Abdelkader (14 if you want to be really generous and include Meech), so they don't really need him up here anyways (especially if he's not going to play). Why not try actually giving Patrick Eaves a real chance, instead of letting him serve drinks upstairs? He's not going to be able to prove himself as the 14th forward; he needs a regular shift for a few games in a row, to show if he really does belong here.
Something you have to keep in mind is that the general manager sets the roster and the coach works with the players he's given. If Holland thinks Abdelkader should be in Detroit and Babcock thinks the team would be better off with him sitting, he'll be on the roster but he'll be scratched. Even if Babcock wants Abdelkader to go to Grand Rapids and get ice it's ultimately up to Holland.

I do think there's a lot to be said for NHL practices, though. I think that skating with the big boys every day DOES help his development despite his lack of playing time.

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Old
11-02-2009, 04:51 PM
  #21
detredWINgs
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Originally Posted by HaelWho View Post
Something you have to keep in mind is that the general manager sets the roster and the coach works with the players he's given. If Holland thinks Abdelkader should be in Detroit and Babcock thinks the team would be better off with him sitting, he'll be on the roster but he'll be scratched. Even if Babcock wants Abdelkader to go to Grand Rapids and get ice it's ultimately up to Holland.

I do think there's a lot to be said for NHL practices, though. I think that skating with the big boys every day DOES help his development despite his lack of playing time.
Holland isn't a tyrannical moron (like someone in Toronto...). He's not going to keep Abdelkader on the sidelines if Babcock decides to make him a 13th forward. Babcock has as much say, if not more, in that regard.

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Old
11-02-2009, 05:16 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockeytown93 View Post
Kris Draper has continously proved that he is a waste of a 3rd line center. He is not contributing at all, and has no grit what so ever. This is becoming very apparent as the Wings first 2 lines look ok, while lines 3 and 4 look completly lost.

Ozzie needs to go. He has no glove anymore, and can keep a team in game for only so long.

As a lifelong Red Wing fan and season ticket holder, right now this team will be lucky enough to finish inside the top 8.

Wings need a goalie and a big, powerful, 3rd line center...this team is garbage and must get help.

Im so confused as to why Holland signed Eaves, Bertuzzi, and Williams. All 3 have been declining and are NOT A factor IN ANYTHING they do on the ice.

Williams misses the net point blank 9/10 times. Bertuzzi is slow and just useless, and Eaves has potential but not on a 4th line, splitting time w LOL MALTBY..

tradessssssssssssssssssss need to happen
Bertuzzi and Williams have been impressive. Bertuzzi has actually played fairly well, and consistently, I might add. Eaves has done good for the time he's getting, but you have a point- he has the potential for so much more. Draper isn't completely useless, he still has his speed and faceoffs, not to mention the PK. Ozzie needs to stop this "I only pick it up in the postseason ********, though. Goaltending is our biggest problem. It's hard to get fired up and pick up your game when the other team in shooting between soccer posts.

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Old
11-02-2009, 10:19 PM
  #23
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Abdelkader-Helm-Eaves

The new, more offensively capable version of McCarty-Draper-Maltby?

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