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Quote From Daly sums up negotiations to date

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Old
12-10-2004, 03:33 PM
  #51
thinkwild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanlady
I disagree with you I think that owner arbitration is far more valuable in hold out situations.

Agents are not stupid, there going to use the Score system to derive player contract information and use comparables which would put Jerome Iginala's salary between 5 -5.5 million. Agents know that no matter what they do unless there is a flurry of stupidity from one team, the owners arbitration clause is going to bring some sanity back.
I cant believe how many are not seeing this. This line that there is no mechanism to prevent the same things from happening again, is just not looking properly.

Arbitration is now available to all teams to keep salaries in line. It also allows Calgary to take Iginla to arbitration to not only guarantee he gets about the 5-7mil the new marketpalce is set at, but also guarantees that he will be signed for the start of the season. He cant hold out, nor can he get an unfair reward. This is a huge change. The arbitration system is not only not inflationary, it can be used to maintain RFA salaries, the ones arbitration applies to, down. Since ther ewill be no Sakic offer sheets, explain how this can possibly be in a an inflationary spiral.

It doesnt control UFA salaries, agreed, but it no longer needs to. Since it is quite evident that no longer is the need to buy UFAs a determinant of success, the luxury tax doesnt need to prevent big UFA spending, but rather just use it to raise enough taxes to support the needy. Its not the owners that want a higher tax number. They want to share less. But you have to look at the tax number that raises the desired amount of money, not the one that attempts to prevent spending.

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12-10-2004, 03:51 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
Ya, why would fans want to punish the teams responsible for the salary inflation in the first place?

If you think anyone but Leaf/Wings fans are going to cry for them, you are sorely mistaken.

BTW,

There would be no firesale to get under the cap. Those teams just wouldn't be allowed to add any salary until they did get under the cap. No UFA's for the worst offenders. I'm getting all misty here just thinking about their hardship.
You do realize that 18 of the 30 teams in the league would be over a $31 million cap?

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12-10-2004, 04:34 PM
  #53
thinkwild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
I'm getting all misty here just thinking about their hardship.
Heh. Getting all wet thinking about the Leafs dismantling. Revealing.

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Old
12-10-2004, 04:38 PM
  #54
thinkwild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceber
The owners can use that hammer one time in a single player's career, and only twice overall in three years. They won't risk it if the difference between the player's demand and what they want to pay isn't that big. I think the owner-initiated arbitration is only useful in rare situations where a guy is getting overpaid by a considerable amount.

The real valuable change to arbitration is to only allow new or rolled-back contracts to be used for comparables, but since Jarome doesn't have to file for arbitration, his agent can do precisely what was described. 7 mill is probably close enough to what he's worth that the team won't spend one of their arbitrations on him. He's a star, fans love him, you want him on your team. The arbitration is handy for that guy who's getting 3 or 4 million and should really only be getting 1.5 or so. Losing that guy isn't a terrible deal. Losing Iginla puts the hurt on that organization in too many ways for it to be worth the risk of arbitration. IMO.
Can you name an RFA that the GM would like to take to arbitration to lower his salary from $3 or 4 to $1.4? I would think the big value of this, is that star players with a good year who want to hold out, can be taken by the owners to arbitration to ensure they get fair value, and guarantee they are in camp.

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12-10-2004, 04:49 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild
Can you name an RFA that the GM would like to take to arbitration to lower his salary from $3 or 4 to $1.4? I would think the big value of this, is that star players with a good year who want to hold out, can be taken by the owners to arbitration to ensure they get fair value, and guarantee they are in camp.
not that i dont agree, but Brian Savage would be a prime example.

dr

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12-10-2004, 05:37 PM
  #56
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It's going to be almost impossible to lower anybody's salary. One, you only get two chances every three years, so you're going to be careful not to waste your chances. Two, you've got to find a guy who's basically got no comparables around the league at his salary. If he's in the middle somewhere, you're just as likely to end up raising his salary than lowering it. If you do manage to lower it, chances are it's going to be some insignificant amount, a few hundred grand etc.

No, the only real value here is eliminating a potential longterm holdout, and getting a guy signed and playing.

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12-10-2004, 05:42 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PecaFan
It's going to be almost impossible to lower anybody's salary. One, you only get two chances every three years, so you're going to be careful not to waste your chances. Two, you've got to find a guy who's basically got no comparables around the league at his salary. If he's in the middle somewhere, you're just as likely to end up raising his salary than lowering it. If you do manage to lower it, chances are it's going to be some insignificant amount, a few hundred grand etc.

No, the only real value here is eliminating a potential longterm holdout, and getting a guy signed and playing.
well you could lower anyone's salary by not signing him period.

dr

edit: i understand no one would want to do that to Iginla, but id wager there are far more players it would make sense to cut than to resign than there are guys like iginla.


Last edited by OlliMackBjugStud: 12-10-2004 at 05:48 PM.
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Old
12-10-2004, 05:56 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedReality
well you could lower anyone's salary by not signing him period.

dr

edit: i understand no one would want to do that to Iginla, but id wager there are far more players it would make sense to cut than to resign than there are guys like iginla.
On the Wings, for instance:
Ray Whitney.
Darren McCarty
Curtis Joseph ...

Three guys the Wings might try,

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12-10-2004, 06:31 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsguyone
On the Wings, for instance:
Ray Whitney.
Darren McCarty
Curtis Joseph ...

Three guys the Wings might try,
They'd probably get rid of Whitney. They probably want to get rid of Joseph, but he's only got a year left on his deal and there's really no one available that'd be worth a buyout. I don't think they think Legace is the guy. After the rollback, I think they can live with McCarty's deal. Ilitch is an extremely loyal person, and McCarty has returned that loyalty.

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