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Old
11-15-2009, 09:33 AM
  #126
TheProspector
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Originally Posted by Platapie View Post
The team isn't significantly worse than prior seasons talent wise-- but it's looking more and more like they played way above their head last year. None of this would be an issue if we had our first round pick, but we don't. At this point, ALL we can hope for is that we haven't tossed away the #1 overall pick. That is a ****ing depressing reality.
The talent quality is definitely worse. The team's two best players, Pavel Kubina & Nik Antropov, both went to Atlanta. Surprise, last year's basement team is now looking very sharp.

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Originally Posted by Poggemon Destiny View Post
So you admit there is no talent yet you want Kessel, who, forget about a PPG pace, but the guy was almost at a GPG pace to pass? No thanks. That is one guy who I don't mind hogging the puck.
Kessel is a good passer. He's also the best shooter, knows it, and I'm damn glad he shoots. He can score from anywhere.

As for the gold chains .. they probably are crosses. Iginla wears one. Ovechkin wears one. Malkin. You'd think that'd make Don Cherry happy.

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11-15-2009, 09:59 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by TheProspector View Post
Kessel is a good passer. He's also the best shooter, knows it, and I'm damn glad he shoots. He can score from anywhere.
Agreed 100 percent. I'd rather Kessel shooting than 90 percent of the other forwards who apparently can't hit the net, or even score a garbage goal here or there.

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11-15-2009, 10:05 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by JustinV View Post
Realistically, how much longer can the status quo be carried out for the Leafs? Even if they win their next two games, they'll be 5-10-5. That's a 25% win rate through the first 20 games, which is an entire quarter of the season.
You forget that it's a points league so it's a 50% points rate. OTL isn't really a loss..

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11-15-2009, 10:19 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Curtis Belfour View Post
I'm sorry but Cherry is right. Wallin has no place on this team and looks like an idiot wearing that gold chain. I've played hockey 20 years and never seen anyone who didn't take their jewelry off before going on the ice. You're playing hockey not going to a night club.
I guess you hate Ovechkin too because he wears a gold chain to the nightclub that is the NHL.

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11-15-2009, 10:50 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by FiNsKa View Post
Then Vesa showed up? What ****ing game were you watching is what I'd like to know.



Doesn't matter who's in net at this point, the team sucks period. Our D sucks, and we can't score. This team is a joke, blow it up before we get embarrased and become the laughing stock of the entire league.
unfortunately it's too late for that. We don't have any picks for 2 years. We've traded away our ability to build a team from within. I really hope Burke loses his job at seasons end.

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Old
11-15-2009, 10:52 AM
  #131
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How quickly the "Could the Leafs win their division?" thread vanished.

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Old
11-15-2009, 11:31 AM
  #132
thas
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Originally Posted by Raging Bull View Post
How quickly the "Could the Leafs win their division?" thread vanished.
That thread was stupid to begin with. This team will not make the playoffs(which is a given by now). We just have to wait until the deadline because Burke said on leafs lunch about two or three weeks ago that if this team is in a bad situation, he will decide to sell. I say trade ALL the players that are going to be UFAs and start over. We cant keep looking at the draft picks we gave Boston and say that we need to make the playoffs because of that. We should attempt to get as many draft picks, prospects and young players as possible at the deadline. We have somewhat of a core for the future with the likes of Kessel, Kadri, Bozak Schenn, etc.

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11-15-2009, 11:40 AM
  #133
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This is a weird situation we're in at the moment, we have more young talent and in the system than we have for some time. We have little coming up in the near future due to the Kessel trade. We've outplayed our opponents for the vast majority of the season, but haven't gotten results. Last night Gusto laid an egg and that was too big of a whole to climb out of. Seems like we're always a step away from winning games. Where one area fails us, but not other teams. At this point, I'd suggest Burke sitting out some guys like Grabovski, Stempniak, Blake and bringing up the NCAA line (maybe Tlusty). The team just needs to click all at once. One area, whether it's the d-coverage, goaltending or scoring seems to be severely lacking each game. Need to find a way to resolve it.

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Old
11-15-2009, 12:38 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by TheProspector View Post
The talent quality is definitely worse. The team's two best players, Pavel Kubina & Nik Antropov, both went to Atlanta. Surprise, last year's basement team is now looking very sharp.
Antropov isn't qualified to carry Kessels' jockstrap though agreed he was our most talented forward last year (not saying much but it's true). Kubina is decent, but Komi/Beauch are an ample replacement. There is no way that the loss of Kubina/Antropov explains this nonsense.

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Old
11-15-2009, 12:46 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by EazyB97 View Post
This is a weird situation we're in at the moment, we have more young talent and in the system than we have for some time. We have little coming up in the near future due to the Kessel trade. We've outplayed our opponents for the vast majority of the season, but haven't gotten results. Last night Gusto laid an egg and that was too big of a whole to climb out of. Seems like we're always a step away from winning games...
My observation exactly. Some would say we're the worst team in the league, although I doubt many teams we've played recently agree. They may have earned the points but not an easy feat.

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:18 PM
  #136
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How many cute backpasses does it take before a Leaf player realizes he's not in a Penguins jersey? Still waiting for that to be answered. I've yet to see a backpass work and each one has been a turnover, creating a nice scoring chance for the other team.

Backpasses VS. Turnovers
Phil Kessel's shot accuracy/scoring ability VS. Turnovers due to him holding the puck too long
Leafs' sluggish, non-moving-of-the-feet defense VS. The rest of the league's forwards.

Jokes aside, Toskala looked shaky to begin with, but who can blame him when he's told to take the reigns within the first 10 minutes of game (or 9:54 to be exact). He slowly got his gear together, moved his hand through his hair a couple of times and than went out on the ice, with all of his teammates just staring at him, waiting for him to get out there. It was actually really awkward seeing all this transpire. Gustavsson was just waiting beside the door on the ice along with another leaf player on the other side who was also waiting to get off and they were just staring at him. Sure they pat Toskala's pads when he went out there, but I don't know, none of it seemed right. It sure didn't look like a confident, playoff team. In fact, everyone looked sorry to Toskala. It does give you a glimmer of what's going on in the dressing room. Here's my wild estimates:

-Toskala, having heard/seen dressing room interviews of his fellow players saying things like, "It's great to feel like you have a goalie that will make key saves..." or "We feel good in front of Gustavsson", has really felt betrayed, and that, at least for me was shown during that little exchange explained above. None of this is good for anyone.

-Good leaders lead by example (Major Winters->Beyond Band of Brothers). I have an inkling, the players don't really take anything Wilson says to heart and have subconsciously and collectively begun to show their agitation or indifference to his style of play (it's far from a revolt, mind you, but it's hard not to imagine this being true with everyone's apparent lack of motivation on the ice). Who really knows if this is due to Wilson's methods, or the constant threat of elimination from the league or the Leaf uniform from both Wilson and Burke. I sure as hell would not feel comfortable or motivated by someone telling me (indirectly aka to the media) that they'd fire my ass if I didn't meet their expectations (Isn't this an obvious fact of any job?). What's worse is the indirectness of it. These are men, with wives or girlfriends, with livelihoods, and family. Don't speak to the 'evil' media about current Leaf players losing their jobs, especially when in the same sentence, they would say they despise the way media talks about the team (Irony). This is one area I feel Burke and Wilson have overstepped their bounds and have thus, created a rather stressful and condescending environment of business as usual when there shouldn't be any.

-I don't think there's one person on this team that strives to make everyone have fun or laugh or be motivated. There doesn't seem to be a 'dressing room' guy in this cast of deflated, sad and despondent looking players who lack any team-building personality. No one looks like a leader or a guy who sparks the proverbial flame of this team. There isn't one guy to 'build a team around' like the Iginla's, Crosby's, Ovechkin's of other teams. Having a guy who you can turn to on and off the ice, who strives to make everyone around him better at what they do, is integral to a team. A coach can't sprout skates and get on the ice during a game. Guidance seems to be lacking and not to mention, fun and camaraderie. However, the same 'dressing room' guy can't just appear out of no where either. That's the sad truth.

Anyway, these are just guesses. In terms of observations of gameplay, Toskala played well and was very active and quick, but the sluggish D let him down and massive turnovers created far too many chances. Gustavsson looked a little lost, but like every other game, not everything was his fault. Beauchemin played probably his best game despite his +/-, finally unloading those massive onetimer slapshots like in the preseason which created several great chances, one was a goal and another was the foundation of the second goal. Gunnarsson looked solid. Everyone watch for turnovers created by cutesy backpasses by the Leafs in future games. Man, they have got to stop doing those. Overall, however, one strong period isn't going to win you a game (poor defense and turnovers in first and third) and nor is constantly having to exert so much energy into equalizing when they're trailing in the first period (goaltending).

I no longer look at this team as a playoff contender. I'm now looking at it as a 'what do we really have for the future?'. I suggest everyone else do the same or else your expectations will be shattered along with your fan instincts.

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:25 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
No. What I'm suggesting is to remove as much of the useless deadwood from the roster as possible and replace it with some actual talent, that's all. If you can only take out say, three or four players, at any given time, then I say "Do it!" Even that kind of talent infusion can be fairly easily done. The Leafs have nothing left to lose, so why not?
He's added a potential starting goalie, and 2 top 5 defenceman for free. He's also added some prospects at no cost, and added a front line forward this team desperately needed. He's also added a legit tough guy in Or at a decent price.

Take a look at the Marlies, when was the last time we had that much legitamate talent in the AHL. No more Bates, Devo etc. Young players with NHL potential. Who did that? No JFJ, or Fletch or Quinn. Burke went balls out to get the young talent for free. OK, so they weren't 18 year old 1st round picks, but it's still potential, thaty hasn't been there in ages.

Maybe take a look at the team from last season, and see how many changes have been made, and then consider there will be 6-7 more changes before next year, and we are talking about 15 changes in 2 years.

We keep stating we will be patient through this, but we can't give Burke more than 12 months to remake this roster.

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11-15-2009, 01:30 PM
  #138
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gunnarsson is the new stralman...

except steady defensively.

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Old
11-15-2009, 05:21 PM
  #139
EucaLEAFtys
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Originally Posted by dynrehab View Post
He's added a potential starting goalie, and 2 top 5 defenceman for free. He's also added some prospects at no cost, and added a front line forward this team desperately needed. He's also added a legit tough guy in Or at a decent price.

Take a look at the Marlies, when was the last time we had that much legitamate talent in the AHL. No more Bates, Devo etc. Young players with NHL potential. Who did that? No JFJ, or Fletch or Quinn. Burke went balls out to get the young talent for free. OK, so they weren't 18 year old 1st round picks, but it's still potential, thaty hasn't been there in ages.

Maybe take a look at the team from last season, and see how many changes have been made, and then consider there will be 6-7 more changes before next year, and we are talking about 15 changes in 2 years.

We keep stating we will be patient through this, but we can't give Burke more than 12 months to remake this roster.
Hey, I freely acknowledge the fact that Burke has made some good decisions when he acquired guys like Gustavsson, Bozak, and Hanson. Even Orr to a certain extent. Stalberg didn't need to be signed yet as he was already Leafs property. And yes, he did remove guys like Battaglia, Devereaux, and a few career AHL scrubs which opened up contract slots. But I see no reason to glorify Burke for these transactions because every other GM in the league has, for all intents and purposes, done the exact same things. As you have pointed out, Burke has added prospects at no cost, but, once again, so has every other NHL GM.

As for Beauchemin and Komisarek, I think that Burke crapped the bed on those two guys. I actually wanted Beauchemin to sign with the Leafs this past summer because at the time because I thought that he would be a good fit. It is becoming clear to me that this is not the case as his play, for the most part, has been pretty brutal. As for Komisarek, I never wanted him in a Leaf jersey in the first place. His only real hockey skills are blocking shots, making a big hit now and then,and getting into the odd fight. He adds nothing else of any significance to the team. Even the much-maligned Jeff Finger can do what Komisarek does and can even score now and then at a more-cap-friendly price than Komisarek. Finger also takes less stupid penalties and is more defensively responsible than Komisarek.

Regarding Kessel, I've said it before but it looks like I'll have to say it again. The Kessel trade was an ill-timed and ill-advised transaction (not to mention a gross over-payment) and in my opinion should not have transpired when it did. Had they been able to delay it for one year, then the Leafs' current situation would not look so dire. Unfortunately, Burke just couldn't bring himself to believe that the organization was truly horrid and needed more than one star-type player to fix their problems. I believe that Burke's delusions of the Leafs being a play-off contender this season clearly clouded his sense of judgement when he made that trade. And yes, I freely acknowledge the fact that Kessel is a good young player. But is he truly worth, at this point in his young career, two firsts and a second, plus the $5.4m/yr, 5-year contract? I think not, but others will undoubtedly think otherwise.

As to the Marlies, they have a decent shot at making the AHL play-offs like they did last season. The only real differences from last season to this season that I see are a new and more effective coaching staff, fewer elder-statesmen, and a boost in the talent-level of the team.

As to the Leafs, what's left to be said about them that hasn't already been said ad nauseum so far this season? We all should have realized by now that last season's team majorly over-achieved and should have had a Top-5 draft pick this past summer. And everyone should realize by now that this team has started to show its true colors and, at the rate their going, is extremely likely to end up in the Bottom-5 whether anyone here wants them to or not.

And I agree with your statement that there will be more changes in the future; there always are. But will they be the right choices for this organization? I am not overly confident that they will be. I guess we'll just have to wait and see as per usual.

Furthermore, to your point about player-turnover, the Habs had just as much player-turnover, if not more, than the Leafs have had this past off-season. And they are challenging for a play-off berth whereas we're trying (not hard enough though) to not end up in the Bottom-5. To me, it's beginning to look like Gainey just might be the smarter Builder over Burke after all is said and done.

I have been patient with this team for over 35 years and my patience is starting to wear thin. I truly don't know how much more I can take of this gross incompetence shown by MLS&E. I want to see this team win the Cup so badly because I may soon no longer have any eyesight with which to witness such an event, should it ever happen. This whole organization, from Ownership to players, just frustrates me to no end. There are even times when I can't watch the full games because the team is just too god-damned brutal that it makes me physically ill.

No team should ever provoke that kind of a response from any member of their fan-base, but the Leafs seem to do so on a fairly regular basis.

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