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Is anyone else surprised...

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Old
11-16-2009, 02:12 PM
  #26
IslesFanatic
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I would say yes, I am surprised. A quarter through the season with the lack of moves the Isles made and the younguns getting such ice time, I would have said people are crazy if they had the isles playing .500 hockey. There is a loooong way to go, but if this team can shore up the d and continue to score goals, they will continue to be in the hunt. However, I do not believe they will make the playoffs because come the new year the games will get tougher and I don't think the Isles have enough talent, especially on the blue line to continue to prosper. I hope I am wrong.

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11-16-2009, 03:48 PM
  #27
Chardo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Spot on.

Weakest part of Bailey's game currently is play against the boards. His game, along with that of Park's and Neilson's, diminishes significantly in physical areas of the ice.



I hate excuses.

If last year's team was not as bad as thier record indicates, then this year's is not as stupendous as their record indicates.

Reality is, you are PRECISELY what your record indicates. 82 games do not lie. That is not a small sample size. And every team has injuries. Good teams overcome them. Lousy teams do not.
Who said they are stupendous? Their record places them right in the middle of the league. An average team. This is progress. Average is better than last year. With the core players all kids just developing, the progression shows they are on the way to being better than average.

You must be an engineer or actuary or something like that. You focus on just numbers and don't consider the big picture. Your record is your record, for sure. However, to say there cannot be mitigating circumstances affecting that record is naive. Injuries most certainly have an effect on teams. When a large number of players are out, especially your best players, it is extremely hard to overcome. Especially if your remaining players are barely major league caliber. A team in that situation is expected to lose. For such a team to play competitively in defeat shows they are not as moribund as the record. It indicates that when the better players return to health, that can be the difference between losing and winning. Sometimes even good teams cannot overcome injuries. Doesn't mean they are suddenly bad.

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Old
11-16-2009, 03:54 PM
  #28
OlTimeHockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Spot on.

* Weakest part of Bailey's game currently is play against the boards. His game, along with that of Park's and Neilson's, diminishes significantly in physical areas of the ice.
I put him right on that wing and hope he learns to use the added mass he has, and to learn to play physical.....since we decided the past two seasons are for training.



Bailey plays hard on the wing, he gets his center position back. He doesn't.....he sits and works on it. (but what do I know, I don't have a circa 1986 rap video)

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Old
11-16-2009, 06:08 PM
  #29
Trottier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardo View Post
Who said they are stupendous?
Chardo, that was intended arcasm. Hence the:

Quote:
You must be an engineer or actuary or something like that. You focus on just numbers and don't consider the big picture.
Actually, I'm typically accused of the exact opposite, not paying enough attention to numbers. I focus on accepting reality. A loss is a loss, hyper-analysis notwithstanding.

Quote:
Your record is your record, for sure....Injuries most certainly have an effect on teams. When a large number of players are out, especially your best players, it is extremely hard to overcome. Especially if your remaining players are barely major league caliber. A team in that situation is expected to lose.
I've read this paragraph multiple times. I'm still trying to figure out where we disagree. (Although injuries are never an excuse for failure and good teams never use it as such.)

But as for this sentence:

Quote:
However, to say there cannot be mitigating circumstances affecting that record is naive.
A quick search on the term finds this: "Mitigating circumstances do not justify or excuse an offense but may reduce the severity of a charge."

...Which is the difference of our opinion. You and others seemingly see injuries and playing "just well enough to lose" a lot of games as indicative of a team not being that bad. I see a team that loses a lot of close games being precisely that...bad. Because bad teams lose a lot of close games...good teams win a lot of close games.

As for injuries: if the Isles lost Peter Forsberg for the final two rounds of the Cup playoffs (see: Avs, 2001), I'd be with you. Losing the services of the likes of Andy ("healthy scratch in Atlanta") Sutton and Freddy "frggin'" Meyer? Sorry, can't agree.

Look, I see this team in a playoff spot today and scratch my head. I do not see a playoff caliber team on the ice. But guess what? If they make it come next April, I'll admit the error of my way and not make excuses for their accomplishment, or try to lessen it in any way.

Seems to me that the same intellectual honesty should apply for those who try to find value in the worst team in the entire NHL last season. If the Isles weren't that bad, who was worse? Or are there no bad teams in the NHL? (Gary's bastardized point system/standings is designed to deceive us all to believe so.)


Last edited by Trottier: 11-16-2009 at 06:14 PM.
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Old
11-16-2009, 07:52 PM
  #30
bigtim1988
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the thing that surprises me is that they have been keeping up with some of the better teams in the NHL and really havent been blown out yet....except against maybe the habs but thats about it. i enjoy watching these games because i feel they have a chance to win in all of them. when the season first started i had a feeling they would be fairly decent considering they have 2 good goaltenders. if you think about it ''the rick'' hasn't really had a sufficient backup and i think that has hurt past islander teams. the future for the isles looks pretty good! i mean honestly this is the most hockey iv watched in a while. make the playoffs or not this is the most proud iv been as an islander fan in a while. good to see.

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Old
11-17-2009, 09:51 AM
  #31
Chardo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Chardo, that was intended arcasm. Hence the:



Actually, I'm typically accused of the exact opposite, not paying enough attention to numbers. I focus on accepting reality. A loss is a loss, hyper-analysis notwithstanding.



I've read this paragraph multiple times. I'm still trying to figure out where we disagree. (Although injuries are never an excuse for failure and good teams never use it as such.)

But as for this sentence:



A quick search on the term finds this: "Mitigating circumstances do not justify or excuse an offense but may reduce the severity of a charge."

...Which is the difference of our opinion. You and others seemingly see injuries and playing "just well enough to lose" a lot of games as indicative of a team not being that bad. I see a team that loses a lot of close games being precisely that...bad. Because bad teams lose a lot of close games...good teams win a lot of close games.

As for injuries: if the Isles lost Peter Forsberg for the final two rounds of the Cup playoffs (see: Avs, 2001), I'd be with you. Losing the services of the likes of Andy ("healthy scratch in Atlanta") Sutton and Freddy "frggin'" Meyer? Sorry, can't agree.

Look, I see this team in a playoff spot today and scratch my head. I do not see a playoff caliber team on the ice. But guess what? If they make it come next April, I'll admit the error of my way and not make excuses for their accomplishment, or try to lessen it in any way.

Seems to me that the same intellectual honesty should apply for those who try to find value in the worst team in the entire NHL last season. If the Isles weren't that bad, who was worse? Or are there no bad teams in the NHL? (Gary's bastardized point system/standings is designed to deceive us all to believe so.)
Excellent rebuttal. However, it wasn't just Sutton and Meyer, as you obviously know. Sillinger, Weight, Hunter, Martinek, Witt, and Comrie were all legit NHL players who missed significant time. And there was also that goalie. Can't remember the name.

Islanders were the worst team in the league. Can't argue that. The "mitigating circumstances...reduce the severity of the charge" in that while they were the worst, there was evidence that they would not be for very long. That is why their current standing is not a surprise to me. Which is the original question on this thread.

As for your head scratching, maybe we should finally be giving some credit to Gordon's system. Hockey analysts have said it has other teams peeing their pants trying to beat it. Sometimes an overall scheme done properly can be more successful than you might expect from the individuals working it.

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