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Zherdev or Kotalik

View Poll Results: Either on Kotalik's 3 year 9 million deal - Who would you rather have?
Kotalik 130 75.58%
Zherdev 28 16.28%
Tie - I can't decide. 14 8.14%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
11-06-2009, 10:54 PM
  #76
NY Ranger86
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Passing? Zherdev
Skating? eh Tie
Stick handling? Zherdev
Shot? Kotalik
Power Play? Kotalik

Lets put it this way...

3 years 3 million per. Zherdev>Kotalik

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11-06-2009, 10:56 PM
  #77
mullichicken25
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im one of the idiots that voted Zherdev

haha

I love Kotalik RIGHT NOW....but three years is a long time and i have very little doubt that people on this board will be calling for his head before that contract is up

for 3 mil for 3 years i really feel like Z had the bigger upside...i still stick by my opinion that Nik would have been tearing ***** up this season with this team but hey,i cant prove it

but with all that being said...i love everything Kotalik is doing on the ice so far this season, here's to hoping he keeps up this level of play for the remainder of that contract!

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Old
11-07-2009, 12:24 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
im one of the idiots that voted Zherdev

haha

I love Kotalik RIGHT NOW....but three years is a long time and i have very little doubt that people on this board will be calling for his head before that contract is up

for 3 mil for 3 years i really feel like Z had the bigger upside...i still stick by my opinion that Nik would have been tearing ***** up this season with this team but hey,i cant prove it

but with all that being said...i love everything Kotalik is doing on the ice so far this season, here's to hoping he keeps up this level of play for the remainder of that contract!
I can't help but see this "but I would have had Z for 3/3mill instead" quote by so many people. The guy wanted $4.5M a year! he was never, ever going to sign for that amount until he realized that he was an idiot and no other nhl team was willing to sign him after he had his arbitration hearing and was let go. The guy is your quintessential me-first diva player. on top of that he was garbage while torts was here, and I doubt it would have gotten better. Though at the time I thought it was a mistake, the proof is in the pudding: Kotalik all the way on this one.

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Old
11-07-2009, 01:42 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Ranger86 View Post
Passing? Zherdev
Skating? eh Tie
Stick handling? Zherdev
Shot? Kotalik
Power Play? Kotalik

Lets put it this way...

3 years 3 million per. Zherdev>Kotalik
You don't know what you're talking about.

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Old
11-07-2009, 01:45 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
It's just silly. We had Zherdev for a year, and it didn't work out. People know that. We've had Kotalik for a month, and so far it has worked out. How will it look at the end of the year? Who knows.

If one year ago today, this same question was asked, this thread would be mocked. At that time, Zherdev looked wonderful, like a player we always wanted. Ales Kotalik was starting his third of three consecutive "meh" seasons. It wouldn't be close if you asked it then. So maybe we ought to wait more than 17 games before declaring Kotalik light years ahead of Zherdev...

Again, I like Ales Kotalik. He's a good player. But he's also a guy that routinely goes 8-10 games without scoring. Two years ago he went 14 games without a goal! The year before, 13 games!

The other knock on Zherdev--where was he in the playoffs? Does anyone care that Kotalik's last time in the playoffs, he had 4 points in 16 games? None in the 5 games loss to Ottawa? Granted, the two previous playoff performances, Kotalik was solid. But Zherdev only has the one performance, so that's what everyone has him pegged as.

I get that a lot of people dislike Zherdev for various reasons, reasons that they've established from experience. But do those that dislike Zherdev really know Ales Kotalik, and how freaking streaky the guy is? I'm not even arguing that someone is wrong for preferring Kotalik to Zherdev--I totally understand there's a solid rationale for that preference. But all this rhetoric--"Kotalik, not even close", "Zherdev is a bum", "Is this a trick question?"--it's just stupid.
Sensibility? Where am I and how did I get here?

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Old
11-07-2009, 03:23 AM
  #81
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Zherdev is hands down better player. Hockey forward is about stick handling and skating. That is what makes you dominant. Good shot could make you productive, but then someone has to be dominant FOR YOU. That's the story with Kotalik. He is an average skater with below average stick handling skills. That is why he is only good on PP where domination is predisposed.
Alex (I refuse to call him Ales) is a good signing, but he is no Zherdev replacement. Nick's replacement is Lisin and by now it is quite apparent that Sather has miscalculated the move. Letting Z go was an obvious mistake. Lisin is promising, but he will follow Zherdev's footsteps, i.e. he is a few years away from Z level. For that time Zherdev must have been kept.
So you're saying that the "dominant" player sets up the goals for the scorer who is just "productive"? Interesting theory. A dominant player DOMINATES and neither Zherdev nor Kotalik are dominant.

Zherdev is the more SKILLED player, the BETTER player is the one PRODUCING on the ice - not in NHL 10 on the Xbox 360. Kotalik is the BETTER player because he's producing actual results and not simply showing all this theoretical potential that is not quite realized on the ice (but is always realized in a video game which is based on skill ratings - there, and only there, is Zherdev "dominant").

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11-07-2009, 05:07 AM
  #82
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Kotalik. It's enough to base that on that Zherdev was a headcase.

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11-07-2009, 09:03 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Lundqvist4Vezina View Post
lol

He's a KHL player now... That shows how special he was.
Don't let the facts get in the way of making smug pseudo comments. AT the time of his award most teams had already spent their available cap space on sigings. Z is more skillful than 70%-80% of the league.

If Kotalik was "all that" why would the Rangers be in the running to get Forsberg? The Bafoon from Banf-f-f screwed the pooch on this one.

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11-07-2009, 09:04 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gresch04 View Post
So you're saying that the "dominant" player sets up the goals for the scorer who is just "productive"? Interesting theory. A dominant player DOMINATES and neither Zherdev nor Kotalik are dominant.

Zherdev is the more SKILLED player, the BETTER player is the one PRODUCING on the ice - not in NHL 10 on the Xbox 360. Kotalik is the BETTER player because he's producing actual results and not simply showing all this theoretical potential that is not quite realized on the ice (but is always realized in a video game which is based on skill ratings - there, and only there, is Zherdev "dominant").
When he was here Z co-led the team in scoring. End of story. He produced.

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:05 AM
  #85
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Kotalik. Love having the big shot from point on the PP.

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:09 AM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Ranger86 View Post
Passing? Zherdev
Skating? eh Tie
Stick handling? Zherdev
Shot? Kotalik
Power Play? Kotalik

Lets put it this way...

3 years 3 million per. Zherdev>Kotalik
IMO Zherdev is clearly a better skater than Kotalik. As for the PP, you can't outright state that Kotalik is better. Put Zherdev on this years version of the Rangers and I'm confident he would do some damage. Granted his doesn't have Kotalik's Canon.

The guy couldn't even play on the 3rd line for Buffalo. All the sudden he's on the Rangers and he gains super abilities. He's a nice player. I always wanted him for the Rangers when Lindy was glueing his ass to the bench in Buffalo. He's here. Zherdev is gone. Let's move on.

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11-07-2009, 09:10 AM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richter35 View Post
I can't help but see this "but I would have had Z for 3/3mill instead" quote by so many people. The guy wanted $4.5M a year! he was never, ever going to sign for that amount until he realized that he was an idiot and no other nhl team was willing to sign him after he had his arbitration hearing and was let go. The guy is your quintessential me-first diva player. on top of that he was garbage while torts was here, and I doubt it would have gotten better. Though at the time I thought it was a mistake, the proof is in the pudding: Kotalik all the way on this one.
It's a good thing you do not negotiate contract for a living.

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11-07-2009, 09:14 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by FutureGM97 View Post
Kotalik has already brought more to the table in 17 games than Zherdev did over the course of an entire season....no contest...this is Kotalik.
What do you mean by "brought more to the table? I honestly do not understand. You are aware all the cards have been reshuffled and there is no way you can make a quantitative comparison between the two, aren't you?

Let's see where the chips fall at the end of the season before declaring a result that hasn't happened.

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11-07-2009, 09:15 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by darko View Post
Zherdev wanted more than 3 mill, didn't he? Something in the neighborhood of 4.25 if I recall correctly. Gimme Kotalik as he fills a bigger need and is not a cancer.
Where do you get this garbage?

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11-07-2009, 09:22 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
It's just silly. We had Zherdev for a year, and it didn't work out. People know that. We've had Kotalik for a month, and so far it has worked out. How will it look at the end of the year? Who knows.

If one year ago today, this same question was asked, this thread would be mocked. At that time, Zherdev looked wonderful, like a player we always wanted. Ales Kotalik was starting his third of three consecutive "meh" seasons. It wouldn't be close if you asked it then. So maybe we ought to wait more than 17 games before declaring Kotalik light years ahead of Zherdev...

Again, I like Ales Kotalik. He's a good player. But he's also a guy that routinely goes 8-10 games without scoring. Two years ago he went 14 games without a goal! The year before, 13 games!

The other knock on Zherdev--where was he in the playoffs? Does anyone care that Kotalik's last time in the playoffs, he had 4 points in 16 games? None in the 5 games loss to Ottawa? Granted, the two previous playoff performances, Kotalik was solid. But Zherdev only has the one performance, so that's what everyone has him pegged as.

I get that a lot of people dislike Zherdev for various reasons, reasons that they've established from experience. But do those that dislike Zherdev really know Ales Kotalik, and how freaking streaky the guy is? I'm not even arguing that someone is wrong for preferring Kotalik to Zherdev--I totally understand there's a solid rationale for that preference. But all this rhetoric--"Kotalik, not even close", "Zherdev is a bum", "Is this a trick question?"--it's just stupid.
You lucidity brings a tear to my eyes. See Avatar. Just irks me when 15 year olds make these baseless comments cause they have a woody for a player that doing well. Last year one couldn't say a single bad word about Dreary and Cally. I was blue in the face arguing that they were put in positions to succeed and would been seen for what they are sooner rather than later. I haven't seen many Cally will score 30 post since the season began. Don't get me started on Captain Nyquil.

Nice post nyr2k

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:24 AM
  #91
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Kotalik hands down. So far he has done what he has always done though out his career, shoot the puck & score on the PP

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11-07-2009, 09:33 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by rvdnsx View Post
He signed with a club in the KHL, Atlant I believe. And for very little money as well according to reports, I'm guessing under 2 million per year. It was even reported that he came back to the Rangers seeing if they would accept the Rangers' pre arbitration number, but of course no cap space. Or it might've been Glen saying "You spit on me, I spit on you."
The Rangers clearly had no space left thanks to Kotalik, Brashear, et.al. Zherdev's time with the Rangers is done. Most Aritraitors don't get a second change from the Baffoon from Banf-f-f.

To those that use the fact he's playing in the KHL as proof that no one want's him I say that if you don't take the timing of the award and the amount into consideration then you are not interested in facts, just bluster. You can't tell me talentless teams like Toronto wouldn't die for an upgrade at forward. Look at Carolina. Oh, and wouldn't Babs look good at the point.

I "get" that there is no love for Z, but the vitriol is what's escaping me.

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11-07-2009, 09:41 AM
  #93
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.

while there's no question that Zherdev is much more talented (save the shot) Kotalik is pretty talented and he had much better hockey sense than Nik.

Based on the hockey sense issue alone, I'd prefer to have Kotalik.

Add into it that he serves a much more needed roll as a PP point man with that shot of his and I don;t think that there's really any comparison.

Kotalik has proven to be exactly what the Rangers needed and Zherdev in his time here, did not.

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Old
11-07-2009, 09:54 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
Wow its overwhelming how many people are backing zherdev.....obviously he has more talent then kotalik....but you cant compare the talent....look at what each would have done for the team....our PP has easily won us half our games alone....Kotalik is much more valuble to us then zherdev is or ever will be.....Kotalik shot is such a bomb that it will start opning up plays down low for guys like gaborik and prospal....prime example look at callys goal last night....wingers were so concerned about kotalik at the point the winger was to high to get back at cally and although very nice pass by del zotto which by the way kotalik had the pressence under pressure to make a perfect pass to DZ while moving ..i know its early still long season to go but as for now kotalik 10 fold.....17 pp goals in 17 games...not too shabby
17 pp goals in 17 games Where? NHL 10?

You can glorify Ales "The Great" Kotalik all you want, but his body of work is there for anyone interested in the facts. He's a flawed winger that throughout his career has averaged around 15 ATOI per season. Who in his best year 05-06 and 07-08 scored 10 and 12 PPG respectively (again, while averging 15 minutes per game). Never, ever been a plus (+/-) player. Not even on a sound defensive team like Buffalo.

Of course Kotalik is more valuable. He's on the team THIS year; Duh. The Rangers changed around 60% (too lazy to look it up) and added a superstar and a pp QB. If you change most of the variables in a control test it stands to reason the results will differ.

It's alright to champion your man, but why diss Z? He put up numbers whether you want to aknowledge this FACT or not. Who are you going to "pimp" if/when Kotalik ***** the bed inthe POs?

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11-07-2009, 10:12 AM
  #95
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Zherdev is a slacker who was looking for big bucks. Certainly not the kind of player I'd want on my team. Kotalik has been great for us at a reasonable price.

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11-07-2009, 10:33 AM
  #96
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Kotalik. I don't think Zherdev would have survived under Tortorella.

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11-07-2009, 11:28 AM
  #97
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Kotalik has that booming shot. The one he used against Edmonton to give Rangers a 3-1 lead. I have no idea how teams leave him open to shoot like that. Zherdev is younger and would bring more offense at even strength but he might not do much better behind Gaborik than Higgins or Drury is doing now.

Maybe if they traded Rozsival knowing that Del Zotto and Gilroy would be this good than Zherdev would still be a Ranger but I fear he would not get more minutes than Callahan. Having said that I think Kotalik is a better fit for the team right now.

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11-07-2009, 11:47 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by AXN View Post
Kotalik has that booming shot. The one he used against Edmonton to give Rangers a 3-1 lead. I have no idea how teams leave him open to shoot like that. Zherdev is younger and would bring more offense at even strength but he might not do much better behind Gaborik than Higgins or Drury is doing now.

Maybe if they traded Rozsival knowing that Del Zotto and Gilroy would be this good than Zherdev would still be a Ranger but I fear he would not get more minutes than Callahan. Having said that I think Kotalik is a better fit for the team right now.
I agree his a better fit this year. But don't forget what the Rangers looked like when Gabby was out for a few games. Don't kid yourself, we are a flawed team.

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Old
11-07-2009, 12:35 PM
  #99
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While Kotalik has been a solid addition to the powerplay and his shot has been an asset, I agree with sting, everything else about his game is pretty weak. His even strength play is awful - I wish we'd keep him on the 4th line and just let him be a special teams guy.

And his shot annoys me, he misses the net way too often, and when it does miss the net it winds around the boards and creates odd man rushes for the other team. I get that when he hits the net he's real likely to score...but he misses the net way too much.

I think the powerplay would still be plenty productive without Kotalik. The resurgence and success of the powerplay should be credited to first and foremost Tortarella and the coaching staff, secondly Gaborik, and on top of that MDZ. Del Zotto's natural instinct and understanding of where to go with the puck on the powerplay is amazing for a 19 year old rookie.

It's already been mentioned but we REALLY could use playmaking ability on the 2nd or 3rd line. Zherdev would fill that void. There's no doubt Z would be a good asset on the powerplay too...a different asset, but an asset regardless. Would've been interesting to see how Anisimov played with Z. When Dubi isnt on the 1st line...he always had good chemistry with Z.

Zherdev, in my opinion, would've without a doubt been a more valuable asset. I don't know whether or not it was that realistic to keep Zherdev on good terms - between arbitration, and how Z and Torts seemed to not get along...so I'm not completely upset with the Kotalik signing anymore I guess....just wish it wasn't for $3mil/year for 3 years. Kotalik is a 700K player with a shot that maybe makes him worth $1.5mil/year. He's overpaid like many others on this team, and it probably gets overshadowed because of Drury, Redden, and Roszival

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11-07-2009, 12:36 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXN View Post
Zherdev is younger and would bring more offense at even strength but he might not do much better behind Gaborik than Higgins or Drury is doing now.
He did better behind Gomez and all those weak 1st lines we had last year than Drury and Higgins are doing behind Gaborik....

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