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Giguere to Toronto for Toskala

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Old
11-10-2009, 08:03 PM
  #126
Hero
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One big step side ways.

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Old
11-12-2009, 02:28 PM
  #127
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This is riduculous

Im new to this board but find it fascinating. I am long time sufferring Leaf fan. I know some would call me stupid but the truth is I really don't have a second favorite team. The problem with the Leafs is that they dont make a lot of sense. The clear blueprint to a Stanley Cup contender has traditionally been by drafting wisely, signing the right FA at the right time, strong farm system, development of young players and smart trades. This trade is plain dumb. Why would Burke do this? Is Giguere better than Toskala? He certainly gets paid like he is. Vesa's contract expires at the end of this year and JSG has two years to go at a much higher salary. To be a tutor/mentor? WTF? Makes no sense. I don't think Burke is that dumb. Toskala is a good goalie whose confidence has been shattered by a less than tactful coach and a media of bloodhounds. When he arrived in TO he was simplhy outstanding. I cant believe the short term memories of Leaf fans. He was awesome as he was playing with the Sharks. Last year he was terrible (granted) but also played injured alot of the season. This year he has hardly been given the chance AND the Leafs stink. They didnt do any better with Monster in net (at the time Toskala was playing) or with Joey MacDonald. 3 goalies = same results. The monster has been playing well of late but so has the rest of the team. No one wants to admit how bad this team is so they use Toskala as the scapegoat. Poor. Im not saying he has played well because he hasnt but why single him out? How many Leaf forwards have 0 or 1 goal after 15 games? Worst PK in league. Only one star player (Kaberle) until Kessel started playing. Defense is atrocious despite all the new faces. Beauchemin is awful, awful, awful. As was Komisarek until the last 5 games or so. Schenn has been a nightmare (perhaps over-rated?) Their best D (IMO) from last season, Van Ryn, is out for the season. Basically a horrible squad from goaltending out, from bench strength (depth) to special teams (PP is ok for now mainly because Kaberle quarterbacks it) but last season was also terrible. Coaching is questionable and the vision of the GM also is questionable. Yeah I can see why we need JSG instead of Toskala. Another boneheaded rumor that cannot possibly have any truth. I hope not anyway!!!

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Old
11-12-2009, 02:41 PM
  #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Im new to this board but find it fascinating. I am long time sufferring Leaf fan. I know some would call me stupid but the truth is I really don't have a second favorite team. The problem with the Leafs is that they dont make a lot of sense. The clear blueprint to a Stanley Cup contender has traditionally been by drafting wisely, signing the right FA at the right time, strong farm system, development of young players and smart trades. This trade is plain dumb. Why would Burke do this? Is Giguere better than Toskala? He certainly gets paid like he is. Vesa's contract expires at the end of this year and JSG has two years to go at a much higher salary. To be a tutor/mentor? WTF? Makes no sense. I don't think Burke is that dumb. Toskala is a good goalie whose confidence has been shattered by a less than tactful coach and a media of bloodhounds. When he arrived in TO he was simplhy outstanding. I cant believe the short term memories of Leaf fans. He was awesome as he was playing with the Sharks. Last year he was terrible (granted) but also played injured alot of the season. This year he has hardly been given the chance AND the Leafs stink. They didnt do any better with Monster in net (at the time Toskala was playing) or with Joey MacDonald. 3 goalies = same results. The monster has been playing well of late but so has the rest of the team. No one wants to admit how bad this team is so they use Toskala as the scapegoat. Poor. Im not saying he has played well because he hasnt but why single him out? How many Leaf forwards have 0 or 1 goal after 15 games? Worst PK in league. Only one star player (Kaberle) until Kessel started playing. Defense is atrocious despite all the new faces. Beauchemin is awful, awful, awful. As was Komisarek until the last 5 games or so. Schenn has been a nightmare (perhaps over-rated?) Their best D (IMO) from last season, Van Ryn, is out for the season. Basically a horrible squad from goaltending out, from bench strength (depth) to special teams (PP is ok for now mainly because Kaberle quarterbacks it) but last season was also terrible. Coaching is questionable and the vision of the GM also is questionable. Yeah I can see why we need JSG instead of Toskala. Another boneheaded rumor that cannot possibly have any truth. I hope not anyway!!!
Great first post as a Leaf fan !!!

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Old
11-12-2009, 02:42 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Northern Dancer View Post
Great first post as a Leaf fan !!!
Does anyone ever read these straight text, clump of words? It's dizzying.

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Old
11-12-2009, 02:47 PM
  #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
This trade is plain dumb.
agreed.

Quote:
Why would Burke do this?
he won't.

Quote:
Is Giguere better than Toskala?
yes.

Quote:
He certainly gets paid like he is. Vesa's contract expires at the end of this year and JSG has two years to go at a much higher salary. To be a tutor/mentor? WTF? Makes no sense. I don't think Burke is that dumb.
Agreed - makes no sense, that's ridiculous to even think of paying that for a "mentor", and Burke is not that dumb.


Quote:
Toskala is a good goalie whose confidence has been shattered by a less than tactful coach and a media of bloodhounds. When he arrived in TO he was simplhy outstanding. I cant believe the short term memories of Leaf fans. He was awesome as he was playing with the Sharks. Last year he was terrible (granted) but also played injured alot of the season. This year he has hardly been given the chance AND the Leafs stink.
No, Toskala stinks.

At his best, he was a good backup goalie. He's never been an even average starter in this league. Not with San Jose, not with the Leafs.


Quote:
They didnt do any better with Monster in net (at the time Toskala was playing) or with Joey MacDonald. 3 goalies = same results. The monster has been playing well of late but so has the rest of the team. No one wants to admit how bad this team is so they use Toskala as the scapegoat. Poor. Im not saying he has played well because he hasnt but why single him out?
We single him out because he had the worst save percentage of any starting goalie in the league last year, and has a laughable .836sv% this year.

The Leafs have been much, much better with Gusto in net providing solid-but-not-awesome goaltending - and that's no surprise.

Gusto's Starts: 3-2-3 (92pt pace), 2.62gaa, 80.7pk%
Toskala's Starts: 0-2-2 (41pt pace), 5.13gaa, 60.0pk%

In other words, with Gusto in net giving us solid goaltending, we've played playoff-bubble quality hockey, with a defensive record in both goals given up and in PK% near top-10 in the league/

In Toskala's starts, we've been laughably bad - not even saying that we rank 30th in all defensive categories with Toskala in net describes how bad we really are with him in net.

Toskala is a bad goalie.


Quote:
How many Leaf forwards have 0 or 1 goal after 15 games?
Only the 3 4th liners - Wallin, Primeau, and Orr.

Quote:
Worst PK in league.
Only because of Toskala. With Gusto in net, the PK is just fine.

Quote:
Only one star player (Kaberle) until Kessel started playing.
Two star players with maybe a third in Gusto.

Quote:
Defense is atrocious despite all the new faces. Beauchemin is awful, awful, awful. As was Komisarek until the last 5 games or so. Schenn has been a nightmare (perhaps over-rated?) Their best D (IMO) from last season, Van Ryn, is out for the season.
Defense has been fine in Gusto's starts - well above average in both Goals Against and in Penalty Killing.

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Old
11-12-2009, 03:02 PM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
Im new to this board but find it fascinating. I am long time sufferring Leaf fan. I know some would call me stupid but the truth is I really don't have a second favorite team. The problem with the Leafs is that they dont make a lot of sense. The clear blueprint to a Stanley Cup contender has traditionally been by drafting wisely, signing the right FA at the right time, strong farm system, development of young players and smart trades. This trade is plain dumb. Why would Burke do this? Is Giguere better than Toskala? He certainly gets paid like he is. Vesa's contract expires at the end of this year and JSG has two years to go at a much higher salary. To be a tutor/mentor? WTF? Makes no sense. I don't think Burke is that dumb. Toskala is a good goalie whose confidence has been shattered by a less than tactful coach and a media of bloodhounds. When he arrived in TO he was simplhy outstanding. I cant believe the short term memories of Leaf fans. He was awesome as he was playing with the Sharks. Last year he was terrible (granted) but also played injured alot of the season. This year he has hardly been given the chance AND the Leafs stink. They didnt do any better with Monster in net (at the time Toskala was playing) or with Joey MacDonald. 3 goalies = same results. The monster has been playing well of late but so has the rest of the team. No one wants to admit how bad this team is so they use Toskala as the scapegoat. Poor. Im not saying he has played well because he hasnt but why single him out? How many Leaf forwards have 0 or 1 goal after 15 games? Worst PK in league. Only one star player (Kaberle) until Kessel started playing. Defense is atrocious despite all the new faces. Beauchemin is awful, awful, awful. As was Komisarek until the last 5 games or so. Schenn has been a nightmare (perhaps over-rated?) Their best D (IMO) from last season, Van Ryn, is out for the season. Basically a horrible squad from goaltending out, from bench strength (depth) to special teams (PP is ok for now mainly because Kaberle quarterbacks it) but last season was also terrible. Coaching is questionable and the vision of the GM also is questionable. Yeah I can see why we need JSG instead of Toskala. Another boneheaded rumor that cannot possibly have any truth. I hope not anyway!!!
Lets me start with saying welcome to HFBoards.

And I do realize how bad this team is. I have sad so for the whole time, even if with Gus in net and Kessel upfront it sure looks a little bit more promising then what it did at the start of the season.

We went in to this season with no #1 in net, #1 centre, no captain, no #1 defender (Kaberle have showed he is back on track) and we talked about making the post season...

We are like a poorly built building with a weak foundation, leaky roof and skewed doors. Instead of building a brand new house (through the draft) while tearing down the old house Burke have begun to repair what he can. Now if Burke is as good as we all hope he is he will turn this ramshackle into a luxury apartment in no time (2-4 years) and hopefully the land lord wont raise the rent when it is all done.

But with Gus in net it allows Burke to start building from the net out. It is always easier to have the goalie in place so you know what kind of D you need to surround him with. And once the D is in place you know what kind of forwards you need to best suit the D corps you have. This is of course if Gus is the real deal (something I am convinced he is) and then there is no need for Giguere. And that was the topic on this thread before I tried to write as much as you do.

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Old
11-12-2009, 03:06 PM
  #132
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The funny thing is that I truly and genuinelu hope Toskala improves for a number of different reasons. But the main reason is in order to boost his trade value. I can't remember cheering for a player to do well only so they can trade him. The other reason is that, if he can't turn it around, his NHL career is over. No one will take a chance on him with so many other backups out there. Personally, I don't think he will turn it around and I think the best thing for all involved would be drop him on waivers, bring up Macdonald and send Toskala to the Marlies. Maybe he can find his game enough to earn a contract with someone. The Leafs could then use the cap space to try and augmen the offence which is so weak. A trade would be great right now. At least I would feel like Burke sees what we see and is trying to do something about it.

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11-12-2009, 03:12 PM
  #133
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Toskala's contract is off the books at the end of the year so nobody will be paying big for him.

That, and there are other marketable goalies out there that will be pursued before Tosk - including Giguere. Therefore, those hoping to see Tosk traded ... I guess keep on hoping, because unless you get a Carolina-like situation (goalie injuries, struggling desperate team), you aren't going to get any suiters for Vesa.

THe best option is to hope he gets hot enough to backup Gustavsson into the playoffs, so at least he can earn himself another NHL role next season.

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11-12-2009, 03:13 PM
  #134
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Also - if ANDREW RAYCROFT, could find anoter job in the NHL after his Leaf nightmare, so can Vesa. So for those saying that if he doesn't do well here this season, he is done - that's ********.

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11-12-2009, 03:15 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Tak7 View Post
Also - if ANDREW RAYCROFT, could find anoter job in the NHL after his Leaf nightmare, so can Vesa. So for those saying that if he doesn't do well here this season, he is done - that's ********.
Shouldn't you have posted this under your other username, hockeyfanz ?

I think you are busted.

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Old
11-13-2009, 12:13 AM
  #136
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this would be a horrible trade for the leafs, I could understand the trade if the monster was doing poorly, but he isnt, so why make this trade. waste of money by the leafs if it goes down... we can use that money on signing a top player next year of something...

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Old
11-13-2009, 03:35 AM
  #137
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the simple truth is that this trade simply wont work, we cant afford giggy, and the organisation is in a better condition with toskalas contract off the books, then we can lock gusto up long term which im guessing is the plan

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11-13-2009, 04:02 AM
  #138
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Seeing as Leafs are already plundering Farjestad on their talent (sure nether Wallin or Frogren are special in the NHL but in the SEL they where) why not sign Robin Rahm?
He is not really a late bloomer, just because a goalie is 23 when they start making some noise does make them late bloomers IMO. He is trained by the same coach as Gus was when he was with Farjestad and he is some what similar talent wise. Could at least sign him and leave him in Europe for one or two seasons and see how he develops. Worth a shot?

Not that it solve any goalie situation for us now or in the near future.

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11-13-2009, 04:19 AM
  #139
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Another goalie who is younger and bigger then Robin Rahm and who also could have more potential is Eddie Lack.

He is definitely worth a gamble. He is born early -88 so that does mean he can be signed for free does it not?

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11-13-2009, 09:34 AM
  #140
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No, Toskala stinks.

At his best, he was a good backup goalie. He's never been an even average starter in this league. Not with San Jose, not with the Leafs.

OK Now I'm confused..... yoor sayin zeke that toskala wasnt good at SJ ? (He nearly defeated nabo at his last season) First season here he was the only reason why we even had a lil change to qualify to playoffs. Yeah now your thinkin that cuz I m from Fin that im a huge supporter of finnish G's nah but yoo cannot deny tha facts !!

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11-13-2009, 09:45 AM
  #141
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I'd rather have a deadbeat whose contract is shorter

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Old
11-13-2009, 11:13 AM
  #142
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Finger/Blake(preferably Blake)+Toskala for Giguere+

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Old
11-13-2009, 01:13 PM
  #143
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OK Now I'm confused..... yoor sayin zeke that toskala wasnt good at SJ ? (He nearly defeated nabo at his last season) First season here he was the only reason why we even had a lil change to qualify to playoffs. Yeah now your thinkin that cuz I m from Fin that im a huge supporter of finnish G's nah but yoo cannot deny tha facts !!
Not denying any facts.

His last two years with the Sharks he posted a .905sv%. Below average. His first year with the Leafs, before getting injured his second year, he gave us a .904sv%. again, below average.

In his 2nd last year with SJ, Nabokov came out and had the worst year of his career, posting an .885sv%, which forced the Sharks to turn to Toskala as the starter for a bit.

Nabokov lost the job to Vesa based on one year of absolutely awful play.

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11-14-2009, 04:53 AM
  #144
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But zeke my dear ! so did ya'll yoo dissed 'n hitted toskala down for one bad season. Nabo survived 'n gotta new change. Vesa wont cuz of these bloodhound media and fans

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