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Zherdev or Kotalik

View Poll Results: Either on Kotalik's 3 year 9 million deal - Who would you rather have?
Kotalik 130 75.58%
Zherdev 28 16.28%
Tie - I can't decide. 14 8.14%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-06-2009, 10:46 AM
  #26
KRM
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I really like what he has done so far but still, I'd rather we had kept Zherdev. But obviously it didn't work out so Kotalik was a great replacement.

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11-06-2009, 10:48 AM
  #27
Celestial Black
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I would have rather had Z.

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Old
11-06-2009, 10:51 AM
  #28
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Kotalik has had a good start and has helped groom MDZ, and Zherdev frustrated the crap out of me. But the talent gap is enough, and Z is young enough, that for that contract I still say Z, unless Kotalik becomes a 30 goal scorer here.

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Old
11-06-2009, 10:54 AM
  #29
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Kotalik has 12 points on the PP. Zherdev had 11 the whole season. Now I don't know if he'll keep it up all season, but with the way Kotalik & the PP are playing, I can see him easily surpassing Zherdev's total of 58 points from last season.

The fact that he is such an important piece of the powerplay cannot be underestimated. Having a good powerplay is so important in that it helps open up your guys since teams are going to be much more hesitant to take penalties against you. Zherdev didn't provide that.

It's funny though, 9 people voted Zherdev, yet reading the actual text of the thread it feels like half did.

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Old
11-06-2009, 10:55 AM
  #30
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During the course of last season, Zherdev struck me as Alex Kovalev with even less heart.

God knows why any of us would want to go through that again.

I'll take Kotalik, at least on his early showing. Fills a need - the booming, on-target point shot has been a major Rangers' PP problem for years, and now it seems to be fixed.

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Old
11-06-2009, 11:27 AM
  #31
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Talent means little when its a bad fit for the team. I'd rather have Kotalik then a fragile kid like Zherdev. Big fan of his talent, but he seems like the type that needs to be coddled.

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Old
11-06-2009, 11:27 AM
  #32
GeorgeHamiltonsTan
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its a little early to say but im definately in favor of Kotalik for the sole reason that he hustles away from the puck. Z was so damn lazy away from the puck, if he didnt have it he wasnt interested and it showed. So far Kotalik has shown a far greater work ethic, and the shot certainly helps. as far as im concerned, Zherdev who?

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Old
11-06-2009, 11:36 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
Kotalik has 12 points on the PP. Zherdev had 11 the whole season. Now I don't know if he'll keep it up all season, but with the way Kotalik & the PP are playing, I can see him easily surpassing Zherdev's total of 58 points from last season.

The fact that he is such an important piece of the powerplay cannot be underestimated. Having a good powerplay is so important in that it helps open up your guys since teams are going to be much more hesitant to take penalties against you. Zherdev didn't provide that.

It's funny though, 9 people voted Zherdev, yet reading the actual text of the thread it feels like half did.
You can't compare the teams. Z on this offensively balanced Ranger team would produce. Kotalik does nothing away from the PP. Nothing. It's the sme argument that went around for Zherdev vs Drury or Callahan. You pt players in aposition to succeed they more likely than not will. How much is Captain Nyquil producing now that he's off the PP? Callahan? Kotaliks 12 points would impress me more without DZ and Gabby. But I'm appy he's producing. But on't kid yourself.

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Old
11-06-2009, 11:50 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
You can't compare the teams. Z on this offensively balanced Ranger team would produce. Kotalik does nothing away from the PP. Nothing. It's the sme argument that went around for Zherdev vs Drury or Callahan. You pt players in aposition to succeed they more likely than not will. How much is Captain Nyquil producing now that he's off the PP? Callahan? Kotaliks 12 points would impress me more without DZ and Gabby. But I'm appy he's producing. But on't kid yourself.
Hasn't he scored like 3 even strength goals as well?

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Old
11-06-2009, 11:55 AM
  #35
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Kotalik, because he's not a lazy player... Or doesn't have the reputation of being moody. When Zherdev was on fire in the beginning part of last season, I didn't believe he was going to be playing as if he was going to have heart for the whole year. He just looked like he had some sort of attitude.

Other than that, I'd take Kotalik because he has a freaking mortar and he knows how to work the power play.

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Old
11-06-2009, 11:58 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by GeorgeHamiltonsTan View Post
its a little early to say but im definately in favor of Kotalik for the sole reason that he hustles away from the puck. Z was so damn lazy away from the puck, if he didnt have it he wasnt interested and it showed. So far Kotalik has shown a far greater work ethic, and the shot certainly helps. as far as im concerned, Zherdev who?
lol

He's a KHL player now... That shows how special he was.

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Old
11-06-2009, 12:06 PM
  #37
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what has Zherdev done to deserve anyone of this praise? why are people desperate to see Zherdev play under Torts? He HAS! Zherdev is Kovalev except less heart, worse decision making and gets knocked off the puck easier than anyone in the league.

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Old
11-06-2009, 12:10 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
By the way, guess which Ranger is a team-worst -6?
This is because power play goals don't give you a plus and he plays on lines often that do not score goals. I think that stat is misleading for Kotalik.

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Old
11-06-2009, 12:23 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by sousuffer View Post
This is because power play goals don't give you a plus and he plays on lines often that do not score goals. I think that stat is misleading for Kotalik.
Most of the players on the team play on lines that do not score. Thus, negative +/- expected. Why does he have the worst +/- on the team at ES?

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Old
11-06-2009, 12:24 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Most of the players on the team play on lines that do not score. Thus, negative +/- expected. Why does he have the worst +/- on the team at ES?
because it is such an important stat that clearly shows who the best and worst defensive players in the league are... right?

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Old
11-06-2009, 12:27 PM
  #41
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I'd go with Kotalik but I do have some reservations. Neither of the two are very good on the defensive side of the game. I think Kotalik is more prone to taking bad penalties--Zherdev to avoiding hits. Kotalik has made our pwp more effective with his shot and that's the deciding factor for me. I would say that Zherdev had a great start last year and Kotalik (like Z) is known to be an inconsistent player and this question might be better asked later on towards the end of the season.

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Old
11-06-2009, 12:30 PM
  #42
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Agreed that they're different players. Also agree that Zherdev is more effective at ES than Kotalik.

On paper, Gaborik and Zherdev look like a match made in heaven. Fast, agile, magicians with the puck. Our own Ovechkin/Semin combo. You'd also hope that Gaborik's attitude would rub-off on Zherdev and finally get him to pull his head out of his ass.

In reality, I doubt we'd see any of that happen. Plus, Zherdev said he didn't like playing on his off-wing, so that probably doesn't bode well for a Zherdev - Prospal - Gaborik line.
Agree on all counts.

I doubt we would have seen it either, well... maybe for a stretch of about 3 or 4 games just to tease us.

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Old
11-06-2009, 01:38 PM
  #43
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Kotalik but not by much. He addressed a major, major major need. Zherdev, as great as he could be, didnt help the PP.

I liked the trade for Zherdev but all in all he had too many bleh moments. Kotalik is no all star, but as a lot of us said in July, he will make his money when it counts.

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Old
11-06-2009, 01:46 PM
  #44
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Oh, and the whole 'Kotalik is brutal at even strength" is totally blown out of proportion.

Hes not a force at even strength, but he isnt awful. People make it seem like hes useless out there at ES.

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Old
11-06-2009, 02:53 PM
  #45
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For all the people who are saying Zherdev, how do you account for the fact that there wasn't ONE NHL team that was willing to sign him? If he's so good why isn't he an Islander? A Maple Leaf? A Panther?

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11-06-2009, 02:56 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
For all the people who are saying Zherdev, how do you account for the fact that there wasn't ONE NHL team that was willing to sign him? If he's so good why isn't he an Islander? A Maple Leaf? A Panther?
That he wasn't signed by an NHL team had nothing to do with his talent. Teams seemed to view him as "toxic" based off of his preexisting attitude questions, and then the contract negotiation fiasco with the Rangers seemed to be the nail in the coffin. But it definitely wasn't a talent issue. Are you arguing that he's not talented?

EDIT: Because I'm not considering the whole deal with the contract, since we're assuming that it's either Kotalik or Zherdev at 3Y/9M. If it's Kotalik at $3M per or Zherdev at $3M per, for three seasons, I'd take Zherdev. I think he'd give us equal or better production, with the chance (a shrinking chance) that he puts it all together and goes 30-60-90 or something crazy.

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Old
11-06-2009, 03:07 PM
  #47
GeorgeHamiltonsTan
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
That he wasn't signed by an NHL team had nothing to do with his talent. Teams seemed to view him as "toxic" based off of his preexisting attitude questions, and then the contract negotiation fiasco with the Rangers seemed to be the nail in the coffin. But it definitely wasn't a talent issue. Are you arguing that he's not talented?

EDIT: Because I'm not considering the whole deal with the contract, since we're assuming that it's either Kotalik or Zherdev at 3Y/9M. If it's Kotalik at $3M per or Zherdev at $3M per, for three seasons, I'd take Zherdev. I think he'd give us equal or better production, with the chance (a shrinking chance) that he puts it all together and goes 30-60-90 or something crazy.
on what planet would zherdev assert effort long enough to pile up those kinds of numbers? certainly not this one. he's a diva, let him snpa his fingers in a Z formation (pun intended) all season long in the KHL, his reputation finally ruined him here.

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Old
11-06-2009, 03:11 PM
  #48
WhipNash27
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Kovalev is more talented with his eyes closed than Zherdev. Such a bad comparison. He's bigger, much stronger, can be feisty, better stickhandler, and is just an overall better player. Kovalev is one of the if not the greatest stickhandler to ever play the game. It's a shame he never could put it all together on a consistent basis.

Sure they both have lapses of "I don't care" hockey, but that's as much as I see in similarities.

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Old
11-06-2009, 03:13 PM
  #49
haveandare
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
That he wasn't signed by an NHL team had nothing to do with his talent. Teams seemed to view him as "toxic" based off of his preexisting attitude questions, and then the contract negotiation fiasco with the Rangers seemed to be the nail in the coffin. But it definitely wasn't a talent issue. Are you arguing that he's not talented?
I'm not arguing that he's not talented, but I am arguing that if he is better or arguably as good all around (not in wrist shot, not in intensity, but as an entire asset to a hockey team) as Kotalik is, it would seem to me that he would be on A team right now. I can't agree with you that not being signed has nothing to do with talent, because if you are talented enough, you will have a spot on an NHL roster despite what seemingly huge downside you may have. If you can score goals or pass the puck with the best of them, there will always be a team that needs that skill regardless of attitude questions or contract negotiation problems. That being said, I'm not claiming that Zherdev isn't talented, when he felt like playing heart and soul he lifted me out of my seat and in general I thought that not signing him was a mistake at the time. However, as an entire asset to a team, he isn't on the NHL level in my opinion. He can shoot well, he can pass very well, but he has little heart and even less overall intensity, two things that are a must in any professional athlete.

Looking back on my last post and your answer though, you're probably right that "talented" isn't the right word. What I meant was that if he were overall as valuable a player as Kotalik, why isn't he in the league?

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Old
11-06-2009, 03:40 PM
  #50
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I would have rather had Z.
Seconded.

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