HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Zherdev or Kotalik

View Poll Results: Either on Kotalik's 3 year 9 million deal - Who would you rather have?
Kotalik 130 75.58%
Zherdev 28 16.28%
Tie - I can't decide. 14 8.14%
Voters: 172. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-07-2009, 12:37 PM
  #101
RangerFan10
Registered User
 
RangerFan10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Long Island/Plattsbu
Country: United States
Posts: 5,327
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to RangerFan10
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingWantsCup View Post
Zherdev is a slacker who was looking for big bucks. Certainly not the kind of player I'd want on my team. Kotalik has been great for us at a reasonable price.
$3mil/per for a special teams specialist is not a reasonable price. Go check out how much guys like Marc-Andre Bergeron make, lol.

RangerFan10 is offline  
Old
11-07-2009, 12:43 PM
  #102
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,260
vCash: 500
If we were just going by skill level and age it would be easy for Zherdev. He has crazy skill--comparable to Gaborik's--the only problem is he's not willing to pay the price like Marian is. At least he hasn't shown so far. To me he became the second coming of Alexandre Daigle.

Kotalik as well has always been inconsistent but on the current Rangers he fits a need. IMO he is a better pwp pointman than Rozsival, Redden, Mara etc. It's funny we're not seeing all these shorthanded goals coming back at us this year. At least so far a forward has shown to be better than all those d-men and I'm not a fan of Kotalik's defense at ES or of his tendency to take hooking and tripping calls---and Zherdev might be more talented but with the group we have today he couldn't do that pointman job that Kotalik is doing for us. He doesn't have the shot and he's too hesitant in his decision making and to be honest I'm not sure Kotalik is going to have many slumps as long as MDZ continues to set him up for those shots like he has been doing because Kotalik isn't hesitant at all about unloading his bomb of a shot.

eco's bones is offline  
Old
11-07-2009, 12:52 PM
  #103
WheresBarnaby
Registered User
 
WheresBarnaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 2,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaqup View Post
They bring different things to the table.

Kotalik is a PP specialist, plays hard, and is willing to get a little dirty.

Zherdev is a playmaker, and likes to carry the puck.

That being said, Kotalik fills a greater need than Zherdev would/did. Our PP was desperate for his shot and he's a solid winger at ES.

Ideally we'd have both, though. We could still use another playmaker.
Agreed. Too bad Zherdev played hard ball and lost.

WheresBarnaby is offline  
Old
11-07-2009, 01:35 PM
  #104
ThirdEye
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Country: Ukraine
Posts: 11,666
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
If we were just going by skill level and age it would be easy for Zherdev. He has crazy skill--comparable to Gaborik's--the only problem is he's not willing to pay the price like Marian is. At least he hasn't shown so far. To me he became the second coming of Alexandre Daigle.

Kotalik as well has always been inconsistent but on the current Rangers he fits a need. IMO he is a better pwp pointman than Rozsival, Redden, Mara etc. It's funny we're not seeing all these shorthanded goals coming back at us this year. At least so far a forward has shown to be better than all those d-men and I'm not a fan of Kotalik's defense at ES or of his tendency to take hooking and tripping calls---and Zherdev might be more talented but with the group we have today he couldn't do that pointman job that Kotalik is doing for us. He doesn't have the shot and he's too hesitant in his decision making and to be honest I'm not sure Kotalik is going to have many slumps as long as MDZ continues to set him up for those shots like he has been doing because Kotalik isn't hesitant at all about unloading his bomb of a shot.
If Zherdev wasn't so useless on the PP during his time here I would have easily picked him. However, he brought nothing.

Both of them are flawed players, but like others have said, Kotalik at 3 million is more appealing to me than Zherdev at 4 million. I also don't think Zherdev and Tortorella would have worked despite Zherdev's claims that he didn't take the punishments personally. On the other hand, Kotalik played under Ruff before, who is even less forgiving than Tortorella. He's used to it

ThirdEye is offline  
Old
11-07-2009, 01:55 PM
  #105
polako
Registered User
 
polako's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 1,178
vCash: 500
Sometimes (most of the time), who the better player is doesn't decide who is better for the team. Kotalik is everything we've been missing on the PP for years. I'd take him 100x over Zherdev at this point, simply because he fills a key role, whereas Zherdev never did.

polako is offline  
Old
11-07-2009, 02:42 PM
  #106
pld459666
Registered User
 
pld459666's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Danbury, CT
Country: United States
Posts: 16,014
vCash: 873
.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
I agree his a better fit this year. But don't forget what the Rangers looked like when Gabby was out for a few games. Don't kid yourself, we are a flawed team.
Z doesn't fix that, not by a long shot

pld459666 is offline  
Old
11-07-2009, 02:49 PM
  #107
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,260
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
If Zherdev wasn't so useless on the PP during his time here I would have easily picked him. However, he brought nothing.

Both of them are flawed players, but like others have said, Kotalik at 3 million is more appealing to me than Zherdev at 4 million. I also don't think Zherdev and Tortorella would have worked despite Zherdev's claims that he didn't take the punishments personally. On the other hand, Kotalik played under Ruff before, who is even less forgiving than Tortorella. He's used to it
There were a lot of things wrong personnel wise with last year's pwp--no elite scoring threat down low. Smaller or perimeter type players trying to force plays back to hesitant and/or non mobile pointmen. Four key additions to the pwp this year--an elite goalscorer in Gaborik, a good playmaker in Prospal who has shown a lot of intensity, a truly capable 19 year old qb in Del Zotto and a guy with a big cannon of a shot in Kotalik. The movement with and without the puck is a lot better, players are also getting to the net a lot more for screens and deflections. It looks for real. IMO it's not just one thing that is different--it's multiple and Zherdev didn't do last year what any of those 4 guys are doing this year so who's to say just how well he would be doing with this group.

eco's bones is offline  
Old
11-07-2009, 02:53 PM
  #108
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,260
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by polako View Post
Sometimes (most of the time), who the better player is doesn't decide who is better for the team. Kotalik is everything we've been missing on the PP for years. I'd take him 100x over Zherdev at this point, simply because he fills a key role, whereas Zherdev never did.

That's very true. Skill without determination is Z's main problem IMO. He's a good point producer just coasting but last year's Rangers needed much more than that.

eco's bones is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 04:20 PM
  #109
HoosierDaddy
Registered User
 
HoosierDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,029
vCash: 500
So like, ...ehh, where's all the Kotalik love gone?

HoosierDaddy is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 04:36 PM
  #110
Emptyvoid
Registered User
 
Emptyvoid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,354
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
So like, ...ehh, where's all the Kotalik love gone?
It'll be back once our PP is back producing

But he's been as advertised, unfortunately.

Inconsistent and having a few burst games of amazing production.

Emptyvoid is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 04:51 PM
  #111
Beacon
Sent to HF Minors
 
Beacon's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 8,002
vCash: 500
People are only saying Kotalik because they are mad at Zzzz.

It's clear that Z>Kot. If we had this vote in June, there would be a 90% vote for Zzzz.

Beacon is online now  
Old
12-06-2009, 04:53 PM
  #112
BlueShirts702
Registered User
 
BlueShirts702's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: City of Sin
Country: United States
Posts: 1,253
vCash: 1168
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
So like, ...ehh, where's all the Kotalik love gone?
I know, cause Zherdev is just a world beater! He is that piece that would bring us to the promised land! Talk about

BlueShirts702 is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 04:53 PM
  #113
realitystrikes*
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 351
vCash: 500
Wow really? Kotalik is horrible outside of the time he spends on the powerplay. Granted a big shot from the point is what we have needed for a while, but 3 million a year for just that? Come on. I really dont get the way most of our fans act when it comes to former players. Zherdev was arguably our best player last year. He started off great, and then just like the rest of our team, faded as the season progressed. Then Tardarella comes along and starts handing him 10 minutes of ice time a game, and people start wondering why he's unhappy and underperforming. Zherdev is a far superior hockey player to Kotalik, and especially given that he only wanted 1 million more, I think it was a mistake letting him go in favor of a turnover specialist with no speed who's only use is for 5 minutes a game on the powerplay. Zherdev got a raw deal here, and some fans just seem to be bitter about how things ended. I am amused by the hypocrisy most people exhibit here. We all love gritty, hardworking leaders like Callahan and Dubisnky and their monster 40 point seasons, yet we hate the guy who led one of the worst offensive teams I've ever seen in scoring with 60 points.

realitystrikes* is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 05:05 PM
  #114
FLYLine24*
 
FLYLine24*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 29,102
vCash: 500
What have you done for me recently sydrome.

At the time of the poll Kotalik was playing awesome for us. Right now..gimmie my Zherdev back!

FLYLine24* is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 05:10 PM
  #115
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,799
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
What have you done for me recently sydrome.

At the time of the poll Kotalik was playing awesome for us. Right now..gimmie my Zherdev back!
zherdev got a very raw deal, im still not sure who i would rather have because Kotalik undoubtedly helps our PP....id still rather have Souray and Zherdev and get rid of Rozsival and Kotalik.

Inferno is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 05:17 PM
  #116
HoosierDaddy
Registered User
 
HoosierDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordStanleysMug View Post
Wow really? Kotalik is horrible outside of the time he spends on the powerplay. Granted a big shot from the point is what we have needed for a while, but 3 million a year for just that? Come on. I really dont get the way most of our fans act when it comes to former players. Zherdev was arguably our best player last year. He started off great, and then just like the rest of our team, faded as the season progressed. Then Tardarella comes along and starts handing him 10 minutes of ice time a game, and people start wondering why he's unhappy and underperforming. Zherdev is a far superior hockey player to Kotalik, and especially given that he only wanted 1 million more, I think it was a mistake letting him go in favor of a turnover specialist with no speed who's only use is for 5 minutes a game on the powerplay. Zherdev got a raw deal here, and some fans just seem to be bitter about how things ended. I am amused by the hypocrisy most people exhibit here. We all love gritty, hardworking leaders like Callahan and Dubisnky and their monster 40 point seasons, yet we hate the guy who led one of the worst offensive teams I've ever seen in scoring with 60 points.
Thanks for your post. Since the begining of the season I've pretty much read every almost every thread where we're looking for 2nd line scoring, and today was the first time I've seen so much as a mention of Zherdev (another post) as an option. Even now many haters won't acknowledge that Z could provide the secondary scoring we so desperately need. For crying out loud some people are pimping DeMitra? 30+ y/o Demitra of the $4mm contract?

Z gone, I'm cool with it. But every scoring replacement for Z (Captain Valium, Cally, Kotalik, Lisin, etc, etc) has fallen flat so far. $900k would have secured his services but now we're willing to give up players, B-level prospects and/or draft picks for more of the same. $900k is roughly Voros salary or not signing HuggyBear. And no one knows what damage Z could have done with Gabby. I got accused of being Z's wife by some imbecile who can't get past the hate long enough to at least see a modicum of merit in my posts - which again, you made very nicely. So yes. hypocrisy is the word.

HoosierDaddy is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 05:23 PM
  #117
HoosierDaddy
Registered User
 
HoosierDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Norway
Country: Norway
Posts: 1,029
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
zherdev got a very raw deal, im still not sure who i would rather have because Kotalik undoubtedly helps our PP....id still rather have Souray and Zherdev and get rid of Rozsival and Kotalik.
Souray is the right choice on so many levels. Give us the veteran presence, the shot and the snarl on the backline.

I wouldn't mind trying to pry Filatov from Columbus. What do you think it would take, Grachev? Would anyone do that deal? I would prefer to give up a D prospect and even our 1st rounder to get his rights. He'd fit in nicely and provide the missing top-end talent we are missing in the pipeline.

HoosierDaddy is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 05:27 PM
  #118
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,799
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoosierDaddy View Post
Souray is the right choice on so many levels. Give us the veteran presence, the shot and the snarl on the backline.

I wouldn't mind trying to pry Filatov from Columbus. What do you think it would take, Grachev? Would anyone do that deal? I would prefer to give up a D prospect and even our 1st rounder to get his rights. He'd fit in nicely and provide the missing top-end talent we are missing in the pipeline.
id trade a lot for Filatov, but he is smallish, which is scary. id rather hold on to grachev right now, but wouldnt mind moving one of our redundant defensive pieces to them.

Inferno is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 06:08 PM
  #119
NYR Sting
Heart and Soul
 
NYR Sting's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 9,506
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYLine24 View Post
What have you done for me recently sydrome.

At the time of the poll Kotalik was playing awesome for us. Right now..gimmie my Zherdev back!
At no point this season could you describe Kotalik's play as awesome. Even when he was scoring goals on the PP, his play was nothing even resembling awesome.

He's really just a flat out terrible player by NHL standards, and if he didn't have that shot, there is no way he'd ever have gotten to this league. Nothing else about his play is NHL-level.

NYR Sting is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 06:33 PM
  #120
GothamRanger
Registered User
 
GothamRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,017
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to GothamRanger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
At no point this season could you describe Kotalik's play as awesome. Even when he was scoring goals on the PP, his play was nothing even resembling awesome.

He's really just a flat out terrible player by NHL standards, and if he didn't have that shot, there is no way he'd ever have gotten to this league. Nothing else about his play is NHL-level.
Agreed. Even at his best he's not even one dimensional: if he's only good on the powerplay but not good offensively he's like 1/2 or 1/3 of a dimension of a player. He's been taking bad penalties and lazy on the forecheck.

And for the people who say wait for the PP to get better and then judge him ... isn't the whole point we signed him to help our powerplay, not simply feed off of the teams success? Shouldn't he be the cause of our PP, not the result?

Not worth the 3 million per year ... and the fact we have him for another two years is scares me a little.

GothamRanger is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 06:40 PM
  #121
D713B
Registered User
 
D713B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,623
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GothamRanger View Post
And for the people who say wait for the PP to get better and then judge him ... isn't the whole point we signed him to help our powerplay, not simply feed off of the teams success? Shouldn't he be the cause of our PP, not the result?
I'm not here to defend Kotalik because he is what he is, a power shot and not much else. A big shot from the point doesn't "make" your power play though, it generally just completes it. A PP QB makes your PP and right now teams are pressuring MDZ. Until he adjusts, our PP won't be as deadly as it was earlier this season. A cannon of a shot is only useful on the PP if you can set him up with the puck and a shooting lane.

D713B is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 06:46 PM
  #122
SouvenirCity
Registered User
 
SouvenirCity's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wading River, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 621
vCash: 500
Tell me again why Torts left Zherdev off the playoff roster?

SouvenirCity is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 06:49 PM
  #123
D713B
Registered User
 
D713B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,623
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouvenirCity View Post
Tell me again why Torts left Zherdev off the playoff roster?
Yeah, he forgot to pencil in the majority of the roster...

D713B is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 06:50 PM
  #124
FLYLine24*
 
FLYLine24*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 29,102
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sting36e View Post
At no point this season could you describe Kotalik's play as awesome. Even when he was scoring goals on the PP, his play was nothing even resembling awesome.

He's really just a flat out terrible player by NHL standards, and if he didn't have that shot, there is no way he'd ever have gotten to this league. Nothing else about his play is NHL-level.
Maybe not awesome, but he was producing.

FLYLine24* is offline  
Old
12-06-2009, 06:51 PM
  #125
GothamRanger
Registered User
 
GothamRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Chicago, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 1,017
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to GothamRanger
Quote:
Originally Posted by D713B View Post
I'm not here to defend Kotalik because he is what he is, a power shot and not much else. A big shot from the point doesn't "make" your power play though, it generally just completes it. A PP QB makes your PP and right now teams are pressuring MDZ. Until he adjusts our PP won't be as deadly as it was earlier this season. A cannon of a shot is only useful on the PP if you can set him up with the puck and a shooting lane.
Ok, then given that (narrow) scope of what his objectives are, do you think he is worth the 3 million?

GothamRanger is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:22 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.