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Rangers / Ducks trade brewing? (Higgins for Marchant?)

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Old
11-04-2009, 03:36 PM
  #76
DontStepanMe
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Well I did say "scoring" as opposed to "scorers".
yes you did... I will give that to you, you little sneak.

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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Personally, I think the idea of a "play maker" is a little overrated. I don't think sticking a Savard or Thornton on the first line with Gaborik is necessarily going to yield better results than if you put a guy like Jeff Carter in their place. Player X passing to player Y only lasts until the defense is able to figure out whats going on.
yes it can. Stick a savard with Gaborik, and then put prospel on the second line, and now you have two lines with very dangerouls playmakers. Or just put Savard on the second line and team him w/ Cally and somebody else and i can guarantee they will start scoring more.

i guess i didn't say what I was thinking clearly, but I want a playmaker not for the first line, but for the second line, so teams can not put their best defensive forwards and dmen on the ice at the same time and not worry about the other lines.

We are lacking that second dangerous playmaker, who can set up our secondary scorers in Kotalik, Cally, or Drury.


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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
What we're lacking is players with puck skills. Ability with the puck translate into time of possession, which translates into scoring chances, and.. you get the idea. We don't necessarily need a play maker for Drury and Callahan on the 2nd line, we just need a guy who's first instinct isn't to chase the puck into the corner. You can still be a goal scorer while retaining some sort of ability to pass the puck.

Sometimes chemistry is all you need to get the job done.

absolutely true. I sorta generalize puck skills, with playmakers though. I guess I shouldn't.

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11-04-2009, 03:37 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I think that sounds like a awesome trade.

Higgins might still be overrated around the league -- and we might get more from him from someone else. And then of course more is better then less.

But we would shed almost 2m by moving him for Marchant. And we would get a good defensiveminded veteran center. Some thing we defenitely have lacked this season.

Then that 2m could be used to fill a need on the top 2 lines...
I don't know Ola. Marchant is probably not going to break 15 points this season (predication based on his last two seasons). Meanwhile is Higgins is hardly a year removed from 27 goals and 52 points. He's also solid on the PK.

Marchant is a center, right? Who's place is he going to take? It's not a good trade for the Rangers. I doubt that 2 million in cap space will make or break this season

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11-04-2009, 03:53 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
I don't know Ola. Marchant is probably not going to break 15 points this season (predication based on his last two seasons). Meanwhile is Higgins is hardly a year removed from 27 goals and 52 points. He's also solid on the PK.

Marchant is a center, right? Who's place is he going to take? It's not a good trade for the Rangers. I doubt that 2 million in cap space will make or break this season
Higgins this season have been 5x as good as Danny Fritsche was last season.

I agree there. He isn't worthless.

But, I don't think he is showing any potential to be able to carry us offensively in any way or form. And we need that. We need players who singlehandedly, on a regular basis, can get the puck up ice and create offensive chances. We have plenty of guys who "could" score 25 goals. We have nobody besides Prospal and Gabby really who have any kind of vision offensively. Who breaks the pattern.

We need that. Can Higgins fetch us that? Maybe, I don't know what value he have... But if he can't fetch us that -- we should explore dumping him and then move other assets to get it.

People are saying that we can't give up on him already. He is a 52 pts scorer after all. From my point of view I fell more like -- with Drury on board already; can we afford to wait 2-3 more year before we "belive what we are seeing"? Like Higgins is showing zero speed. He isn't skating. When he skates he don't look any faster then Sean Avery. Drury looked fast in Buffalo too.

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Old
11-04-2009, 03:56 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Well I did say "scoring" as opposed to "scorers".

Personally, I think the idea of a "play maker" is a little overrated. I don't think sticking a Savard or Thornton on the first line with Gaborik is necessarily going to yield better results than if you put a guy like Jeff Carter in their place. Player X passing to player Y only lasts until the defense is able to figure out whats going on.

What we're lacking is players with puck skills. Ability with the puck translate into time of possession, which translates into scoring chances, and.. you get the idea. We don't necessarily need a play maker for Drury and Callahan on the 2nd line, we just need a guy who's first instinct isn't to chase the puck into the corner. You can still be a goal scorer while retaining some sort of ability to pass the puck.

Sometimes chemistry is all you need to get the job done.
Yup - especially the bolded part.

How much better would this team be with someone like, oh, I don't know.... Nik Zherdev for example? I wonder what it would take to get him?

Had to be said.

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11-04-2009, 03:58 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
He had two assists in his first 2 games, so the last 13 games he has just 1 point.
Ahhh thanks for clearing that up.

I still think Higgins can be a good asset to this team. Hopefully I'm right, and hopefully that goal gets him going.

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11-04-2009, 04:02 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
yes it can. Stick a savard with Gaborik, and then put prospel on the second line, and now you have two lines with very dangerouls playmakers. Or just put Savard on the second line and team him w/ Cally and somebody else and i can guarantee they will start scoring more.
Well of course it can, but it's not a guarantee. I think either strategy would be beneficial at this point.

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i guess i didn't say what I was thinking clearly, but I want a playmaker not for the first line, but for the second line, so teams can not put their best defensive forwards and dmen on the ice at the same time and not worry about the other lines.

We are lacking that second dangerous playmaker, who can set up our secondary scorers in Kotalik, Cally, or Drury.
I understand what you mean, and I do agree with you, I'd just assume have a guy who is a better player in all aspects of the game rather than just passing.

If I were Tortorella, I'd try:

Prospal - Dubi - Gaborik
Lisin - AA - Kotalik
Avery - Boyle - Callahan
Byers - Drury - Higgins

I think that's the best use of our roster based on performance and the chemistry we've seen so far. If Tortorella likes Prospal in the middle, try Dubinsky on the wing.

Drury needs to get his **** together. Maybe 6 minutes a night will get him motivated. However, I still think he needs some PP time to try and get his scoring touch back.

Anyway, I'm a little OT at this point.

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11-04-2009, 04:37 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Why? You think a guy who is a 3/10 in the shooting department but a 9/10 in passing is a better option than the guy who's an 8 in shooting and a 6 in passing?
A guy who can help setup goals with clean crisp passes is extremely important.

If he can chip in goals too, thats awesome, but lets not act like a team of snipers is necessarily a good thing. Every type of player has their role on a team that helps it succeed, playmakers are no exception.

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11-04-2009, 04:43 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Higgins this season have been 5x as good as Danny Fritsche was last season.

I agree there. He isn't worthless.

But, I don't think he is showing any potential to be able to carry us offensively in any way or form. And we need that. We need players who singlehandedly, on a regular basis, can get the puck up ice and create offensive chances. We have plenty of guys who "could" score 25 goals. We have nobody besides Prospal and Gabby really who have any kind of vision offensively. Who breaks the pattern.

We need that. Can Higgins fetch us that? Maybe, I don't know what value he have... But if he can't fetch us that -- we should explore dumping him and then move other assets to get it.

People are saying that we can't give up on him already. He is a 52 pts scorer after all. From my point of view I fell more like -- with Drury on board already; can we afford to wait 2-3 more year before we "belive what we are seeing"? Like Higgins is showing zero speed. He isn't skating. When he skates he don't look any faster then Sean Avery. Drury looked fast in Buffalo too.
I agree that Higgins will probably always be just an average player. I wouldn't mind not resigning him or dealing him in a package for some actual help, but not if that "help" is Marchant. I just don't see the point

Higgins is a UFA after this year. If he has a bad year we can always just no resign him.

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11-04-2009, 04:43 PM
  #84
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I certainly hope this is false and more so if never happens or I will be baffled.

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Old
11-04-2009, 05:11 PM
  #85
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I saw Anaheim play the other night and they really don't have a place for Higgins. If anything, they need another defenseman.

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11-04-2009, 05:14 PM
  #86
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This sounds like the worst trade ever.

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11-04-2009, 05:22 PM
  #87
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This trade would be terrible.

Marchant is 36 years old and hasn't scored 20 goals in the NHL in 6 years.

He's been a single digit scorer since 2004.

Higgins is struggling, yes, but he is 26 and scored 20+ goals in 3 of his 4 full seasons in the NHL. And the 4th year (last year) he was injured.

Again... this trade makes no sense what so ever... which is why i will chalk this rumor up as B.S.

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11-04-2009, 05:34 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by BayAreaRanger View Post
A guy who can help setup goals with clean crisp passes is extremely important.

If he can chip in goals too, thats awesome, but lets not act like a team of snipers is necessarily a good thing. Every type of player has their role on a team that helps it succeed, playmakers are no exception.
But a guy who can only setup goals is less useful than a guy who can do both. Even if the guy isn't threading needles all day long, it provides the team with options, which is just as important.

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11-04-2009, 06:57 PM
  #89
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But a guy who can only setup goals is less useful than a guy who can do both. Even if the guy isn't threading needles all day long, it provides the team with options, which is just as important.
I can agree with that.

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11-04-2009, 07:04 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Gaborik Scores View Post
seriously?
Probably not, but hey we got Higgins and McDonagh for Gomez... So it kinda makes sense.

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11-04-2009, 08:13 PM
  #91
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Higgin's biggest value in coming over for Gomez is that we can let him walk at the end of the year for the cap room if he sukks. Trading him for a guy that sukks with a two year deal is just ridiculous.

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11-04-2009, 09:23 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
If you're right, I'm ecstatic.
Exactly how good is sbisa? I know he's a former first rounder and was part of the trade for Pronger, but i dont really know much about his actual game. Offensive player? or more of a shutdown dman?

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11-04-2009, 09:29 PM
  #93
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Exactly how good is sbisa? I know he's a former first rounder and was part of the trade for Pronger, but i dont really know much about his actual game. Offensive player? or more of a shutdown dman?
He's a puck mover. But as far as I can tell, Sbisa was only speculation from one of our posters, and nothing else.

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11-04-2009, 09:36 PM
  #94
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If Anaheim wants Higgins, who despite his struggles this season, is a legit perennial 20 goal scorer...

I want nothing less then Kyle Palmieri in return.

If it is a straight up deal, fine.

But i would want Palmieri in the deal or i hang up the phone (if i were Sather).

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11-04-2009, 09:45 PM
  #95
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i would love to have palmieri! haha

and yeah i thought Sbisa was more of a puck-mover just wanted to make sure i wasn't confusing him with anyone else

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11-04-2009, 10:03 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I don't think we really need goal scorers... I think what we really need is a playmaker. Not that Marchant fits that bill. But look at the team we have. Gabby, Kotalik, Cally, Drury, Lisin are all goal scorers first and foremost. Avery is more a goalscorer than a playmaker.

Prospal is a playmaker. Anisimov and Dubi are supposed to be playmakers, but both are still learning how to do that at this time. And truth be told I think dubi can actually be a better goalscorer than playmaker, but is being thrust into a playmaking role.

We need another bonafide playmaker whether it be on the wing or at center to shore up that #2 line, which will then help to shore up the #3 line.
Antropov has got 12 assists down in Atlanta. 12 assists in 12 games. Still early yes. But i think the Rangers should have brought him back. He also is a scoring threat with a much better shot than Higgins.
I really don't care where Higgins goes. I think Montreal got rid of him for the same reason i don't like him. He's too dam slow, he's not a natural goal scorer (like "captain crap") and he has no play making ability.
But oh yes. He can kill penalties!!!! Terrific. If the Rangers can get someone with speed to put more pressure on the defense with all these dumps and chases, (because every team is trapping them) I'm for it.
If i'm Sather, i don't want Higgins back next year anyway. Let him move closer too home and go to the Islanders.
Really, i wish the Rangers could trade Higgins and ?? for someone like Brendan Witt. That would be ideal. We need more toughness back there on the blue line.

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11-04-2009, 10:05 PM
  #97
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Palmieri would be a dream. Sbisa or him would be awesome.

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11-04-2009, 10:08 PM
  #98
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Who the hell brought up Sbisa?

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11-04-2009, 10:34 PM
  #99
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Who the hell brought up Sbisa?
I did.

Should give us all a good idea of how rumors get around so fast lol. I was being a smart ass and now people think Sbisa is being shopped.

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11-04-2009, 10:36 PM
  #100
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It is pretty funny how everyone got crazy about Sbisa, I just asked what kinda player he was and prolly added to the stupidity by doing that lol.

Oh how i love hfboards

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