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Old
11-04-2009, 11:17 PM
  #26
FissionFire
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Eh, I pretty much retired from posting here before the season started. I've given up on RWC and LGW is just a non-starter. We'll see if I return to any of them, but it seems unlikely. I've found new interests to occupy my time.

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11-06-2009, 01:10 PM
  #27
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Lidstrom is already playing better defense than last year, and the offensive drop off is easily explainable by the fact that this team is possibly the weakest offensive Red Wings team since the early 90s.

With Franzen out for the season we will likely see only 3 or 4 players top 50 points. However, if (when) the Wings make the playoffs, they will probably be the scariest team to face as they will get Franzen back just before and will likely make a big trade at the deadline.

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11-08-2009, 03:09 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat View Post
Lidstrom is already playing better defense than last year, and the offensive drop off is easily explainable by the fact that this team is possibly the weakest offensive Red Wings team since the early 90s.

With Franzen out for the season we will likely see only 3 or 4 players top 50 points. However, if (when) the Wings make the playoffs, they will probably be the scariest team to face as they will get Franzen back just before and will likely make a big trade at the deadline.
It'd be so awesome if the Wings ended up playing the Sharks in the first round.

I mean, its pretty much a no-lose situation. The Sharks are a huge "That first step is a doozy" team, so they might be takeable, and if the Wings lose, well it was to a good team, time for an off year and is a lot more palletable than some of their early exits to "inferior" teams this decade.

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11-10-2009, 01:30 PM
  #29
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Looking at Nicks decline..

2007-2008 he had 70 points (10+60) despite missing 6 games.

2008-2009 he had 59 points in 78 games.

2009-2010 he's on pace for 27 points.


And you know what, disregard the first 6-7 games this season, and I think he's playing better than he did last season. And he's always playing better when he doesn't have to cover up for Brian "please don't beat me wide" Rafalski.

Put Nick with Ericsson, he could sure use a boost of confidence.

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11-10-2009, 01:42 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Looking at Nicks decline..

2007-2008 he had 70 points (10+60) despite missing 6 games.

2008-2009 he had 59 points in 78 games.

2009-2010 he's on pace for 27 points.


And you know what, disregard the first 6-7 games this season, and I think he's playing better than he did last season. And he's always playing better when he doesn't have to cover up for Brian "please don't beat me wide" Rafalski.

Put Nick with Ericsson, he could sure use a boost of confidence.
Lids is having to play much more of a defensive game so its going to seriously affect his even strength point output. I would hardly say his points show his decline, they show his team's need to have Lidstrom be even more defensively responsible, now for the shortcomings of his partners.

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Old
11-10-2009, 03:42 PM
  #31
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LOL. Lids is so awesome defensively that he can't put up points on the powerplay?

Is that the new thing?

Jeez, Lidstrom fanboys have been trying to say that Lidstrom is by far the best the best defensiveman in the game for the last couple years -- when it was clear he was no longer the Lidstrom of the late 90s and early 00s.

They said he was by far the best Red Wing -- long after it was crystal clear that Datsyuk and Zetterberg had become the best players on the team.

Now he's off to a slow offensive start, and instead of entertaining a reasonable notion that maybe the 39-year-old has lost a bit from his game, people are saying that he's hurting in the numbers dep't because his defense is spectacular and that we wouldn't have ANY WINS without it.

LOL. Priceless.

I think it's official now: The Lidstrom fanboys are actually slower to acknowledge his decline than the Norris Trophy voters were to acknowledge his ascension.

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Old
11-10-2009, 04:08 PM
  #32
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So besides stating the obvious, is there anything else to take away from this thread?

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11-10-2009, 04:31 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Looking at Nicks decline..

2007-2008 he had 70 points (10+60) despite missing 6 games.

2008-2009 he had 59 points in 78 games.

2009-2010 he's on pace for 27 points.


And you know what, disregard the first 6-7 games this season, and I think he's playing better than he did last season. And he's always playing better when he doesn't have to cover up for Brian "please don't beat me wide" Rafalski.

Put Nick with Ericsson, he could sure use a boost of confidence.
Cleary, Bertuzzi and Datsyuk are on pace for ten goals a piece and Z is on pace for all of 21. Rafalski is on pace for like 39 points. I don't think any of them will keep producing so little. Outside of Holmstrom (and Maltby ), a lot of guys are on the decline this season. With Lidstrom gaining the majority of his points off assists, the impotence of the forwards will hit his point totals hard. On top of that, Lidstrom is a slow starter.

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Old
11-10-2009, 05:21 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Three Swedish hockey "knowers" on tv discussed Lidstrom when they talked about the upcoming Olympics.

They all agreed that he wasn't the same old Nick, and I agree. But then at the end one of them said that Nick wasn't even top-5 anymore, more like top-20.

What do you think?
I remember once one of those hockey "experts" calling Draper the real power forward and I just wow "did I hear this right". Those experts can say some real stupid things.
Our best players, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Z have started slow, we'll how it develops.

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11-11-2009, 07:36 AM
  #35
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Yeah Mike Green is much better!!!!






















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11-11-2009, 07:52 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordic View Post
Three Swedish hockey "knowers" on tv discussed Lidstrom when they talked about the upcoming Olympics.

They all agreed that he wasn't the same old Nick, and I agree. But then at the end one of them said that Nick wasn't even top-5 anymore, more like top-20.

What do you think?
Laughable. I'm assuming your refering to the episodes of "Powerplay" on Aftonbladet ?

Thomas Ros and Lasse Anrell...

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Old
11-11-2009, 11:19 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Trotzig View Post
Laughable. I'm assuming your refering to the episodes of "Powerplay" on Aftonbladet ?

Thomas Ros and Lasse Anrell...
I believe it was Anrell, hehe...

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Old
11-11-2009, 12:52 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
He's +7 on the 25th best defense in the league. The next best Wing defender is even. Sure his points are down, but if he changed his focus we wouldn't have any wins at this point. Historically he's been a slow starter offensively anyway.
looking at your signature... i swear that all teams have their captains and alternate captains wear the "C" or the "A" on the left side of their jersey, on their heart? and its funny cuz i just saw another pic of lidstrom wearing the "C" on his left side lol just a thought

right side


left side

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Old
11-11-2009, 08:45 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Rizzy13 View Post
looking at your signature... i swear that all teams have their captains and alternate captains wear the "C" or the "A" on the left side of their jersey, on their heart? and its funny cuz i just saw another pic of lidstrom wearing the "C" on his left side lol just a thought

right side


left side
I can't tell you why it happened, but when the RBK Edge jerseys were brought in the Wings decided to put the "C" and "A" on the right shoulder, which you can see from the pictures you included matches with the jerseys (the Edge one has the NHL shield at the neck, the older jersey does not).

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11-11-2009, 08:49 PM
  #40
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Hahaha, thank you OP!!!

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Old
11-12-2009, 06:42 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
LOL. Lids is so awesome defensively that he can't put up points on the powerplay?

Is that the new thing?

Jeez, Lidstrom fanboys have been trying to say that Lidstrom is by far the best the best defensiveman in the game for the last couple years -- when it was clear he was no longer the Lidstrom of the late 90s and early 00s.

They said he was by far the best Red Wing -- long after it was crystal clear that Datsyuk and Zetterberg had become the best players on the team.

Now he's off to a slow offensive start, and instead of entertaining a reasonable notion that maybe the 39-year-old has lost a bit from his game, people are saying that he's hurting in the numbers dep't because his defense is spectacular and that we wouldn't have ANY WINS without it.

LOL. Priceless.

I think it's official now: The Lidstrom fanboys are actually slower to acknowledge his decline than the Norris Trophy voters were to acknowledge his ascension.
Don't ever stop, Newsy. It just isn't a Wings board without your constant, subtle trolls.

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Old
11-12-2009, 07:30 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
LOL. Lids is so awesome defensively that he can't put up points on the powerplay?

Is that the new thing?

Jeez, Lidstrom fanboys have been trying to say that Lidstrom is by far the best the best defensiveman in the game for the last couple years -- when it was clear he was no longer the Lidstrom of the late 90s and early 00s.

They said he was by far the best Red Wing -- long after it was crystal clear that Datsyuk and Zetterberg had become the best players on the team.

Now he's off to a slow offensive start, and instead of entertaining a reasonable notion that maybe the 39-year-old has lost a bit from his game, people are saying that he's hurting in the numbers dep't because his defense is spectacular and that we wouldn't have ANY WINS without it.

LOL. Priceless.

I think it's official now: The Lidstrom fanboys are actually slower to acknowledge his decline than the Norris Trophy voters were to acknowledge his ascension.
He's no Maxim Kuznetzov, that's for sure.

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Old
11-12-2009, 09:51 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat View Post
Don't ever stop, Newsy. It just isn't a Wings board without your constant, subtle trolls.
To me, what's trolling, is suggesting that the Wings wouldn't have won a game this season if Lidstrom wasn't so "great defensively."

Some Wings fans aren't so immature that we have to see sunshine and lollipops in everything we see.

Lidstrom is still a good defenseman. But he's not going to be in the talk for a Norris this year. Nor should he.
At this point in his career, he's still a good #1 defenseman. And I think we should be pretty damn satisfied with that.

We shouldn't have to exaggerate what he is. Because he's good enough without it.

Brian Rafalksi fans, on the other hand, have some exaggerating to do

Meanwhile, did Nik Kronwall have a game yesterday, or what?
That little spin around move to keep the puck in on the PP a few seconds before his goal was pure skill. And his second goal was incredible.

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Old
11-12-2009, 10:02 AM
  #44
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Will be interesting to see if there's three new candidates at the end of the year. Mike Green won't put up record numbers so he won't get a default nomination and Chara hasn't looked very good at all.

Chris Pronger will probably be an odds on favorite since he's moved to the Eastern Conference. Other than that, maybe Dan Boyle gets a nomination since he should've been there last year over Green.

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11-12-2009, 10:02 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Jeez, Lidstrom fanboys have been trying to say that Lidstrom is by far the best the best defensiveman in the game for the last couple years -- when it was clear he was no longer the Lidstrom of the late 90s and early 00s.
You make it sound like the second statement invalidates the first, when in fact it's possible for both to be true. No, Lidstrom is not as good as he was from 1997-2003 in the past few years. But he has still been by far the best defenseman in the game, as evidenced by his 3 blowout Norris trophy wins in the past 4 years, because the rest of the defensemen in the league aren't as good as the rest were in Lidstrom's prime.

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Old
11-12-2009, 04:39 PM
  #46
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You make it sound like the second statement invalidates the first, when in fact it's possible for both to be true. No, Lidstrom is not as good as he was from 1997-2003 in the past few years. But he has still been by far the best defenseman in the game, as evidenced by his 3 blowout Norris trophy wins in the past 4 years, because the rest of the defensemen in the league aren't as good as the rest were in Lidstrom's prime.
Norris Trophies aren't evidence of anything, as evidenced by Lidstrom not winning them sooner than he did, or Konstantinov never winning one.
The Norris Trophy, perhaps more than any other trophy, is a reputation trophies. It tends to take the vote a while to catch up with with the actual landscape of the league. Why? Because playing defense can be kind of a subtle thing. Unless someone has stats that blow every one away, or unless there is a significant decline or an injury to the reigning winner, there's a good chance voters will just vote for the previous year's winner. Especially when said defensemen is the #1 defenseman for a perennial cup contender.

I think Lidstrom deserves one post-lockout Norris.
I think he was robbed at least twice early in his career.
I think Chara has should have two Norris Trophies to his name at this point.
And I bet that, if Chara puts up even decent stats, that he'll be a nominee again this year, as long as the Bruins make the playoffs. Why? He's the reigning winner. Reputation.

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11-12-2009, 04:49 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Will be interesting to see if there's three new candidates at the end of the year. Mike Green won't put up record numbers so he won't get a default nomination and Chara hasn't looked very good at all.

Chris Pronger will probably be an odds on favorite since he's moved to the Eastern Conference. Other than that, maybe Dan Boyle gets a nomination since he should've been there last year over Green.
Yeah. Pronger. Boyle. Weber. Chara.
I'm guessing we'll hear something about Green, Lidstrom, Kaberle (being in TO), maybe Keith and Phaneuf, too.

By the way, anyone notice the icetime for Wings defensemen?
Lidstrom still #1 at 24:11
But 2A, 2B and 2C after that.
Rafalski — 22:18
Stuart — 22:09
Kronwall — 22:06

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11-12-2009, 06:46 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
By the way, anyone notice the icetime for Wings defensemen?
Lidstrom still #1 at 24:11
But 2A, 2B and 2C after that.
Rafalski — 22:18
Stuart — 22:09
Kronwall — 22:06
Does that surprise you? Honestly, the only thing even remotely interesting about that is that Lidstrom is still over 24 minutes. By the end of the year I'm pretty sure he'll be closer to 23 than 24, at least if Babcock has a moderately healthy blue line.

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Old
11-12-2009, 09:48 PM
  #49
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Norris Trophies aren't evidence of anything, as evidenced by Lidstrom not winning them sooner than he did, or Konstantinov never winning one.
The Norris Trophy, perhaps more than any other trophy, is a reputation trophies. It tends to take the vote a while to catch up with with the actual landscape of the league. Why? Because playing defense can be kind of a subtle thing. Unless someone has stats that blow every one away, or unless there is a significant decline or an injury to the reigning winner, there's a good chance voters will just vote for the previous year's winner. Especially when said defensemen is the #1 defenseman for a perennial cup contender.

I think Lidstrom deserves one post-lockout Norris.
I think he was robbed at least twice early in his career.
I think Chara has should have two Norris Trophies to his name at this point.
And I bet that, if Chara puts up even decent stats, that he'll be a nominee again this year, as long as the Bruins make the playoffs. Why? He's the reigning winner. Reputation.
All right then let's hear exactly which ones he didn't deserve and who was supposedly the better defenseman that year.

I think Lidstrom has been the best overall defenseman in the league every year since the lockout, and the only reason he didn't win last season is because he has to compete both against the other players in the league and earlier versions of himself.

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11-12-2009, 09:54 PM
  #50
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All right then let's hear exactly which ones he didn't deserve and who was supposedly the better defenseman that year.

I think Lidstrom has been the best overall defenseman in the league every year since the lockout, and the only reason he didn't win last season is because he has to compete both against the other players in the league and earlier versions of himself.
Well, if you really think Lidstrom was the league's best defenseman last year, then there really isn't much for us to talk about.

I think the reason why he didn't win last year is because around the league, there are good defensemen who are too good to ignore.
Chara put up very good offensive numbers and he played dominating defense with the kind of physical presence that changes the way opponents play.

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