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Tortorella: We need puck

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11-16-2009, 07:25 AM
  #1
The Perfect Paradox
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Tortorella: We need puck

Thought this was a pretty good read.

Quote:
"I think we've shown that if we give our best we can be right up there, but that if we don't it could be tough for us," said Lundqvist, who was superb throughout Saturday's 2-1 shootout victory in Ottawa. "It's good that we've seen both sides already.
Quote:
"We know that we have to be aggressive in order to be successful, but not to the point where we want to be going back and forth and trading two-on-ones all game or all year. That's not the plan. We're still learning. We're still developing an identity. I don't think we've established who we are yet. I don't think we've figured it out. I know that I have to play better. I think our whole team can play better. But I think we've seen we can be a very good team when we're at our best, and that gives us some confidence that we have something to build on."
Quote:
"Ask me to assess where we are right now when we haven't been winning consistently, and to the question of are we where we want to be, the answer is no, basically from the standpoint of forechecking," Tortorella said yesterday. "Forechecking is a part of the game we have to be better at.

"A big part of our identity is having the puck, and I don't think we've had the puck enough through this last stretch. It's something we have to improve on. We have to get forwards pressuring the defense the way opposing forwards pressure our defense. We need to keep the puck when we get it and not be worked off of it like we've been too often. Our deep forecheck needs to be improved upon. We have to be strong on the puck. It's not just about having the willingness to battle, it's about winning the battle and then keeping the puck after the battle
Quote:
"We're not consistent enough at that. Because of that, we haven't spent enough time in the offensive zone. Except for the Atlanta game [a 5-4 defeat on Thursday], I think we've defended well, but we've spent too much time defending in our own end. So from the standpoint of establishing our game, we haven't done it yet when it comes to having the puck."
Quote:
The Rangers have placed Drury, who is suffering from intermittent if not severe post-concussion symptoms, on injured reserve. They have made no move yet regarding Dubinsky.

The Rangers could place Dubinsky on the long term injury list and thus gain temporary use of an approximate additional $1.2M of cap space in his absence, but management appears hopeful that Dubinsky will be able to return prior to the 10-game minimum requirement for LTI status.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...Ofp3g7wX1F3I/1

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11-16-2009, 07:44 AM
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HockeyBasedNYC
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I think the Rangers give the puck away waaay too much. It all starts with the defenseman.

I think i counted 15-20 (maybe more) turnovers from Redden alone in the game against Ottawa. Maybe more. Half of them were unforced. You gotta make it tougher on the opposition...

By turnovers i mean straight up giveaways, terrible passes leading to a takeaway, passes hard to handle and clearing off the glass or to an open space, giving away possession.

I think part of the problem is that the forwards vacate the zone quickly and some of the defenseman, like Rozsival and Redden specifically become stationary and don't force the forecheckers back with speed, a move or a pass to their partner. But it also has to do with patience. These defenseman have to hold onto it for a second longer. When the Rangers are going good the defenseman are reading the forwards better, they have support and they are taking a hit to make a play. There are times when you have to zip it out quickly. Other times holding on to it isnt bad. Possession is key for this system.

Too many long passes through the blue line. I dont know if thats part of the system, but if it is then the Rangers have to rethink that. Del Zotto is the best outlet passer the Rangers have. The others are much more effective passers when they have shorter, supported passes. Guys like Girardi, Redden and Staal are really adept at drawing a defender to them and dishing a puck off to a forward to start the rush from the defensive zone out. They need to do this more rather than just getting rid of it and hoping a Ranger skates into it or controls it.

IMO, If they start possessing the puck more on defense theyll start possessing it more on offense.

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11-16-2009, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
By turnovers i mean straight up giveaways, terrible passes leading to a takeaway, passes hard to handle and clearing off the glass or to an open space, giving away possession.
That's not really a fair way to evaluate him. More often than not, clearing the puck off the glass is a better play than forcing a pass because the forwards jump the gun and assume they can catch a breakout. Making the smart defensive play shouldn't count as a turn over.

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11-16-2009, 09:32 AM
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The most important thing about that article is that Drury appears to be gone for quite some time...

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11-16-2009, 09:59 AM
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Well the Drury being on I.R. is interesting because didn't the coach say he isn't that bad and was possible for the next game? Was it yet another Torts lie ? or did the Rangers hire the Mets doctors ? If he was so bad why did he fly that night back to NY when flying intensifies symptoms they need to be held accountable with these issues

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11-16-2009, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Well the Drury being on I.R. is interesting because didn't the coach say he isn't that bad and was possible for the next game? Was it yet another Torts lie ? or did the Rangers hire the Mets doctors ? If he was so bad why did he fly that night back to NY when flying intensifies symptoms they need to be held accountable with these issues
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11-16-2009, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Well the Drury being on I.R. is interesting because didn't the coach say he isn't that bad and was possible for the next game? Was it yet another Torts lie ? or did the Rangers hire the Mets doctors ? If he was so bad why did he fly that night back to NY when flying intensifies symptoms they need to be held accountable with these issues
He said he's 'Possible' for the next game, which means there's a chance he won't play. I'm not sure how that could be considered a lie.

By most accounts, Drury looked alright when Tortorella made that comment. He had been riding the bike all day, but with concussions, you can never be sure. I've had one myself and one day I felt just fine, the next I could barely walk to the kitchen.

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11-16-2009, 10:11 AM
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Concussions are tricky and sometimes, I think, overlooked in the sports world. It's hard to believe any news related to someone suffering from one because it can change on a day to day and hour to hour basis. Sheldon Souray suffered one three games into the season and just returned yesterday. In contrast, Brian Westbrook suffered one last week, came back this week and suffered another which could potentially threaten his future. Honestly I was shocked when I heard Drury might play last week, only five days after the incident.

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11-16-2009, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
He said he's 'Possible' for the next game, which means there's a chance he won't play. I'm not sure how that could be considered a lie.

By most accounts, Drury looked alright when Tortorella made that comment. He had been riding the bike all day, but with concussions, you can never be sure. I've had one myself and one day I felt just fine, the next I could barely walk to the kitchen.
I agree and I have had 4 major concussion in my time as a wrestler and if you have even a low grade one your not playing hockey 4 days later . They are very serious and the fact he even mentioned Drury as possible makes me wonder if he is that clueless. Tort was quoted as saying he is day to day and might play Thurs. That is a outright stupid thing to say imo. Torts knew he was in bad shape and again imo that fact he is on i.r. from the hit makes the team and coach look worse for not responding to it

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11-16-2009, 10:36 AM
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If Drury's concussion is even just moderate, he should sit out at least a week or two longer.

EDIT: I have no idea how I missed him being put on IR. Well, good. Concussions are serious business, and the failure of professional sports teams/leagues to properly diagnose and treat them has had serious consequences on many lives. Drury shouldn't be anywhere near the rink until he is 100% symptom-free.

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11-16-2009, 10:40 AM
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We need another star player.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg
Crosby/Malkin
Thornton/Heatley
Ovechkin/Semin/Green

This team won't do squat with just Gaborik. We have the elite goalie, but he can't score goals.

Grachev/Gaborik perhaps?

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11-16-2009, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I agree and I have had 4 major concussion in my time as a wrestler and if you have even a low grade one your not playing hockey 4 days later . They are very serious and the fact he even mentioned Drury as possible makes me wonder if he is that clueless. Tort was quoted as saying he is day to day and might play Thurs. That is a outright stupid thing to say imo. Torts knew he was in bad shape and again imo that fact he is on i.r. from the hit makes the team and coach look worse for not responding to it
Except Drury was feeling fine one day and was exercising and everything...which led the coach to think that things weren't too bad and they wouldn't have to put him on the IR. Then the next day things got worse.

There's no point in *****ing at, or "calling out", Tortorella for saying something that within the realm of reason at the time...if Drury was in the condition he is now when Torts was asked that question, I'm sure he would have said "no, we're keeping him out", just like he's saying now. But at the time, Drury looked alright and like he wasn't going to miss a lot of time.

You're really just looking for reasons to complain about the coach, but this is not a valid one.

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11-16-2009, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Except Drury was feeling fine one day and was exercising and everything...which led the coach to think that things weren't too bad and they wouldn't have to put him on the IR. Then the next day things got worse.

There's no point in *****ing at, or "calling out", Tortorella for saying something that within the realm of reason at the time...if Drury was in the condition he is now when Torts was asked that question, I'm sure he would have said "no, we're keeping him out", just like he's saying now. But at the time, Drury looked alright and like he wasn't going to miss a lot of time.

You're really just looking for reasons to complain about the coach, but this is not a valid one.
ding ding ding

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11-16-2009, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I think the Rangers give the puck away waaay too much. It all starts with the defenseman.
I think you mistook turnovers for puck possession. Torts talks about the latter one, not the former you do. Puck possession is more complex and requires higher skills. It is what mostly forwards do, although defensemen are there in the scope...
Funny enough, but puck possession is what Renney system was based on. I thought Torts will bring about speed and will institute the transition game.
I think Sather is confused there as well. He brought in sequentially Cullien and Gomez who were both speedy guys and had no place in Renney hockey, yet he rid of Nylander, Jagr and Zherdev who were puck possession specialists.
If Torts wants to reverse to puck possession doctrine, this team is still better suited for it. Besides Gaborik who can play anything, Higgins will strive in it as well as Anysimov and Dubinski. I think Torts has realized he has to play whatever works.


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11-16-2009, 12:04 PM
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Big difference, though, Jagr held the puck for too long and it worked more often than not. Zherdev held the puck for too long and it didn't work. And Sather didn't really "get rid" of either - they both chose to go elsewhere for more money. You can make an argument about Jagr in that regard, but not Zherdev. We didn't have 8-10 million for Jagr either, though, and I'm sure Sather and Jags both knew it.

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11-16-2009, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by pwoz View Post
We need another star player.

Datsyuk/Zetterberg
Crosby/Malkin
Thornton/Heatley
Ovechkin/Semin/Green

This team won't do squat with just Gaborik. We have the elite goalie, but he can't score goals.

Grachev/Gaborik perhaps?

We should probobly wait until Grachev can prove to outplay parenteau and byers before we start considering him for 1st line minutes...chances are we may never actually see him in a NYR jersey, we've been through this way too many times already to think otherwise.

gabby accounts for 25% of this teams offense, which is utterly rediculous. Whats even more rediculous is the amount of the scoring thats done on the PP. Imagine where this team would be without gabby and/or the PP.

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11-16-2009, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeHamiltonsTan View Post
We should probobly wait until Grachev can prove to outplay parenteau and byers before we start considering him for 1st line minutes...chances are we may never actually see him in a NYR jersey, we've been through this way too many times already to think otherwise.

gabby accounts for 25% of this teams offense, which is utterly rediculous. Whats even more rediculous is the amount of the scoring thats done on the PP. Imagine where this team would be without gabby and/or the PP.
Oh, how times have changed.

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11-16-2009, 12:33 PM
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Big difference, though, Jagr held the puck for too long and it worked more often than not. Zherdev held the puck for too long and it didn't work. And Sather didn't really "get rid" of either - they both chose to go elsewhere for more money. You can make an argument about Jagr in that regard, but not Zherdev. We didn't have 8-10 million for Jagr either, though, and I'm sure Sather and Jags both knew it.
Let's not make it another Zherdev thread...

Sure if you"ve got LeCavalier and Richards and St Louis you can dominate once you obtain the puck and forechecking is the best way to get it. With current Ranger team even if you create a turnover somehow, there is no way to keep the puck, unless 1st line is on the ice. Yet our best forecheckers are not on that line, so Torts keeps Gabi and Vinny together and throws the third fellow from time to time in place of Lisin who is no good at forchecking. Can we get Steve Ruccin back? We need a 2nd line. It starts with C.

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11-16-2009, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Except Drury was feeling fine one day and was exercising and everything...which led the coach to think that things weren't too bad and they wouldn't have to put him on the IR. Then the next day things got worse.

There's no point in *****ing at, or "calling out", Tortorella for saying something that within the realm of reason at the time...if Drury was in the condition he is now when Torts was asked that question, I'm sure he would have said "no, we're keeping him out", just like he's saying now. But at the time, Drury looked alright and like he wasn't going to miss a lot of time.

You're really just looking for reasons to complain about the coach, but this is not a valid one.
No you are wrong imo. Torts is the coach and unless he is a idiot he said "Drury is doing ok and may play thurs." You don't have 2-3 major concussions like Drury has had and get another and be ok in 4 days. Torts was dodging the fact his gutless puke of a team didn't respond to it and he was trying to make it sound not as bad as it was. He lied folks and yes I am picking on him but hasn't been honest from day one here in NY


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11-16-2009, 12:40 PM
  #20
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Let's not make it another Zherdev thread...

Sure if you"ve got LeCavalier and Richards and St Louis you can dominate once you obtain the puck and forechecking is the best way to get it. With current Ranger team even if you create a turnover somehow, there is no way to keep the puck, unless 1st line is on the ice. Yet our best forecheckers are not on that line, so Torts keeps Gabi and Vinny together and throws the third fellow from time to time in place of Lisin who is no good at forchecking. Can we get Steve Ruccin back? We need a 2nd line. It starts with C.
That is why it was such a silly decision to take Dubinsky away from Gaborik and Prospal.

That line was straight up dominating the first several games of the season. It was helped by having a guy like Dubinsky who could get in there and cause some havoc/opening up space? Prospal and Gaborik are getting by on pure talent alone now...putting up similar numbers...but their line is nowhere near the consistent force it was early in the year when they had someone to do the grunt work. Breaking up that line has been Tortorella's most egregious coaching error so far this season.

And in favor of what? Enver Lisin? Who skates around fast and does nothing else?

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11-16-2009, 12:55 PM
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That is why it was such a silly decision to take Dubinsky away from Gaborik and Prospal.

That line was straight up dominating the first several games of the season. It was helped by having a guy like Dubinsky who could get in there and cause some havoc/opening up space? Prospal and Gaborik are getting by on pure talent alone now...putting up similar numbers...but their line is nowhere near the consistent force it was early in the year when they had someone to do the grunt work. Breaking up that line has been Tortorella's most egregious coaching error so far this season.

And in favor of what? Enver Lisin? Who skates around fast and does nothing else?
Agreed, but in Torts defense he needed Dubi elsewhere. Drury couldn't carry the 2nd because with all his clutch plays and such, he's never beenable to hold on to the puck really. Dubi can play puck possession game, but he is inconsistent and on some nights when Torts counted on him he drove him nuts by being good for nothing except hitting and PK. Now it is all over, we do not have have neither Drury nor Dubi. I think the situation presents the unique opportunity for Higgins. He played C real well against OTT. I am looking forward to see him again in that role.

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11-16-2009, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Let's not make it another Zherdev thread...

Sure if you"ve got LeCavalier and Richards and St Louis you can dominate once you obtain the puck and forechecking is the best way to get it. With current Ranger team even if you create a turnover somehow, there is no way to keep the puck, unless 1st line is on the ice. Yet our best forecheckers are not on that line, so Torts keeps Gabi and Vinny together and throws the third fellow from time to time in place of Lisin who is no good at forchecking. Can we get Steve Ruccin back? We need a 2nd line. It starts with C.
I didn't bring up Zherdev...

In any event, Torts came here last March, right? Sather has had a summer to get players that are more to Torts' liking. I think Gaborik, Higgins, Prospal, Lisin, etc... are Torts type players. I don't think Rozy, Redden, Drury, Avery, Voros, etc... are and I think it's way to early to rake him over the coals for 20 games with an entirely new team that probably isn't composed exactly the way he would like. I have to give him at least two or three years before throwing him under the bus and give the players more time to play the way Torts wants them to.

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11-16-2009, 01:08 PM
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That is why it was such a silly decision to take Dubinsky away from Gaborik and Prospal.

That line was straight up dominating the first several games of the season. It was helped by having a guy like Dubinsky who could get in there and cause some havoc/opening up space? Prospal and Gaborik are getting by on pure talent alone now...putting up similar numbers...but their line is nowhere near the consistent force it was early in the year when they had someone to do the grunt work. Breaking up that line has been Tortorella's most egregious coaching error so far this season.

And in favor of what? Enver Lisin? Who skates around fast and does nothing else?
and since then, opposing coaching staffs have review miles of film on us and have had time to put in place defensive systems to stop our 1st line. thats not unusual.

if im not mistaken, the beloved brandon dubinksy went something like 2 points in 8 games playing with the big boys. not. very. good.

now dubi is hurt, so its an non issues really. who cares what was what when we went 7-1. we need to make changes now to start winning games with whom we have on the ice now. it makes no difference hashing and rehashing things in the past.

some here love looking in the rearview mirror to see into the future.

makes no sense. time to move forward.

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11-16-2009, 01:16 PM
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and since then, opposing coaching staffs have review miles of film on us and have had time to put in place defensive systems to stop our 1st line. thats not unusual.

i
True, yet they also had all videos on Straka/Hossa-Nylander-Jagr and could do little about them.

I think BRB is correct and Dubi will re-join Prospal-Gabi once he is 100% (i.e. January) possibly as a left winger.

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11-16-2009, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
That is why it was such a silly decision to take Dubinsky away from Gaborik and Prospal.

That line was straight up dominating the first several games of the season. It was helped by having a guy like Dubinsky who could get in there and cause some havoc/opening up space? Prospal and Gaborik are getting by on pure talent alone now...putting up similar numbers...but their line is nowhere near the consistent force it was early in the year when they had someone to do the grunt work. Breaking up that line has been Tortorella's most egregious coaching error so far this season.

And in favor of what? Enver Lisin? Who skates around fast and does nothing else?
Yes, I loved that line than anything else. Rangers results started go down after Torts executed line changes.

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