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11-02-2009, 01:37 PM
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mouser
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Coyotes Ownership/Financial Situation #8

Previous thread here:
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=678900


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11-02-2009, 01:48 PM
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Well Moyes is officially done as owner of the Coyotes. This is good news but I'm still skeptical at the future outlook of the Coyotes Franchise. I mean, okay we will have a new owner, but what if the team still loses money, then what. We are right back in the same situation as Moyes. With the way the fan support is right now, I don't see that much of a jump in attendance just because we have a new owner in town. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it. At least with a new owner we will have the team here for a few more years, and hopefully we can be an exciting and competitive team to watch and once again build up our fan base. We took a step forward with the NHL owning us temporarily, let's just hope we keep moving ahead.

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11-02-2009, 01:49 PM
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Previous thread here:
An imaginary thread (I know we'd all like to forget it all, but ...) ?

Howabout:

Coyotes Ownership/Financial Situation #7


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11-02-2009, 01:56 PM
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Sorry OT did anyone attend the Hockey game Saturday dressed as Jerry Moyes? Trucker hat?

This is a good day to have that man 100% out of the picture. It's been discussed briefly in the BOH side, but IF the team isn't sold locally and moves after the season; does the CoG litigate against Jerry for breakage of the AMBULA? I'm sure the CoG will sue someone if the team leaves, just confused who their fight would effectively be with.

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11-02-2009, 02:30 PM
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Sorry OT did anyone attend the Hockey game Saturday dressed as Jerry Moyes? Trucker hat?

This is a good day to have that man 100% out of the picture. It's been discussed briefly in the BOH side, but IF the team isn't sold locally and moves after the season; does the CoG litigate against Jerry for breakage of the AMBULA? I'm sure the CoG will sue someone if the team leaves, just confused who their fight would effectively be with.
I think he would be the first target. They never did litigate the "chilling bids" issue and I assume they could go back to that, the damage done to the franchise, and maybe go after Moyes personally. They could also go after Balsillie for the same reason and argue JM and JB "colluded" to damage the franchise and keep other bidders away; and they could also go after the NHL if the league doesn't, in the eyes of the COG, make a reasonable attempt to sell the team locally as its bid requires it to do.

All speculation and I don't know if any of the issues would see the light of day in the eyes of a judge, but I think they'd have plenty of targets to shoot at.

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11-02-2009, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DouXer4ouR View Post
Well Moyes is officially done as owner of the Coyotes. This is good news but I'm still skeptical at the future outlook of the Coyotes Franchise. I mean, okay we will have a new owner, but what if the team still loses money, then what. We are right back in the same situation as Moyes. With the way the fan support is right now, I don't see that much of a jump in attendance just because we have a new owner in town. Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it. At least with a new owner we will have the team here for a few more years, and hopefully we can be an exciting and competitive team to watch and once again build up our fan base. We took a step forward with the NHL owning us temporarily, let's just hope we keep moving ahead.
i think the idea will be to promote the hell out of the fact that the team will be saying in AZ for years...if IE ends up owning the team that's there plan. the stable ownership + commitment to the market could attract new fans and/or bring back old ones especially if y'all keep your winning ways. i know IE has said that they have been in talks with glendale about new promotions and advertising for both the team and westgate, so they're already beginning the process. let's hope they don't get too far ahead of themselves though, they don't actually own the team yet.

they also acknowledge that they will be losing money for probably (at least) the first two years and accept that fact, but believe they can make it profitable down the line once moyes'/balsillie's mess is cleaned up. let's hope that their plan works.

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11-03-2009, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by 81ragnaH View Post
they also acknowledge that they will be losing money for probably (at least) the first two years and accept that fact, but believe they can make it profitable down the line once moyes'/balsillie's mess is cleaned up. let's hope that their plan works.
That's one of the things I like about Ice Edge thus far, they seem to have a good grasp on the big picture and are thinking long term. They are already approaching things smarter than Moyes!

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11-03-2009, 08:46 AM
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Sorry OT did anyone attend the Hockey game Saturday dressed as Jerry Moyes? Trucker hat?
I wore a trucker hat to the game last Saturday, but I wear one to most to help support a buddy of mine & his company. It had nothing to do w/ Moyes.

A new thread for a new begining, let's hope this gets off on the proper foot.

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11-03-2009, 10:29 AM
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They are already approaching things smarter than Moyes!
Maybe they managed to get Maggie the Monkey to come out of retirement for a job in strategy.

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11-03-2009, 12:13 PM
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The Yotes attendance in the late nineties was more than respectible. Even in the last couple of years we were not that far off of a few NHL teams even with a bad product on the ice. Poor management grossly inflated the losses reported.
It was inevidable and expected that the bankrupcy and damage Moyes and Balsille created would have a huge impact on attendance this year.
Once a new owner is in place, the attendance will bounce back, and if the team continues to have success on the ice, we will start to have 14,000 to 16,000 fans per game. (hopefully by the end of the Olympic break.)

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11-03-2009, 12:14 PM
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Just to sum things up.

1. After months of the team in bankruptcy, the league owns the team.
2. Jerry Moyes and Gretzky are officially gone with Moyes getting 30 million and 0 for Gretzky but the NHL said they will work something out with him out of court.
3. All of the remaining creditors has been paid in full except for the league who had to dish out more money than what they paid the season before.
4. Coyotes have the worst attendance in the league even with a winning record early on.
5. All talks with getting an new owner and a new lease are more confidential without the court.
6. Its anyones guess with what happens next. Relocation or not, either the NHL and COG will be on good terms with each other or bad terms with each other.
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11-03-2009, 01:29 PM
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Once a new owner is in place, the attendance will bounce back, and if the team continues to have success on the ice, we will start to have 14,000 to 16,000 fans per game. (hopefully by the end of the Olympic break.)
I'd love for that to be the case but honestly I don't think it's going to happen this year. Maybe if the team is kicking ass but even then it's going to be tough. Moyes and Balsillie worked hard at making this year a complete wash and unfortunately they did a good job. That said, if someone buys the team and there is no "out clause", attendance will get noticeably better than it has been and will slowly but surely rebound. By the olympic break though, probably not.

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11-03-2009, 01:44 PM
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At the rate things are going the Coyotes are going to have to a very deep playoff run in order to get the sellouts back or the team just maybe damaged beyond repair.
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11-03-2009, 02:05 PM
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I'd love for that to be the case but honestly I don't think it's going to happen this year. Maybe if the team is kicking ass but even then it's going to be tough.
Agreed. For attendance to go up, I think we need 2 things:

- A clear agreement between the CoG and a new owner, guaranteeing at least 2 years in AZ.
- An interesting second-half of the season.

If we're lucky, we might see 13,000+ at the games after the Olympic break. I think national coverage during the Olympics will definitely help. Seing Doan (and maybe Jovo?) on team Canada on NBC will be a huge marketing boost - that is, as long as the Yotes don't suck.

I remember when France qualified for the '92 Olympics playoffs in Albertville (only time they would ever qualify). For a couple of years, hockey went from exotic to pretty popular. The Vancouver games are going to be a huge deal, and I think it's going to get people here excited about the sport for a short period of time.

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11-03-2009, 02:37 PM
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- A clear agreement between the CoG and a new owner, guaranteeing at least 2 years in AZ.
Point blank, that's not going to cut it. The deal must be long term, 2 years will not be even remotely close to enough.

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11-03-2009, 03:08 PM
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Point blank, that's not going to cut it. The deal must be long term, 2 years will not be even remotely close to enough.
Feel free to tether your own personal money to a historical failure then, for a lengthy amount of time.

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11-03-2009, 03:27 PM
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How is spending one season's or even a 20 game pack's worth of money investing in the team long term? They will be here THIS year that much we know. So why not take the gamble and at least enjoy them while they are here? If they leave anyway and we only had 5,000 people showing up we won't be able to make excuses. 5,000 people is horrible and if it continues even to the next game I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to keep them in Phoenix.

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11-03-2009, 03:37 PM
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Agreed. For attendance to go up, I think we need 2 things:

- A clear agreement between the CoG and a new owner, guaranteeing at least 2 years in AZ.
- An interesting second-half of the season.

If we're lucky, we might see 13,000+ at the games after the Olympic break. I think national coverage during the Olympics will definitely help. Seing Doan (and maybe Jovo?) on team Canada on NBC will be a huge marketing boost - that is, as long as the Yotes don't suck.

I remember when France qualified for the '92 Olympics playoffs in Albertville (only time they would ever qualify). For a couple of years, hockey went from exotic to pretty popular. The Vancouver games are going to be a huge deal, and I think it's going to get people here excited about the sport for a short period of time.
I whole heartedly agree with you here. I think the Olympics will be the shot in the arm that hockey needs, not just the Coyotes. I have been watching a ton of other teams on Center Ice and I've got to say that attendance is down quite a bit in just about every arena. The Kings' attendance doesn't look that much better than ours and the Islanders' fans didn't show up last night either. Then again, that was from a TV perspective so who knows.

What I do know is that we need to be patient. Remember that the World Series is still on, football is well under way, and the Suns' season just started. Once the WS is over, the Cardinals go back to their garbage ways, and the Suns fall apart, people will start watching more of the Coyotes. If they continue to win (hell just make it entertaining) people will start to buy tickets. We have had many, many years of piss poor hockey; I hate saying that, but it's true. The lockout certainly didn't help and casual fans still remember the good ol' days with Walt and Roenick at the helm of this team. We need people excited about this current team and the franchise, not the past. It's going to be a tough road with all that has gone on this off season, but it can be done. The NHL and the talking heads have all started to take notice of this team and so will everyone else.

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11-03-2009, 04:03 PM
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Born and raised in AZ I know that Arizona sports fans suck. Primarily because most of them were not born & raised in AZ. They don't suck as sports fans, they just suck as Arizona sports fans. Once an Arizona team loses their fans drop like flies, well actually they migrate back to the teams they followed prior to moving to Arizona. I wouldn't be shocked if half of the current Arizona Cardinal fanbase used to attend games and root against the Cards when they were the embarrassment of the league.

I would be shocked if attendance rises above the 10,000 mark this season for the Coyotes, even if they are first in the division...Until they make the playoffs....and then I think people will come out in droves, probably 'talking' about how they have always supported the team (might even be a few Redwing fans who jump on the bandwagon).

Of course then the local media will jump on the bandwagon...

And then the business opportunities will come.

I'm hopeful and almost confident the COG and a buyer will be able work out an agreement consisting of at least a 5-year lease agreement.

If that happens, I'm confident the team will be making money by year 3. This team is so stocked with prospects, I don't see how they won't be perennial winners for the majority of the next 10-15 years. Playoffs will lead to sellouts which will lead to increase ticket sales. I don't really ever see this team being a year-round sellout kind of team, but they will have enough of a bandwagon fanbase to secure more corporate revenue. The next step will be playoff round victories leading to more revenue, more ticket sales, more corporate revenue.

This team will always be the 4th sport in town, but it has shown in the past that even as the 4th sport, there are enough fans to fill the building...This time around they'll have an Arena, a profitable lease agreement and suite revenue which will enhance the ability to make extra money for ownership instead of an arena & lease agreement that limits the ability to increase revenue.

Just imagine what will happen when they win the Cup

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11-03-2009, 04:14 PM
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I'm twenty four. Almost all of my friends are Arizona natives. Whereas almost all of my parents' friends are from elsewhere. In a few more years, there will be many, many, many more Arizona natives with buying power. More and more people like me that have grown up Coyotes fans(I've been a die-hard since age eleven) are going to be raising kids of their own. I don't understand how these fools from hockey markets can't get it through their thick skulls that building a true fan base takes more than a few years.

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11-03-2009, 04:25 PM
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I'm twenty four. Almost all of my friends are Arizona natives. Whereas almost all of my parents' friends are from elsewhere. In a few more years, there will be many, many, many more Arizona natives with buying power. More and more people like me that have grown up Coyotes fans(I've been a die-hard since age eleven) are going to be raising kids of their own. I don't understand how these fools from hockey markets can't get it through their thick skulls that building a true fan base takes more than a few years.
Because to them their town has ALWAYS been a hockey market which makes them entitled before anyone else.

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11-03-2009, 10:42 PM
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I have been watching a ton of other teams on Center Ice and I've got to say that attendance is down quite a bit in just about every arena. The Kings' attendance doesn't look that much better than ours and the Islanders' fans didn't show up last night either. Then again, that was from a TV perspective so who knows.
Turnstile Tracker: NHL Attendance Down 1.1% Through November 2
The NHL is averaging 16,979 fans per game through November 2, down 1.1% from the same period a year ago. Eastern Conference teams are up slightly during the same period. The Thrashers and Bruins are seeing double-digit increases at home, with each franchise up just over 12% to date.

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11-03-2009, 11:02 PM
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Turnstile Tracker: NHL Attendance Down 1.1% Through November 2
The NHL is averaging 16,979 fans per game through November 2, down 1.1% from the same period a year ago. Eastern Conference teams are up slightly during the same period. The Thrashers and Bruins are seeing double-digit increases at home, with each franchise up just over 12% to date.
Remember those are the "announced" attendances. Our "announced" last year was usually ~14,000 (tickets distributed), but turnstile was much less. I watched the announced "sellout" in Toronto tonight and there were a bunch of empty seats in the lower level.

Not excusing our attendance for a second, but announced numbers don't mean squat.

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11-03-2009, 11:14 PM
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Feel free to tether your own personal money to a historical failure then, for a lengthy amount of time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShootThePuckCoyotes View Post
How is spending one season's or even a 20 game pack's worth of money investing in the team long term? They will be here THIS year that much we know. So why not take the gamble and at least enjoy them while they are here? If they leave anyway and we only had 5,000 people showing up we won't be able to make excuses. 5,000 people is horrible and if it continues even to the next game I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to keep them in Phoenix.
I think these were both directed at me but I don't understand either one.

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11-03-2009, 11:31 PM
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I think these were both directed at me but I don't understand either one.
The very simple point is to not expect investors to be clamoring to invest in a hockey team that is absolutely anchored to Glendale, which so happens to be the place it has failed miserably to date.

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