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Old
11-09-2009, 06:05 PM
  #126
Hunter07
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Originally Posted by 4cups View Post
Dude, your still in school? Man I envy you!! I miss those day when I went to PACE University in Manhattan.
"Still in school" is a phrase that is running out of time for me, unfortunately. Only 1 more semester after this one : /
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BTW, I was at the 1st World Trade Center bombing. I was one of six people waiting at the Path Train when that bomb went off at 12:06PM.
And that is a crazy story
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Look long enough, you'll find someone who will argue that water is not wet and today is not Monday, November 9th, 2009.
Well now that you brought it up, my body felt like it was Monday yesterday. I slept last night like I was waking up for my Tuesday classes. And I keep thinking today is Tuesday. So I guess if it feels like a Tuesday, I keep thinking it is Tuesday, and my body is acting like it is a Tuesday, it must really be Tuesday and not Monday!!!

So, I guess you are right Trottier.

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Old
11-09-2009, 11:36 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Will he be a major part of a winning team?

I ask that only half-jokingly and it has little to do with JT. Has to do with the observation of how everyone on this thread seemingly will judge the player's success based solely on his personal stats.

I guess I'm weird. When CIsles suggested above that NYI fans should hope that JT becomes Turgeon and Okposo becomes Doan, I was prepared to write "spot on!" and his perspective, is in fact very solid. Only issue I have is that I want JT, unlike Turgeon, to lead a team to success. A Cup. He can come up with less points than Adam Oates and Turgeon, but if he is the #1 center on a Cup winner, mission accomplished. At least for this fan. Likewise, he can outscore both of them career wise and if the team doesn't win, big ****ing deal.

As for speed: sorry, I see Joe Thornton regular season vs. postseason, when the pace quickens. Speed matters...and it is a differentiator. Except among a few NYI fans...still. There are other examples.

That is not to suggest that I do not think JT can succeed down the road in the postseason, or that I consider him slow. But to pass off speed/quickness, or to make light of it as another poster did, is misguided, IMO. One only has to watch the playoffs to make that distinction. (Your point about adding speed to his line down the road, as I have suggested as well, makes perfect sense.)

This point about speed trancends JT, so I hope it is not misinterpreted as a slight against him. I am confident JT will evolve into a highly productive NHLer for the record, so no one should go there.
Agree with every word. I was saying in a very wordy paragraph that Tavares is the cornerstone. IOW, if this team is going to succeed, it is going to start with Tavares and Okposo (to a lesser extent). Do I think Tavares has the tools to succeed in the playoffs? I think watching how determined he really is on a game-to-game basis, going to the high traffic areas all the time, starting to win more puck battles in the corners - I do think he can and he will. This kid wants to be the best. And I know it's kind of cliche and lame to say but you need to have that determination to go anywhere in this league.

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Old
11-10-2009, 04:36 AM
  #128
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it is nearly impossible to try to analyze how well Tavares will be in the playoffs, he has played 16 NHL games!

if you will, I am wondering sans Malkin and Crosby last year, where are all the "elite skaters" that have won cups in the last 10 years or so in the NHL? (faster than Tavares at least). Not saying that speed is overrated, but the proclamations that he will never be elite or not elite don't matter to me. He had one game in the preseason that he just blew by a opposing defender. He will gain strength and a little more speed in his legsm i mean he is still 19. Jeez.
If Tavares is the guy that gets us, this season or next, into the playoffs (he was the difference between 8th and 9th) then i will suggest that the team really needs an upgrade or two to get to the next level (and it had very little to do with Tavares alone). One player no matter if he is the #1 center or not is not alone going to give us the extra oomph from outside the post season to 8th or from the 1st round to the second, etc. There has to be more. Him missing that one last jet to get to "elite/quick" skating skill won't matter.

What matters to me is winning the cup. We are a log way from that. This team looks like a .500 club or just below that, for the rest of teh season.

Everything I see from John Tavares makes me think he will be the cornerstone on this team. Everything else in his skill set says he has the chance to be an "elite" player in this league from years to come. But when it matters, in the playoffs competing for the cup, when he doesnt have that extra jet it will not be noticable because Okposo will be a beast cutting to the net, Bailey will be an assist man, the other JT will be digging pucks out of the boards, Streit will be a dominate #1 pairing man, deHaan and Hamonic will be developed NHL players with PP and PK skills. Other parts of the team will be developed too. Tavares missing that extra speed will not matter, IMHO, when it matters the most...when this team is ready to compete for the cup


We are a long way from that still.
(maybe a .500 team this year.....if i want to go out on a limb)

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Pnut

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Old
11-10-2009, 07:53 AM
  #129
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Only issue I have is that I want JT, unlike Turgeon, to lead a team to success. A Cup. He can come up with less points than Adam Oates and Turgeon, but if he is the #1 center on a Cup winner, mission accomplished. At least for this fan. Likewise, he can outscore both of them career wise and if the team doesn't win, big ****ing deal.
It is true that when all is said and done, the greatest measurement of their (JT and KO's) accomplishments will come in the form of what they do to help this team be, if not make this team, a winner.

No amount of points will speak louder than the contribution they make in that department, at least not in the eyes of a winner-starved Islander "fanscape".

Here's hoping that's where these boy's development leads them... and us.

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Old
11-12-2009, 06:33 AM
  #130
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Dont look now, but look who is leading both categories for rookies. God god, JT missed how many chances already and set up how many opps? he could well be over 20 points without even blinking. nice to see this below

" taken from NHL.com"


14

John Tavares
Canada
Left Wing - NYI
VIDEO ›

R. O'Reilly | COL 14
J. van Riemsdyk | PHI 14
M. Del Zotto | NYR 13
J. Benn | DAL 11

ALL STATS ›GOALS

5

John Tavares
Canada
Left Wing - NYI
VIDEO ›

R. O'Reilly | COL 4
M. Del Zotto | NYR 4
N. Bergfors | NJD 4
J. van Riemsdyk | PHI 3

ALL STATS ›

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Old
11-12-2009, 06:37 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Pnut View Post
it is nearly impossible to try to analyze how well Tavares will be in the playoffs, he has played 16 NHL games!

if you will, I am wondering sans Malkin and Crosby last year, where are all the "elite skaters" that have won cups in the last 10 years or so in the NHL? (faster than Tavares at least). Not saying that speed is overrated, but the proclamations that he will never be elite or not elite don't matter to me. He had one game in the preseason that he just blew by a opposing defender. He will gain strength and a little more speed in his legsm i mean he is still 19. Jeez.
If Tavares is the guy that gets us, this season or next, into the playoffs (he was the difference between 8th and 9th) then i will suggest that the team really needs an upgrade or two to get to the next level (and it had very little to do with Tavares alone). One player no matter if he is the #1 center or not is not alone going to give us the extra oomph from outside the post season to 8th or from the 1st round to the second, etc. There has to be more. Him missing that one last jet to get to "elite/quick" skating skill won't matter.

What matters to me is winning the cup. We are a log way from that. This team looks like a .500 club or just below that, for the rest of teh season.

Everything I see from John Tavares makes me think he will be the cornerstone on this team. Everything else in his skill set says he has the chance to be an "elite" player in this league from years to come. But when it matters, in the playoffs competing for the cup, when he doesnt have that extra jet it will not be noticable because Okposo will be a beast cutting to the net, Bailey will be an assist man, the other JT will be digging pucks out of the boards, Streit will be a dominate #1 pairing man, deHaan and Hamonic will be developed NHL players with PP and PK skills. Other parts of the team will be developed too. Tavares missing that extra speed will not matter, IMHO, when it matters the most...when this team is ready to compete for the cup


We are a long way from that still.
(maybe a .500 team this year.....if i want to go out on a limb)

,
Pnut
great post, I have to throw in Bergie, comeau and The Franz as secondary core members to this future team.

Bergie is my favorite, he will be a late bloomer popping in 20 a year with blazing speed and annoying the crap out of opponents. A poor mans John Tonelli if I may. cant wait to see him come playoff time with the beard and all just going for it. He will be a joy...

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Old
11-13-2009, 05:08 AM
  #132
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mm11 View Post
Dont look now, but look who is leading both categories for rookies. God god, JT missed how many chances already and set up how many opps? he could well be over 20 points without even blinking. nice to see this below

" taken from NHL.com"


14

John Tavares
Canada
Left Wing - NYI
VIDEO ›

R. O'Reilly | COL 14
J. van Riemsdyk | PHI 14
M. Del Zotto | NYR 13
J. Benn | DAL 11

ALL STATS ›GOALS

5

John Tavares
Canada
Left Wing - NYI
VIDEO ›

R. O'Reilly | COL 4
M. Del Zotto | NYR 4
N. Bergfors | NJD 4
J. van Riemsdyk | PHI 3

ALL STATS ›
This taken into consideration, I do think that Del Zotto and Van Riemsdyk, in that order, have been the NHL's most impressive rookies thus far. It's not just the points, but the responsibility they've assumed and successfully dealt with for their respective clubs.

Neither was a sure thing coming into the season.

Really wondering if O'Reilly can keep it up or if it's just the case of "right place at the right time" for this nice start to his career.

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Old
11-13-2009, 05:16 AM
  #133
Chapin Landvogt
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Originally Posted by mm11 View Post
great post, I have to throw in Bergie, comeau and The Franz as secondary core members to this future team.

Bergie is my favorite, he will be a late bloomer popping in 20 a year with blazing speed and annoying the crap out of opponents. A poor mans John Tonelli if I may. cant wait to see him come playoff time with the beard and all just going for it. He will be a joy...
I'm curious. Does anyone know the record of this team with Franz in the line-up?

How many games did he miss at the beginning of the season?

Bergie has worked all year, but has finally started getting some modest results the last 11 games or so.

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Old
11-13-2009, 05:42 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by CIsle View Post
This taken into consideration, I do think that Del Zotto and Van Riemsdyk, in that order, have been the NHL's most impressive rookies thus far. It's not just the points, but the responsibility they've assumed and successfully dealt with for their respective clubs.
Del Zotto looks all shiny on the PP, but the Rangers are giving up *way* too many goals for them.... Not saying it's Del Zotto's fault, but he's far from a complete player at this point.

Van Riemsdyk is playing with Jeff Carter and Briere either of whom would qualify as NYI's best offensive forwards right now. Let's not even talk about the flyers D vs. ours.

I'm not saying that Tavares has been more impressive than either... But I'd hardly say he has less responsibility. Unlike Del Zotto, he can't pass to Gaborik on the PP. Unlike JVR he's not surrounded by an extraordinarily deep group of skaters. He's got Matt Moulsen. Matt Moulsen's season is a testament to JT's ability to make others better in the O-zone.

JVR is a kid in a candy store. Did you see the goal he scored yesterday? All he had to do is be in the right place and keep his stick on the ice. Tavares has to create nearly all of his points.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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Old
11-13-2009, 07:30 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by mm11 View Post
great post, I have to throw in Bergie, comeau and The Franz as secondary core members to this future team.

Bergie is my favorite, he will be a late bloomer popping in 20 a year with blazing speed and annoying the crap out of opponents. A poor mans John Tonelli if I may. cant wait to see him come playoff time with the beard and all just going for it. He will be a joy...
thanks
I really started to come around on Bergie last season, everytime he did something in the gameday i typed "Im a Bergie believer!" I still do. Even Frans with his faceoff skills and speed. Comeau i am not sold on yet because he doesn't do anything i (or i think anyone else) can say "oh he is great doing X" Every forward player on the team should have a role and do something, not just eat up minutes like a dman does.
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Del Zotto looks all shiny on the PP, but the Rangers are giving up *way* too many goals for them.... Not saying it's Del Zotto's fault, but he's far from a complete player at this point.

Van Riemsdyk is playing with Jeff Carter and Briere either of whom would qualify as NYI's best offensive forwards right now. Let's not even talk about the flyers D vs. ours.

I'm not saying that Tavares has been more impressive than either... But I'd hardly say he has less responsibility. Unlike Del Zotto, he can't pass to Gaborik on the PP. Unlike JVR he's not surrounded by an extraordinarily deep group of skaters. He's got Matt Moulsen. Matt Moulsen's season is a testament to JT's ability to make others better in the O-zone.

JVR is a kid in a candy store. Did you see the goal he scored yesterday? All he had to do is be in the right place and keep his stick on the ice. Tavares has to create nearly all of his points.

Cheers,

Dan-o
great post to you Dan-o. I wonder how great John T would look with just Briere to his right and Moulsen there. Let alone a better LW than my boy Matt Moulson.

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Old
11-15-2009, 10:45 AM
  #136
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After 20 games, what are your thoughts on Tavares on the wing vs. Tavares at Center? Lately, I have been thinking what would benefit the team more.

So far, I can see arguments for both:

Tavares at Center:

Pros:

- Pretty good on faceoffs and should keep getting better

- Very good playmaking skills (probably his most underrated skill when coming into the draft)

- Willingness to get better

Cons:

- Doesn't have the speed you would want from the pivot. This alone could keep him from becoming a prototypical 2-way center


Tavares on the wing:

Pros:

- Less defensive responsibility which allows him to focus more on the offensive game where he excels.

- Let a more defensive/speedier center help set up the breakout and allow for a more fluid breakout.

- Playmaking center for Tavares could add even more goals to his resume

- Willingness to get better


Cons:

- IMO, doesnt have the strength yet to dig in the corners and consistently win the battles against NHL dmen

- Playmaking skills wont be taken advantage of as much on the wing as they would at center


What are your pros/cons for both center and wing?

If you think he should move to wing, who should be his center?

- I have really liked Park on his line and think he would be the best fit as his center. While he doesnt bring the playmaking skills, he brings the speed and defensive responsibility.

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:22 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayoffBeard View Post
After 20 games, what are your thoughts on Tavares on the wing vs. Tavares at Center? Lately, I have been thinking what would benefit the team more.

So far, I can see arguments for both:

Tavares at Center:

Pros:

- Pretty good on faceoffs and should keep getting better

- Very good playmaking skills (probably his most underrated skill when coming into the draft)

- Willingness to get better

Cons:

- Doesn't have the speed you would want from the pivot. This alone could keep him from becoming a prototypical 2-way center


Tavares on the wing:

Pros:

- Less defensive responsibility which allows him to focus more on the offensive game where he excels.

- Let a more defensive/speedier center help set up the breakout and allow for a more fluid breakout.

- Playmaking center for Tavares could add even more goals to his resume

- Willingness to get better


Cons:

- IMO, doesnt have the strength yet to dig in the corners and consistently win the battles against NHL dmen

- Playmaking skills wont be taken advantage of as much on the wing as they would at center


What are your pros/cons for both center and wing?

If you think he should move to wing, who should be his center?

- I have really liked Park on his line and think he would be the best fit as his center. While he doesnt bring the playmaking skills, he brings the speed and defensive responsibility.
JT has been far better at Center than his limited time on the wing. As you point out, he's very good on draws.... look no further than the GTG last night vs. Fla.

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Old
11-15-2009, 06:09 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Pnut View Post
it is nearly impossible to try to analyze how well Tavares will be in the playoffs, he has played 16 NHL games!
So far, he has the uncanny naturalability to be in the right place at the right time as a goal scoring threat in the NHL. Not many players in the NHL have that ability, let alone a 19yr old.

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Old
11-15-2009, 06:39 PM
  #139
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The fact that he leads rookies in scoring while playing with no established scorers is quite impressive. He's played with Okposo a decent amount but Okposo isn't some established NHL scorer. And he's put up 7 points in the last 4 games playing with Moulson and Park. He's performed as advertised.

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