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Old
11-15-2009, 11:28 AM
  #26
dawgbone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDO View Post
I don't know how Kang lost after landing that punch. That was massive, and yeah... Bisping doesn't have a chin. According to the idiot in the booth Bisping didn't even remember the 1st round... I'd be shocked if he isn't KO'd his next fight if the guy has any power at all.
Kang doesn't know how to GNP. He was in mount twice in the first round, and tried to sit up and punch with 2 hands. That won't work on a guy who has a strong core like Bisping does. As soon as Bisping got on top, he punched with one hand, controlled with the other.

This is 2 UFC fights Kang has lost because of his poor work in dominant position on the ground.

Quote:
Couture/Vera was just brutal. Couture is at the point where all he does is hold on and "score points."

They really need to change the way fights are judged...
Couture has always fought the same way... the only difference is that age has sapped some of his speed and power. The power in his dirty boxing is almost non-existant, and he just doesn't have the strength anymore to take guys down at will. All he's got now is clinch work against the cage, but both Big Nog and Vera showed that if you can keep range on him, he's got no answer (though Vera didn't do it enough).

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11-15-2009, 11:54 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Hemskyfanboy83 View Post
More Brain Damage than the NHL > Manny Pacquiao > UFC
now its fixed

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Old
11-15-2009, 12:27 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by PDO View Post
No... he's not.

If Mir isn't the best guy in the world on his back, he's the second best to Nog.

He didn't mind being there. It was a tactical mistake, because of Lesnar's size... but Mir could have kept that on the feet and he would have won, because he looked much better on his feet than Brock.
Lesnar doesn't have half the talent Mir does...

Brock's a physical freak with his size, strength and speed, but he's missing more than a lot between the ears.
Who's to say Brock wouldn't have shot for a takedown anyway? Fighters fight their style-Brock's bread and butter is takedown, GNP and thats all. Can't fault the guy for abusing that strategy.

Your response is almost as bad as Sherdog posters; should be "could've won", not would've..haha absolutes

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:17 PM
  #29
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What a complete joke the Natural vs the Truth was last night.

What I'd love to know is how the judges gave Couture points for holding on when holding on was the reason the ref split the two up like 6 times.

****ing jokes.

You're telling me that pinning someone for 5 minutes is more damaging than a devastating body shot that sent Couture down on the mat like a little girl?

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:26 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RedTide View Post
I dont watch a ton of MMA but I did see the Mir vs Lesnar fight and Mir had no business in that fight. He was DOMINATED from start to finish.

I wont diss Lesnar just because he isnt as technical, the only thing that matters is winning and losing. I love that Mir talked so much crap and then got his ass handed to him. So funny.

I dont think there are many guys who will be able to beat Lesnar, and when he does lose it will be by submissions, not sure many people could out punch him.
I don't think there are many top heavy weights who couldn't outbox Lesnar. If he tried standing with most of these guys he'd get knocked out, and quick. What makes Lesnar so dangerous is his freakish strength, speed and size. He's too big and strong on the ground for many heavy weights to handle.

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11-15-2009, 01:32 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
What a complete joke the Natural vs the Truth was last night.

What I'd love to know is how the judges gave Couture points for holding on when holding on was the reason the ref split the two up like 6 times.

****ing jokes.

You're telling me that pinning someone for 5 minutes is more damaging than a devastating body shot that sent Couture down on the mat like a little girl?
According to the NASC, judging is based on:

Quote:
E. Judging Criteria
1. Judges are required to determine the winner of a bout that goes to it's full time limit based upon the following criteria:
-Clean Strikes
-Effective Grappling
-Octagon Control
-Effective Aggressiveness

F. Clean Strikes
1. The fighter who is landing both effective and efficient clean strikes.
2. There are two ways of measuring strikes:
-the total number of clean strikes landed (more efficient) -the total number of heavy strikes landed (more effective)

G. The heavier striker who lands with efficiency, deserves more credit from the Judges than total number landed.
1. If the striking power between the fighters was equal, then the total number landed would be used as the criteria.
2. The total number of strikes landed, should be of sufficient quantity favoring a fighter, to earn a winning round.

H. Strikes thrown from the top position of the guard, are generally heavier and more effective than those thrown from the back.
1. Thus a Judge shall recognize that effective strikes thrown from the top guard position are of "higher quality", than thrown from the bottom.
2. The Judge shall recognize that this is not always the case.
However, the vast majority of fighters prefer the top guard position to strike from. This is a strong indication of positional dominance for striking.

I. Effective Grappling
1. The Judge shall recognize the value of both the clean takedown and active guard position.
2. The Judge shall recognize that a fighter who is able to cleanly takedown his opponent, is effectively grappling.
3. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter on his back in an active guard position, can effectively grapple, through execution of repeated threatening attempts at submission and reversal resulting in continuous defense from the top fighter.
4. A Judge shall recognize that a fighter who maneuvers from guard to mount is effectively grappling.
5. A Judge shall recognize that the guard position alone shall be scored neutral or even, if none of the preceding situations were met.(items 2-4) 6. A Judge shall recognize that if the fighters remain in guard the majority of a round with neither fighter having an edge in clean striking or effective grappling, (items 2-4), the fighter who scored the clean takedown deserves the round.
7. A clean reversal is equal to a clean takedown in effective grappling

J. Octagon Control
1. The fighter who is dictating the pace, place and position of the fight.
2. A striker who fends off a grappler's takedown attempt to remain standing and effectively strike is octagon control.
3. A grappler who can takedown an effective standing striker to ground fight is octagon control.
4. The fighter on the ground who creates submission, mount or clean striking opportunities

K. Effective Aggressiveness
1. This simply means who is moving forward and finding success.(scoring) 2. Throwing a strike moving backwards is not as effective as a strike thrown moving forward.
3. Throwing strikes and not landing is not effective aggressiveness.
4. Moving forward and getting struck is not effective aggressiveness.
5. Shooting takedowns and getting countered and fended off is not effective aggressiveness.

L. Criteria Evaluation
1. Each judge is to evaluate which fighter was most effective. Thus striking and grappling skills are top priority.
2. Evaluating the criteria requires the use of a sliding scale. Fights can remain standing or grounded.
Judges shall recognize that it isn't how long the fighters are standing or grounded, as to the scoring the fighters achieve ,while in those positions.
3. If 90% of the round is grounded one fighter on top, then:
-effective grappling is weighed first.
-clean striking is weighed next. If clean strikes scored in the round, the Judge shall factor it in. Clean Striking can outweigh Effective Grappling while the fighters are grounded.
-octagon control is next (pace, place & position)

4. The same rational holds true if 90% of the round were standing. Thus:
-clean striking would be weighed first (fighter most effective) -clean grappling second (any takedowns or effective clinching) -octagon control which fighter maintained better position? Which fighter created the situations that led to effective strikes?

5. If a round was 50% standing and 50% on the ground, then:
-clean striking and effective grappling are weighed more equally.
-octagon control would be factored next

6. In all three hypothetical situations, effective aggressiveness is factored in last. It is the criteria of least importance. Since the definition calls for moving forward and scoring, it is imperative for the Judges to look at the scoring first.

7. Thus for all Judges scoring UFC fights, the prioritized order of evaluating criteria is:
-clean strikes and effective grappling are weighed first.
-octagon control
-effective aggressiveness
Vera clearly won 1 round (the round with the body kick you mentioned)... but the other 2 were close. If you look at the criteria above, Couture clearly dictated where the fight went the whole time (Octagon control). I have no issues with the decision, but it does bring the criteria into question.

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Old
11-15-2009, 01:34 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
You're telling me that pinning someone for 5 minutes is more damaging than a devastating body shot that sent Couture down on the mat like a little girl?
What are you talking about? I don't think any of the judges ave the second round to Couture (the round with the body shot you mention). The fact is Vera did absolutely nothing in the first and not much in the third. You can argue Vera deserved the third, but it was hardly a clear win for him in that round. Fights aren't scored on one vicious kick and they shouldn't be. The only way you win a fight with one move is if you actually finish your opponent.

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Old
11-15-2009, 04:09 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smooth Skating View Post
What a complete joke the Natural vs the Truth was last night.

What I'd love to know is how the judges gave Couture points for holding on when holding on was the reason the ref split the two up like 6 times.

****ing jokes.

You're telling me that pinning someone for 5 minutes is more damaging than a devastating body shot that sent Couture down on the mat like a little girl?
Octagon control. I agree with you though. Couture should have lost. I cant stand Vera. So I dont feel bad that he lost. They should both be done with the octagon.

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Old
11-15-2009, 07:09 PM
  #34
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Frank Mir is the most overrated fighter on the planet.

I see people are quick to forget his TKO loss to a LHW and friggen pe de pano

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Old
11-15-2009, 08:16 PM
  #35
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Any rumours as to why Lesner is in the hospital. It sounds like it's pretty bad, but everyone is keeping tight-lipped about what exactly is wrong.

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11-16-2009, 11:47 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SeriousBusiness View Post
Any rumours as to why Lesner is in the hospital. It sounds like it's pretty bad, but everyone is keeping tight-lipped about what exactly is wrong.
I haven't read through this entire thread but...I heard it was Mono?

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11-16-2009, 01:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Backhand View Post
I haven't read through this entire thread but...I heard it was Mono?
He has Mono and some "mysterious" disease that they cannot divulge apparently. It's something "private" that cannot be discussed or so Dana says

edit: some intestinal disease or something [spleen?]

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Old
11-16-2009, 02:16 PM
  #38
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Regarding Vera/Couture, just my opinion but I would've scored it a draw because neither guy really deserved to win that snoozer...Vera had some good kicks to the body that clearly hurt Couture, but he's simply too passive a fighter, he lets the other guy dictate the terms of a fight far too often. As for Couture, he's simply done. He can lean you up against the cage, but he has nothing else at this stage. I don't blame him for not wanting to let go, but he's going to get hurt badly sooner or later.

With Lesnar laid up, suddenly the HW division's in flux yet again. Hopefully he has a full recovery from whatever he's got.

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Old
11-16-2009, 03:05 PM
  #39
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i don't understand.
why is everyone hating on brock still saying he has nothing but size and wrestling.
his bjj sucks. his boxing or judo sucks.

so?
he was supposed to fight Carwin... CARWIN.

the only thing he has is his 1-2 punch.
as lethal as it is, thats ALL he has.

and I *****ing love Carwin. every fight I watch, I just watch for his to load up that 1-2 punch. he jabs away, jabs away, as soon as a good jab lands. BAM, this right hand is in your grill knocking you out.

anyway.
all the brock hate, is dumb I think.

I agree that he got his chance pretty damn fast at the belt.
he should of climbed the ladder, like Carwin or anyone else.
but saying Brock sucks? thats just ignorance.
it doesn't matter that Mir is better at BJJ, he is like a child at the hands of Brock, who has less skill sure, but he's got the win in his pocket.

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11-16-2009, 03:09 PM
  #40
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Also wanted to say, Dos Santos should be a shot at the interm belt if they have that.

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Old
11-17-2009, 12:11 AM
  #41
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Some new news about Lesnar

Not sure how reliable TMZ is but they are quoting Dana here.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/16/brock-...-mono-ufc-wwe/

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Old
11-17-2009, 12:39 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frag2 View Post
He has Mono and some "mysterious" disease that they cannot divulge apparently. It's something "private" that cannot be discussed or so Dana says

edit: some intestinal disease or something [spleen?]
yah when I read that, and how they wanted to keep it private, may have to have surgery, not life threatening...any chance it could be colitis?

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Old
11-17-2009, 12:40 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Gunner8811 View Post
Not sure how reliable TMZ is but they are quoting Dana here.

http://www.tmz.com/2009/11/16/brock-...-mono-ufc-wwe/
What a shame, I hope that firstly he can have a normal life after this and that secondly he can one day return to the octagon.

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Old
11-17-2009, 12:43 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by OilWong View Post
yah when I read that, and how they wanted to keep it private, may have to have surgery, not life threatening...any chance it could be colitis?
Colitis, Crohns disease, Perforated Bowel?

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Old
11-17-2009, 08:53 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Colitis, Crohns disease, Perforated Bowel?
Prolapsed anus?

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Old
11-17-2009, 07:21 PM
  #46
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Dana Whites Twitter account this afternoon says:

"Leaving bismarck ND right now. Brock had minor surgery and is feeling better. Not 100% sure he is out of the woods but feeling better "

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Old
11-17-2009, 07:31 PM
  #47
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i hope he heals fully and is able to fight again, those bacterial infections are bad. good surgery went well

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