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2009/10 - Lines Discussion - (ES/PP/PK) - Part II

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Old
11-09-2009, 03:00 PM
  #426
Garbage Goal
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
That post is so full of BS, it's not even funny.

Havlat played on the second line of the Blackhawks last season with some pretty good offensive players, that line was there to score, not to play defense (what would be the job of line #3).

You gotta maximize your players strenght and minimize their weakness by putting them on spots were they can succeed.
Putting Gagne with two grinders who barely can break the 30points blateau won't help him one bit.

Gagne is a sniper, he won't turn two of our grinders into 50point players, he will occasionally score one of a cycle or on a breakaway, but he won't produce as he can.
Thank you.

Quote:
I agree with this. Even if it was Giroux or JVR, who are more playmakers than scorers, on a line with grinders it would not be good for them. They would probably have more success than someone like Gagne who relies on his center to set him up in the slot, but they still would not produce the way they are capable of.

To say "If they cannot create some offense on the third line, then they're probably not all that good offensively anyway." is misleading. Because yes they will be able to create some offense, but how many times would Giroux or JVR set up someone in a perfect spot and have them flub it. We saw it last year, Giroux was able to get more out of third line players than what they usually gave, but they were still third line players, they still blew far more chances then they cashed in on. And yes I know most everyone blows more chances then they actually score on, but who do you think is going to screw up more gift passes, Briere/Gagne or Powe/Asham?
And thank you.

I just gave up. It's so tiresome and frustrating to try and talk with Jester for me that I just don't even care enough to keep responding.

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Old
11-10-2009, 10:54 AM
  #427
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via Tim P's twitter

"@tpanotch Parent, Briere, JVR, Tollefesen all practicing ... And with regular lines and pairings. They all may be ready for OTT"

woo hoo! Don't know if Timmy P is right or not, but this is awesome.

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Old
11-10-2009, 11:27 AM
  #428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
via Tim P's twitter

"@tpanotch Parent, Briere, JVR, Tollefesen all practicing ... And with regular lines and pairings. They all may be ready for OTT"

woo hoo! Don't know if Timmy P is right or not, but this is awesome.
Eh, good news for right now, but potentially bad news later in the case that a couple of them are being brought back before they're actually ready. But that said we all know the Flyers training staff would never let a player get back out there before they were healthy.

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11-10-2009, 11:32 AM
  #429
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
via Tim P's twitter

"@tpanotch Parent, Briere, JVR, Tollefesen all practicing ... And with regular lines and pairings. They all may be ready for OTT"

woo hoo! Don't know if Timmy P is right or not, but this is awesome.
That would be great. Briere I wouldn't rush back...same thing with JVR. Tollefsen = Syvret so I wasn't too bummed about that. Parent back soon please!

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11-10-2009, 12:38 PM
  #430
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JVR can play with his little finger wrapped up, and if he can get his hand into the glove. No big deal, he's no sissy.

OKT back on the ice already? Well guess I have to trust the docs

Hopefully Parent is in control of his groin problems. Is he married or something? He needs a woman who can give him some nice massage in that area

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Old
11-10-2009, 01:03 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
via Tim P's twitter

"@tpanotch Parent, Briere, JVR, Tollefesen all practicing ... And with regular lines and pairings. They all may be ready for OTT"

woo hoo! Don't know if Timmy P is right or not, but this is awesome.
Tim P is correct

The larger question marks are defensemen Ryan Parent (groin pull) and Ole-Kristian Tollefsen (concussion), both of whom also went through a long, hard practice.


Stevens said he was “optimistic” that JVR and Briere will both play.

“[Wednesday] will be the true test after they recover,” said coach John Stevens. “They skated pretty hard today. Danny looked good. Whether Tolly or Ryan, they might not be ready, but Danny had pretty good jump. It was certainly good to see everyone back in practice [going] full-out.”
http://www.csnphilly.com/pages/landi...987&feedID=704

Hartnell Richards Giroux
JVR Carter Briere
Carcillo Betts Lappy

Not sure about the rest. Powe/Pyro/Asham would be my guess?

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11-11-2009, 09:47 AM
  #432
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TSN was saying this AM that JVR will be ready but not Briere. I'd image Laliberte stay in on Thusday and no line changes from last game.
On D they mentioned nothing.

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Old
11-12-2009, 10:03 AM
  #433
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I really like the line combos the Flyers have set up for tonite that Meltzer listed on HockeyBuzz (forwards, that is. Can't be too happy with Syvret and Bartulis, though. Bartulis could be a solid NHL D-man, but Syvret, at least at this point, just isn't). When Gagne gets back it's going to be even better.

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Old
11-12-2009, 10:35 AM
  #434
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
That post is so full of BS, it's not even funny.

Havlat played on the second line of the Blackhawks last season with some pretty good offensive players, that line was there to score, not to play defense (what would be the job of line #3).
The Blackhawks were very balanced, but the Bolland, Havlat, Ladd line was the third line. He wasn't taking a regular shift with Toews, Kane, and Sharp.

http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2...s-chicagodec03

Quote:
No one made a more dramatic move than winger Martin Havlat, who skated with center Dave Bolland and Andrew Ladd in practice Tuesday in Bensenville in preparation for Wednesday night’s game against Anaheim at the United Center.
Andrew Ladd...whose previous career high had been...21 points...and Bolland, who was basically a rookie. So, yes, Havlat was on the third line. Better players than we have here? Sure, but it was the third line and Havlat helped it out a lot.

Quote:
You gotta maximize your players strenght and minimize their weakness by putting them on spots were they can succeed.
Putting Gagne with two grinders who barely can break the 30points blateau won't help him one bit.

Gagne is a sniper, he won't turn two of our grinders into 50point players, he will occasionally score one of a cycle or on a breakaway, but he won't produce as he can.
It's not about producing as "he can," it's about the team producing to its best abilities. Gagne can certainly score, but he's also one of the best defensive forwards in the league and can contribute a lot from the 3rd line (do we not recall the Primeau-Gagne line?). If it hurts Gagne, but helps the team, do it.

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Old
11-12-2009, 10:37 AM
  #435
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
I really like the line combos the Flyers have set up for tonite that Meltzer listed on HockeyBuzz (forwards, that is. Can't be too happy with Syvret and Bartulis, though. Bartulis could be a solid NHL D-man, but Syvret, at least at this point, just isn't). When Gagne gets back it's going to be even better.
Pronger better be drinking a lot of fluids right now.

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Old
11-12-2009, 10:51 AM
  #436
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The forward lines are perfect right now (for tonight's game I mean).

Parent needs to stay healthy though. Coburn-Timonen pairing makes me nervous.

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Old
11-12-2009, 10:55 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Pronger better be drinking a lot of fluids right now.
Bartulis and Syvret 3rd pairing will total about 3 mins tonight, haha.

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Old
11-12-2009, 10:57 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Bartulis and Syvret 3rd pairing will total about 3 mins tonight, haha.
I really hope we get a couple goal lead and they actually let them play some...would like to see Bartulis play a bit. Even then, I think it's important to let those guys eat a few minutes each period (just don't put them out there with the bottom 6).

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Old
11-12-2009, 11:17 AM
  #439
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Bartulis and Syvret 3rd pairing will total about 3 mins tonight, haha.
At least we're playing Ottawa and not the Sharks or the Caps (with Ovechkin).

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Old
11-15-2009, 11:58 AM
  #440
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just bored, trying to figure out ways to get Giroux back at center, he seems poor on richards wing

when the team is healthy..

JvR Carter Briere
Gagne Richards Powe/Asham/Pyro
Hartnell Giroux Powe/Asham/Pyro
Carcillo Betts iLap

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Old
11-17-2009, 01:23 AM
  #441
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2009-10 ACTUAL through 17 games
Top 6 forwards (plus the random injured guy): Carter, Richards, JVR, Hartnell, Briere, Giroux, Gagne
35-55-90 +18
---
Bottom 6 forwards (plus the healthy scratch): Powe, Asham, Lappy, Carcillo, Betts, Pyorala, Laliberte
15-9-24 +13
---
The 6 defensemen (plus the scratch/injured guy): Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Coburn, OKT, Syvret, Parent
10-44-54 +20
---
Team: 62 GF (3.65 per game); 43 GA (2.53 per game)
***
2009-10 PROJECTED (by current pace)
Top 6 (plus hurt guy): 169-265-434 +87
Bottom 6 (plus scratch): 72-43-115 +63
Defense (6 plus scratch): 48-212-260 +96
Team: 299 GF; 208 GA
***
2008-09 ACTUAL through 82 games
Top 6 forwards (plus the random injured guy): Carter, Richards, Gagne, Hartnell, Lupul, Knuble, Briere
203-217-420 +85
---
Bottom 6 forwards (plus the healthy scratch): Giroux, Asham, Carcillo, Powe, Nodl, Cote, Gratton
28-54-82 (-37)
---
The 6 defensemen (plus the scratch/injured guy): Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Alberts, Jones, Sbisa, Parent
20-109-129 +40
---
Team: 264 GF (3.22 per game); 238 GA (2.90 per game)

For all of the preseason concern about where secondary scoring would come from, it appears we have answers.
The bottom 7 forwards and the defense are halfway to matching last year's goals output. And the Emery guy behind them all is playing pretty well. I wonder when Boucher's next start is?

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Old
11-17-2009, 08:38 AM
  #442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy7 View Post
2009-10 ACTUAL through 17 games
Top 6 forwards (plus the random injured guy): Carter, Richards, JVR, Hartnell, Briere, Giroux, Gagne
35-55-90 +18
---
Bottom 6 forwards (plus the healthy scratch): Powe, Asham, Lappy, Carcillo, Betts, Pyorala, Laliberte
15-9-24 +13
---
The 6 defensemen (plus the scratch/injured guy): Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Coburn, OKT, Syvret, Parent
10-44-54 +20
---
Team: 62 GF (3.65 per game); 43 GA (2.53 per game)
***
2009-10 PROJECTED (by current pace)
Top 6 (plus hurt guy): 169-265-434 +87
Bottom 6 (plus scratch): 72-43-115 +63
Defense (6 plus scratch): 48-212-260 +96
Team: 299 GF; 208 GA
***
2008-09 ACTUAL through 82 games
Top 6 forwards (plus the random injured guy): Carter, Richards, Gagne, Hartnell, Lupul, Knuble, Briere
203-217-420 +85
---
Bottom 6 forwards (plus the healthy scratch): Giroux, Asham, Carcillo, Powe, Nodl, Cote, Gratton
28-54-82 (-37)
---
The 6 defensemen (plus the scratch/injured guy): Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Alberts, Jones, Sbisa, Parent
20-109-129 +40
---
Team: 264 GF (3.22 per game); 238 GA (2.90 per game)

For all of the preseason concern about where secondary scoring would come from, it appears we have answers.
The bottom 7 forwards and the defense are halfway to matching last year's goals output. And the Emery guy behind them all is playing pretty well. I wonder when Boucher's next start is?
Who is Boucher?


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Old
11-17-2009, 10:16 AM
  #443
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murphy7 View Post
2009-10 ACTUAL through 17 games
Top 6 forwards (plus the random injured guy): Carter, Richards, JVR, Hartnell, Briere, Giroux, Gagne
35-55-90 +18
---
Bottom 6 forwards (plus the healthy scratch): Powe, Asham, Lappy, Carcillo, Betts, Pyorala, Laliberte
15-9-24 +13
---
The 6 defensemen (plus the scratch/injured guy): Pronger, Timonen, Carle, Coburn, OKT, Syvret, Parent
10-44-54 +20
---
Team: 62 GF (3.65 per game); 43 GA (2.53 per game)
***
2009-10 PROJECTED (by current pace)
Top 6 (plus hurt guy): 169-265-434 +87
Bottom 6 (plus scratch): 72-43-115 +63
Defense (6 plus scratch): 48-212-260 +96
Team: 299 GF; 208 GA
***
2008-09 ACTUAL through 82 games
Top 6 forwards (plus the random injured guy): Carter, Richards, Gagne, Hartnell, Lupul, Knuble, Briere
203-217-420 +85
---
Bottom 6 forwards (plus the healthy scratch): Giroux, Asham, Carcillo, Powe, Nodl, Cote, Gratton
28-54-82 (-37)
---
The 6 defensemen (plus the scratch/injured guy): Timonen, Coburn, Carle, Alberts, Jones, Sbisa, Parent
20-109-129 +40
---
Team: 264 GF (3.22 per game); 238 GA (2.90 per game)

For all of the preseason concern about where secondary scoring would come from, it appears we have answers.
The bottom 7 forwards and the defense are halfway to matching last year's goals output. And the Emery guy behind them all is playing pretty well. I wonder when Boucher's next start is?
Very cool to take a look at that stuff...great post. On one hand, seeing how we're so far ahead of last year's pace for the bottom six and the defense...you get worried that there's no way they'll keep up this pace. On the other hand, I can definitely see this team being even better than they've already shown, so....sky's the limit I guess. But I suppose we can call the "sky" winding up with 299GF, and 208GA, cuz that would just be ****ing ridiculous.

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Old
11-26-2009, 07:58 PM
  #444
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Cote in, Laliberte out

cote was back in the lineup against the islanders which really bothered me especially when cote ruined a few cycles on the line of Cote/Ross/Nodl. Laliberte/Ross/Nodl were probaly the best line in the colorado game and they were cycling back and forth with great forechecking and then the flyers decide to go ahead and send laliberte back down. Cote is a goof get him out of there! We have carcillo, asham,lappy and even pronger to take care of the rough stuff!

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11-26-2009, 08:11 PM
  #445
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but cote is soo good in the locker room we cant lose a game with him in there.

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Old
11-26-2009, 08:58 PM
  #446
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and we lost the colorado game. laliberte was a minus 2 that game with 2 shots. cote was even with 3 shots in 3 minutes less TOI.

if your gonna spin pro laliberte/anti cote stance atleast come up with somehting more then " hes a goof" because he produced more in the last game then your boy did in his last game.

youll be tempted to use the arguement that#9 has had better showings, but remember cote hasnt this year( you cant compare other years either that arguement wont hold), lali is still an ahl player, and most likely has a contract that would pay him nhl level salarythat would go against the cap as soon as he hits a certain number of games.

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11-26-2009, 09:06 PM
  #447
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Lalilberte sucks anyway he's a floater. Not that Cote is better, Hopefully Asham is back soon.

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Old
11-26-2009, 09:11 PM
  #448
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Asham was back last night wasn't he?


Listen, he was given a contract. He's on the roster. If he's needed, he has to be used. Don't blame Cote because he sucks, blame the management for not having 23 guys on the roster who are up to the proper standards of an NHL player. It's not the first time under the Holmgren/Stevens era that there have been players on the roster that the team does everything in their power to keep off the ice, despite remaining on the roster.

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11-26-2009, 09:12 PM
  #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbryne View Post
but cote is soo good in the locker room we cant lose a game with him in there.
Then lets keep him in there, during the game!

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Old
11-26-2009, 09:13 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Asham was back last night wasn't he?
oh right, well when Briere is back COte will be gone

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