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Malone and Scuderi for Rivet in 2007

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Old
11-16-2009, 01:40 PM
  #26
Guillemin
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
It was talked about late last week.Look I'm not sure if Gainey really did say that about Scuderi but anyways the point in all of this is I think he made a better move trading Rivet for Gorges and a 1st(Pacioretty)

Malone would have left as a FA and Scuderi in is first year you can ask Penguins fans wasn't that good
Or we could have paid him 4.5 M to be totally inconsistent. Yeaah, that's clearly better than Gorges and MaxPac.

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11-16-2009, 01:43 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Guillemin View Post
Or we could have paid him 4.5 M to be totally inconsistent. Yeaah, that's clearly better than Gorges and MaxPac.
Especially in Montreal,at the salary he is making now he would have been booed out of town

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11-16-2009, 03:03 PM
  #28
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I think its unfair to judge the potential of that non-trade based on the assessment of the players' abilities today. Malone's value really sky rocketed in 2008 during the Cup run and Scuderi's in 2009.

The way I would look at it if I was projecting into the future is this.
Malone VS the 1st round pick
Scuderi vs Gorges

At the time, Gorges and Scuderi were a wash. Gorges was a young defenseman who has yet to establish himself. Scuderi was a serviceable defenseman that can really help a team's depth.

It comes down to what Gainey and Timmins think they can get with San Jose's pick. Obviously, they knew it would be a late 1st round pick. Their assessment must have been that potential player would be better or a cheaper alternative to Malone.

Right now, Scuderi and Gorges are both comparable players. Malone is clearly much better than Pacioretty. I think the difference is that Gorges and Pacioretty are cheap contracts whereas Scuderi and Malone are not. Pacioretty may or may not develop into the PWF we crave but that's another story. I think this was a good non trade for us considering how cap strapped we are.

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11-16-2009, 03:03 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
if this rumour is true, it's a good non-move on Gainey's part. though it's tough to understand the part about not-knowing anything about Scuderi. Even if he was a fringe player at the time, he had played over 100 games in the NHL.
Well the other thing too is that you can't always take literally something you overhear a scout or GM talking about to a counterpart. I mean, Gainey could say to Shero "hey, is that Scuderi guy playing in the AHL?" and you know, it doesn't mean that Gainey doesn't know who Scuderi is or exactly what he's doing. It means that as a negotiating tactic, he's starting off devaluing Scuderi by giving the impression that he doesn't even know this 'fringe minor leaguer'. Angling for something better.

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11-16-2009, 03:06 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Well the other thing too is that you can't always take literally something you overhear a scout or GM talking about to a counterpart. I mean, Gainey could say to Shero "hey, is that Scuderi guy playing in the AHL?" and you know, it doesn't mean that Gainey doesn't know who Scuderi is or exactly what he's doing. It means that as a negotiating tactic, he's starting off devaluing Scuderi by giving the impression that he doesn't even know this 'fringe minor leaguer'. Angling for something better.
Agreed. And in all fairness to Gainey, how is he suppose to know every single player in the league? Isn't that pro scouting's job?

Other questions to ask is how credible is Marinaro? I don't live in Montreal but I know of Montreal media's tendencies to exaggerate things.....

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11-16-2009, 03:55 PM
  #31
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Malone is a helluva player, I bet Crosby wishes he still had him on his wing lol.

Tampa took a big risk signing him to a 4.5m, 7 yr contract, good for them that it's working out so far. Him beside Stamkos will be an impact line in the league for a while.

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11-16-2009, 03:58 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Malone is a helluva player, I bet Crosby wishes he still had him on his wing lol.

Tampa took a big risk signing him to a 4.5m, 7 yr contract, good for them that it's working out so far. Him beside Stamkos will be an impact line in the league for a while.
Malone is an average player who gets overrated because of who he played with. Before Crosby and Malkin he was a 20 goal 2nd liner on a non playoff team.

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11-16-2009, 04:08 PM
  #33
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In all fairness to Gainey.

A) he's not psychic and he's said many times that he doesn't scout, that's what his scouts are for.

B) At the time Scuderi was in the AHL and if given the offer between him and a 1st, I'm most certain most everyone here at THAT time would have taken a 1st round pick.

C) Malone, as well as he is doing now, has never scored more then 30 goals and never had more then 51 points playing on a line with Crosby!

Hindsight is 20/20 and I still think we fleeced San Jose for Gorges and a 1st (Max Pac) who could still very well develop into a better player then Malone. Not to mention that those 2 players cost a lot more then Gorges and Max Pac.

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11-16-2009, 04:13 PM
  #34
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I really like Malone and hoped that he would sign here, but was happy he didn't for that money at the time. He may very well prove to be worth that contract, though.

As far as the rumour itself, it's hard to take seriously considering where it's coming from. There are probably ways that I could describe Marinaro, but 'professional broadcaster' is not one of them. When he's not stating the totally obvious he's making openly unfounded assumptions about the 'real' feelings between our players. He's a walking, talking textbook of broadcasting cliches.

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11-16-2009, 04:14 PM
  #35
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'breaking news from 2 years ago!'

all of a sudden marinara sauce learns. like where would this suddenly pop out of? not like he's been holding on to this 'info' since that time either.

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11-16-2009, 04:20 PM
  #36
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We would. If we had them 2, then we wouldn't have had the money to bring in the worst contract in the league. I could easily live with that!
When did the Rangers trade us Chris Drury and Wade Redden?

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11-16-2009, 04:24 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by inBobwetrust View Post
Hal Gill made Scuderi what he is today.
He made him 6'7''?

Can he help Gionta and Cammalleri grow too then?

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Old
11-16-2009, 04:28 PM
  #38
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Malone is an average player who gets overrated because of who he played with. Before Crosby and Malkin he was a 20 goal 2nd liner on a non playoff team.
Malone can score 25-35 goals, is huge, intimidating, and will drop the gloves. He gets to play with good centres because he compliments them well. He is not an average player.

Not a Gainey bashing thing, cuz the return he got for Rivet was great, and I think that contract is too long, but Tampa at the time was terrible and had to put extra meat on a contract to attract players, a gamble that is so far so good. Wingers who aren't as good get similar UFA contracts. If Michael Ryder can get 4 million, Malone at 4.5 is definitely ok (for now, jury's out if his game will hold up in 5 years under that rough style).

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11-16-2009, 04:34 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Before I start, I just want to say that I was and have always been a believer in Bob Gainey and this thread is in no, way, shape or form a another thread wanting him fired, however...

According to Tony Marinaro on the Team 990, in 2007 Ray Shero offered Gainey Malone and Scuderi for Craig Rivet! Gainey said let me think about it and I will call you back, according to Tony, Gainey did not know Scuderi played in the NHL and asked Shero if he is an AHL player in Wilkes-Barre.

This is our GM for you!

As much as I love Gorges and believe in Pacioretty, we could of had Malone and Scuderi.
Ya, and Iginla approached the Habs bench saying ''I will fight anybody at any time during this game'' .

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Old
11-16-2009, 04:36 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
He made him 6'7''?

Can he help Gionta and Cammalleri grow too then?


Scuderi is 6'0..

The poster said Hal Gill made Scuderi what he is today, not the other way around..

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Old
11-16-2009, 04:37 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
Especially in Montreal,at the salary he is making now he would have been booed out of town
Even is he had 12G and was PPG after 20 games?

I doubt it.

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Old
11-16-2009, 04:48 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post


Scuderi is 6'0..

The poster said Hal Gill made Scuderi what he is today, not the other way around..
He has a point tho, Hal Gill DOES make his partner look better by comparison.

I'm kidding, get well soon Hal, we need ya back

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Old
11-16-2009, 05:07 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
Malone can score 25-35 goals, is huge, intimidating, and will drop the gloves. He gets to play with good centres because he compliments them well. He is not an average player.

Not a Gainey bashing thing, cuz the return he got for Rivet was great, and I think that contract is too long, but Tampa at the time was terrible and had to put extra meat on a contract to attract players, a gamble that is so far so good. Wingers who aren't as good get similar UFA contracts. If Michael Ryder can get 4 million, Malone at 4.5 is definitely ok (for now, jury's out if his game will hold up in 5 years under that rough style).
LMAO

25 to 35 goals?

He scored 27 playing with Crosby and/or Malkin, it just doesn't get any better. I'm sure Lapierre could top that.

He's a big guy that at times uses his size, other times he looks slow and uninterested. Not "intimidating" as you are trying to suggest.

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Old
11-16-2009, 10:19 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Well the other thing too is that you can't always take literally something you overhear a scout or GM talking about to a counterpart. I mean, Gainey could say to Shero "hey, is that Scuderi guy playing in the AHL?" and you know, it doesn't mean that Gainey doesn't know who Scuderi is or exactly what he's doing. It means that as a negotiating tactic, he's starting off devaluing Scuderi by giving the impression that he doesn't even know this 'fringe minor leaguer'. Angling for something better.
i would absolutely hope that you're right.

though given some of the questionable decisions made at the pro-scouting level in the past few years, i get the impression that as an organization (not necessarily Gainey's fault, though he is the one most accountable), we aren't doing a very good job of our "homework" as far as evaluating the talent around the league.

Huet and Gorges would be the two "exceptions", we can only hope that they found their way into the deal because we targeted them, and not because they were negotiated in by the other side (granted however we got them, we still got them... but as far as a reflection of how well our management is running their business, the "how" becomes a little more important)

besides all that, a rumour like that doesn't really tell us much of anything, but it is fun to speculate (and read other peoples speculations...)

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Old
11-16-2009, 10:27 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestIslander View Post
Before I start, I just want to say that I was and have always been a believer in Bob Gainey and this thread is in no, way, shape or form a another thread wanting him fired, however...

According to Tony Marinaro on the Team 990, in 2007 Ray Shero offered Gainey Malone and Scuderi for Craig Rivet! Gainey said let me think about it and I will call you back, according to Tony, Gainey did not know Scuderi played in the NHL and asked Shero if he is an AHL player in Wilkes-Barre.

This is our GM for you!

As much as I love Gorges and believe in Pacioretty, we could of had Malone and Scuderi.
BEYOND stupid. What we got for Rivet is better than this. I swear, some of you are borderline Pens fans... Malone is putting up numbers cause he's playing with superstars, and Scuderi = Hal Gill but a bit faster.

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11-17-2009, 08:30 AM
  #46
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lol @ tony. It's Gainey Bashing Week (last week was Martin) so of course he has to come out with some random bs rumor like this. It's unbelievable the amount of clowns there is in the media here. It's pretty bad when even PJ Stock can find a daily job on the radio.

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Old
11-17-2009, 09:49 AM
  #47
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LMAO

25 to 35 goals?

He scored 27 playing with Crosby and/or Malkin, it just doesn't get any better. I'm sure Lapierre could top that.

He's a big guy that at times uses his size, other times he looks slow and uninterested. Not "intimidating" as you are trying to suggest.
did you not read this thread? He already has 12 goals this season, picked up 2 more assists last night. But whatever continue to post that the guy who is currently top 30 in NHL scoring (on a 40g, PPG pace), and had an impact role in a SCF 2 run 2 seasons ago sucks.

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Old
11-17-2009, 10:18 AM
  #48
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
i would absolutely hope that you're right.

though given some of the questionable decisions made at the pro-scouting level in the past few years, i get the impression that as an organization (not necessarily Gainey's fault, though he is the one most accountable), we aren't doing a very good job of our "homework" as far as evaluating the talent around the league.

Huet and Gorges would be the two "exceptions", we can only hope that they found their way into the deal because we targeted them, and not because they were negotiated in by the other side (granted however we got them, we still got them... but as far as a reflection of how well our management is running their business, the "how" becomes a little more important)

besides all that, a rumour like that doesn't really tell us much of anything, but it is fun to speculate (and read other peoples speculations...)
Well, I know I'm right in that it's a possibility, but nobody knows the specific context, of course, not even whoever claims to have heard about it originally.

Personally, I think many NHL GMs are less aware of players than I would expect somebody in their positions to be. But I also don't think I have a good handle on the non-hockey demands of their job, so maybe they just don't have time to know who all the Scuderis and so on are. I'm sure Gainey would not be alone amongst GMs if he was in that category. And yes, ultimately that's why teams have pro scouts and assistant GMs. And I've always suspected Gauthier's abilities in that regard.

I'd put my money on Huet and Gorges having been throw-ins that their previous teams were just looking to dump, and just warm bodies that we agreed to take on, without any special insight into their potential. But that happens both ways for all teams all the time.

Who knows. End of the day, I agree that the speculation is fun.

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Old
11-17-2009, 10:23 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Turboflex View Post
did you not read this thread? He already has 12 goals this season, picked up 2 more assists last night. But whatever continue to post that the guy who is currently top 30 in NHL scoring (on a 40g, PPG pace)
It's nice that he's on a hot streak and all, but lots of players get great streaks and they're only this visible when they happen at the start of the season because people only look at counting numbers (and as meaningful stats go, counting numbers aren't very good). Reminds me of when Cammalleri went on a similar tear 2-3 years ago and people were muttering about the Richard trophy.

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Old
11-17-2009, 10:27 AM
  #50
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He was still an impact player during the 2008 playoffs, how do you think he got that big contract? It wasn't just cuz of being Crosby/Malkin winger and banging in their sweet cross ice saucer passes, he was recognized by a lot of observers as being a guy who was out there making lots of room for his teammates.

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