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Old
11-12-2009, 07:12 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by DungeonK View Post
I'm still confused as to why we're trying to ride Pavelec so early in his development.
cuz - Kari's hurt. - Moose is over the hill. And Legace doesn't have it anymore either (he let in 4 last night for the Canes.)

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11-12-2009, 10:22 AM
  #102
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I'm a little surprised by how quickly people vacillate between thinking Pavs is great and how much he sucks! This is very normal of all young goalies, no matter how good or bad they are.
It's really kind of strange. The fanbase is split into a couple of camps:

1. Those that think Pavelec is the goalie of now and into the future, and Kari is done.

2. Those that think Pavalec is the goalie of now and are OK with that and want to see a goalie competition when Kari comes back.

3. Those that think Pavalec is a stopgap at best and are counting down the days until Kari comes back.

It's not terribly difficult to see which poster is in which camp. I'll be the first to admit that I'm in camp 1. My guess is ASF and blankspace are in 3.

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11-12-2009, 10:35 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by RoyalAir View Post
It's really kind of strange. The fanbase is split into a couple of camps:

1. Those that think Pavelec is the goalie of now and into the future, and Kari is done.

2. Those that think Pavalec is the goalie of now and are OK with that and want to see a goalie competition when Kari comes back.

3. Those that think Pavalec is a stopgap at best and are counting down the days until Kari comes back.

It's not terribly difficult to see which poster is in which camp. I'll be the first to admit that I'm in camp 1. My guess is ASF and blankspace are in 3.
For now I'm in camp #2. Kari could come back and the surgery cured something major. Maybe he signs next year for 1 mill and backs up Pavs...Right now I'm all about cheering on Pavs and Moose.

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Old
11-12-2009, 10:45 AM
  #104
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Pavelec could be great someday, his reflexes and athleticism are off the charts, but he is waaaay too inconsistent right now to trust night in and night out... if Kari comes back and is his old self he'll take his job back within a month.

A perfect world has them competing directly- Kari gets the much-needed career motivation he needs to stay focused, Pavs gets valuable experience in the big league.

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11-12-2009, 10:59 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by DungeonK View Post
Pavelec could be great someday, his reflexes and athleticism are off the charts, but he is waaaay too inconsistent right now to trust night in and night out... if Kari comes back and is his old self he'll take his job back within a month.

A perfect world has them competing directly- Kari gets the much-needed career motivation he needs to stay focused, Pavs gets valuable experience in the big league.
Maybe my memory is just completely shot, but I honestly have never thought of Kari Lehtonen being consistent, at all. Seems like he'd stop 15 good, quality chances, then have a brain fart and let in two really stoppable goals. Dunno, he just never came across as the kind of guy that you could trust in big-game situations, or really even from game to game.

What I'm saying is that Kari's "old self" I didn't think was anything spectacular.

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11-12-2009, 11:03 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by DungeonK View Post
The difference being I've never thought he was great...

Said it a million times- I'll take a goalie that lets in 2 or 3 every night over a goalie that lets in 1 or 0 half the time and 4 or 5 the other half. That consistency takes years to develop in all but the greatest of goalies, I'm still confused as to why we're trying to ride Pavelec so early in his development.
I do agree with you there! He needs to be splitting starts, at most.

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11-12-2009, 03:01 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalAir View Post
It's really kind of strange. The fanbase is split into a couple of camps:

1. Those that think Pavelec is the goalie of now and into the future, and Kari is done.

2. Those that think Pavalec is the goalie of now and are OK with that and want to see a goalie competition when Kari comes back.

3. Those that think Pavalec is a stopgap at best and are counting down the days until Kari comes back.

It's not terribly difficult to see which poster is in which camp. I'll be the first to admit that I'm in camp 1. My guess is ASF and blankspace are in 3.


#2 for me. I certainly think Pavelec will be a very good goalie for some time in this league, but that doesn't mean we should hand him the reigns. I'd like to see kari at least give the kid a run for his money. At the very least. solid play from both down the stretch leads to both of their values going up, increasing the return on the assumed eventual trade of one of them. And if all else fails, we still get another chance in a few years when kangas is ready to play in the bigs.

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Old
11-12-2009, 06:07 PM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalAir View Post
Maybe my memory is just completely shot, but I honestly have never thought of Kari Lehtonen being consistent, at all. Seems like he'd stop 15 good, quality chances, then have a brain fart and let in two really stoppable goals. Dunno, he just never came across as the kind of guy that you could trust in big-game situations, or really even from game to game.

What I'm saying is that Kari's "old self" I didn't think was anything spectacular.
Kari's consistency issues always seemed to me to be mental- when he got scored on it was due to slow reactions (or not reacting), or just not posting up and leaving that inch etc. When Pavelec gets scored on he's almost always waaaay out of position. I feel like if Kari could keep his head in the game like it's his last game in the league he might be able to fix his issues, whereas Pavelec has problems with the pure fundamentals of goaltending. To be honest I could really care less who it is that gets the job as long as they give us the best chance at winning, just got a feeling that Kari has the potential to be much better this season, really depends on whether or not Pavelec can calm down and stop flopping / going down early so damn much.

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Old
11-13-2009, 09:01 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalAir View Post
It's really kind of strange. The fanbase is split into a couple of camps:

1. Those that think Pavelec is the goalie of now and into the future, and Kari is done.

2. Those that think Pavalec is the goalie of now and are OK with that and want to see a goalie competition when Kari comes back.

3. Those that think Pavalec is a stopgap at best and are counting down the days until Kari comes back.

It's not terribly difficult to see which poster is in which camp. I'll be the first to admit that I'm in camp 1. My guess is ASF and blankspace are in 3.
I don't want to get into a math-off with you, but 3 is more than a couple. -g-

The team seems to be winning in front of Pavelec. While I don't want to confuse coincidence with causation, whatever works for the team is fine with me. I cheer for the front of the sweater, not the back.

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Old
11-13-2009, 10:38 PM
  #110
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Tonight's game shows how much of a bum Pavelec is. He obviously isn't fit to play hockey at any level, even beer league

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11-13-2009, 11:00 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Tonight's game shows how much of a bum Pavelec is. He obviously isn't fit to play hockey at any level, even beer league
Can't we all just get along!

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11-13-2009, 11:22 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by DoomMF View Post
Can't we all just get along!
Hell no we can't!

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Old
11-14-2009, 02:57 AM
  #113
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Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Tonight's game shows how much of a bum Pavelec is. He obviously isn't fit to play hockey at any level, even beer league
Consistency is one of the bigger complaints from a lot of the naysayers. It's the reason he was sent back to the AHL before the start of last season. We'll have to see how he looks in his next start.

I'm catching the game on Center Ice replay since I worked late tonight, but I heard he never looked the same after taking a puck to the knee during tonight's game. I'll make up my mind once I watch the rest of the game, but if true, then it's bad form by Anderson and the trainers to keep him in, in order to get a shutout.

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Old
11-16-2009, 02:58 PM
  #114
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Assuming Kari comes back in January (for arguments sake) what do you think the next move is?

Do they give Kari a few games and then immediately try shopping him?

As soon as he's healthy do they start shopping Hedberg who has played pretty well in relief this year?

It could be a tough decision looming with Kari's injury history because obviously you don't want to sell low on him if he comes back playing well.

Eh, it's a good problem to have I guess if Pavs keeps it up!

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11-16-2009, 03:03 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by DoomMF View Post
Assuming Kari comes back in January (for arguments sake) what do you think the next move is?

Do they give Kari a few games and then immediately try shopping him?

As soon as he's healthy do they start shopping Hedberg who has played pretty well in relief this year?

It could be a tough decision looming with Kari's injury history because obviously you don't want to sell low on him if he comes back playing well.

Eh, it's a good problem to have I guess if Pavs keeps it up!
I would be very uncomfortable going into a playoff run with Pavelec as your work horse and Kari as your backup. Sure, a healthy Kari is MUCH better than Hedberg, but how often do you get a healthy Kari?

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11-19-2009, 01:41 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by odgersfan83 View Post
I would be very uncomfortable going into a playoff run with Pavelec as your work horse and Kari as your backup. Sure, a healthy Kari is MUCH better than Hedberg, but how often do you get a healthy Kari?
Not often enough to rely on him for a playoff run.

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11-20-2009, 02:07 AM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoomMF View Post
Assuming Kari comes back in January (for arguments sake) what do you think the next move is?

Do they give Kari a few games and then immediately try shopping him?

As soon as he's healthy do they start shopping Hedberg who has played pretty well in relief this year?

It could be a tough decision looming with Kari's injury history because obviously you don't want to sell low on him if he comes back playing well.

Eh, it's a good problem to have I guess if Pavs keeps it up!
This. I think he'll be shipped to a Western Conference team that needs/wants a goalie. Detroit seems like a logical fit, but he has to get healthy first to have any value whatsoever.
DW's in a precarious situation. He has a talented, yet fragile, goaltender, and another talented goaltender playing pretty darn well in his first full NHL season. If this team's in playoff position come deadline time (and I think they will be), I sincerely doubt he'll keep all three guys. Someone has to go (especially if immediate needs can be addressed), and Pavelec is the least likely candidate, as his contract is quite a bit more certain.

Interesting to see how it's going to play out. Hunch tells me Kari's the odd man out, but I don't think anything will be decided until the deadline.

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12-04-2009, 08:53 AM
  #118
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Okay, What's the latest with Kari? It's been 5 weeks, since his latest surgery. Is he skating already? Joining team practices soon?

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12-04-2009, 09:53 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Hanson Brothers View Post
Okay, What's the latest with Kari? It's been 5 weeks, since his latest surgery. Is he skating already? Joining team practices soon?
An article from a few weeks ago (which you may have already seen) is HERE

Quotes below:
Quote:
Headline: “Career is not over”

Kari had his first back surgery in 20th July but the pain didn’t go away. After numerous examinations by different doctors he found a specialist in Rochester who operated his back again. Before the surgery Kari’s left feet was practically “unworkable”.
Quote:
“When I awoke from the surgery I was like a new man. All the pain was gone and now my spirit is high.” He can start a careful practicing after two weeks and could even be able to play after a month. He’s very keen to get play again: “Ice hockey has been a big part of my life so living whit out hockey has been really difficult.”
Quote:
He hasn’t lived up to all the expectations, injuries have limited his playing and his physics has been criticized. Many have even thought that his career is over. “I know that people doubts and talks *****, but that alone gives me motivation to show that I’m still able to stop pucks. All this pushes me forward.”
Quote:
About Ondrej Pavelec: “It’s going to be interesting, when I get back on ice and competitions for playing time begins. Pavelec has done excellent job.”
Quote:
Lehtonen has never been an exercise-addict and some people claims that his injuries are result from that. “Guru-guy (specialist who operated the back) said that the back problem was congenital. But now it should be fixed.” He is very hopeful because now he doesn’t feel any pain for the first time in months.
I don't think he has been on the ice yet but has been at the practice facility. Currently, still projected to be an early 2010 time-frame for games.

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12-05-2009, 09:16 PM
  #120
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Very encouraging article. Hopefully Lehtonen can play games in early January and having to compete versus a very good Pavelec will help Lehtonen truly emerge as a consistently good goalie.

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12-05-2009, 09:25 PM
  #121
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Very encouraging article. Hopefully Lehtonen can play games in early January and having to compete versus a very good Pavelec will help Lehtonen truly emerge as a consistently good goalie.
I typically agree with the principle that a player should not lose their job due to injury but how can you sit Pavelec or Hedberg right now?

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12-05-2009, 09:36 PM
  #122
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see how he does in 4 or 5 Chicago starts. If he's blazing, you have to give him some starts. If he sucks, just let him ride pine until some team gets desperate.

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12-06-2009, 10:39 AM
  #123
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Think Lehtonen could be had at the deadline?

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Old
12-06-2009, 10:47 AM
  #124
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for sure dawg

Lehtonen+White for ???

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12-06-2009, 10:59 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by The Sneak View Post
I typically agree with the principle that a player should not lose their job due to injury but how can you sit Pavelec or Hedberg right now?
The key words are "right now". It all, of course, is a moot point until Kari is actually back and has played some games in Chicago, as Chucky17 said.
Also, at some point I think that either Moose or Pavelec is due for slump.
Hopefully, it will be timed with Kari's successful pain-free return.

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