HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

#18: Flyers at Kings - November 18, 2009 - 10:30 PM (ET)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-18-2009, 10:58 AM
  #51
claude boivin lives
flat out spectacular
 
claude boivin lives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Carter View Post
He also only played 31 last year and still flopped.
Oh yeah, forgot about that...even better.

claude boivin lives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 10:59 AM
  #52
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Get Carter View Post
He also only played 31 last year and still flopped.
...cuz he was injured most of the year. They then worked him to the bone down the stretch.

Weekes played a 60 minute game just once after Feb 19th.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:04 AM
  #53
claude boivin lives
flat out spectacular
 
claude boivin lives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Which in no way proves that by playing him so much the Devils haven't cost themselves other playoff runs due to having a worn out goaltender. For a guy that is as good as he has been, his play has absolutely cratered at the end of the year with some regularity, especially recently.
And by the same token, playing him as much as they do in no way proves that the Devils have cost themselves anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I think the 70+ game philosophy for a starting goaltender is extremely faulty. I think it's dangerous in that it leads to having an ill-prepared backup should he be called upon, and it puts unnecessary shortsighted pressure on your primary starter.
Yeah, I disagree. If you've got a badass goalie, 65-70 games sounds very good to me.

claude boivin lives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:07 AM
  #54
claude boivin lives
flat out spectacular
 
claude boivin lives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...cuz he was injured most of the year. They then worked him to the bone down the stretch.

Weekes played a 60 minute game just once after Feb 19th.
Yes, I'm aware he was injured...gave him plenty of time to rest. He still only played 31 games, not a big deal for a dude who regularly plays 70+.

claude boivin lives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:08 AM
  #55
Opus
Boondoggle
 
Opus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,927
vCash: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Yeah, I disagree. If you've got a badass goalie, 65-70 games sounds very good to me.
I can respect that, but what happens when said badass goalie goes down with an injury?

At that point, your backup has only practiced...and you're (more than likely) ****ed.

Opus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:11 AM
  #56
claude boivin lives
flat out spectacular
 
claude boivin lives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opus View Post
I can respect that, but what happens when said badass goalie goes down with an injury?

At that point, your backup has only practiced...and you're (more than likely) ****ed.
Well, depending on how good your backup is in the first place, you're more than likely ****ed no matter how you slice it.

edit: perhaps I didn't state that clearly enough...what I'm saying is, if your starter goes down with a significant injury...and your backup goalie isn't a very good one...you're going to be rather ****ed whether that backup has played 10 games or 30.


Last edited by claude boivin lives: 11-18-2009 at 11:16 AM.
claude boivin lives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:15 AM
  #57
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
And by the same token, playing him as much as they do in no way proves that the Devils have cost themselves anything.
All fine and good, but I wasn't holding it up as proof of anything...I was holding up the fact that arguably the best goalie ever has been arguably the PRIMARY reason his team has been losing playoff series.

Just off the top of my head...he played poorly against us prior to the lockout, terrible against the Rangers (some very weak goals), and obviously there was a bit of a meltdown against Carolina last year.

I mean you go into the playoffs every year and we have goalies who do that workload...that are very, very good goalies completely crapping the bed. Could their be other explanations for it? Short sample...whatever else? Absolutely. However, I think exhaustion is a big contributing factor.

Quote:
Yeah, I disagree. If you've got a badass goalie, 65-70 games sounds very good to me.
From a greedy perspective, absolutely. However, I want a backup that is ready to play when necessary, and a goalie that isn't worn out from playing every single game of a marathon season. Goalie just too taxing a position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Yes, I'm aware he was injured...gave him plenty of time to rest. He still only played 31 games, not a big deal for a dude who regularly plays 70+.
Gave him plenty of time to get out of game shape, and then they threw him into the uptempo game of the end of the season and played him almost every single game.

A distance runner doesn't go out after a significant injury and run a race just because that's what they've always done.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:20 AM
  #58
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Well, depending on how good your backup is in the first place, you're more than likely ****ed no matter how you slice it.

edit: perhaps I didn't state that clearly enough...what I'm saying is, if your starter goes down with a significant injury...and your backup goalie isn't a very good one...you're going to be rather ****ed whether that backup has played 10 games or 30.
But you have to prepare as well as possible for that contingency. In the playoffs...you're effed. However, if you can patch it together for 10 games in the regular season you're fine and it's not a big deal. If you're backup is so out of game shape that you're looking at 2-8 or something, that's a big deal.

Maximizing production over an 82 game schedule does not necessarily mean going with no. 1 every time you can.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:23 AM
  #59
Kambo
 
Kambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Country: Ireland
Posts: 5,357
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Kambo
My goodness people. We don't have a goalie controversy and you guys are going out of your way to make one.

Kambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:25 AM
  #60
claude boivin lives
flat out spectacular
 
claude boivin lives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
I mean you go into the playoffs every year and we have goalies who do that workload...that are very, very good goalies completely crapping the bed.
Who are all these goalies you're referring to? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't know who you mean. Aside from Brodeur, the only thing that immediately comes to mind is Nabokov in '07-'08...but I think his numbers were still respectable in those play-offs, and besides, his whole team tends to crap the bed. Maybe it's happened with Kiprusoff too? I don't know who else, though.


edit: yeah, Kipper's numbers were baad last play-offs...but the couple before that they were pretty much in-line with the regular season. And the Flames may have been dominated altogether last year in the playoffs, I don't remember how things went for them, though, so perhaps not.

claude boivin lives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:29 AM
  #61
jd2210
Registered Non User
 
jd2210's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Great White North
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,573
vCash: 500
Here's to 2 in a row. Very doable with not so Dandy Randy on the blue line. My prediction- first shorty of the year on a Jones turnover.

jd2210 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:29 AM
  #62
CanadianFlyer88
Moderator
Knublin' PPs
 
CanadianFlyer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Van City
Posts: 16,049
vCash: 500
Great job, MSE!

Woo for 7:30 PST starts! Boo for a west coast road trip that avoids Vancouver.


Emery starting tonight is the right call... unless you want Boucher playing two games against Los Angeles/San Jose/Phoenix. He's not playing both games in the back-to-back, so he'll be missing one of the next two games.

The schedule is quite packed pretty much throughout the rest of the season; the large breaks the Flyers had early allowed Emery to play every game except for one. He won't burn out because he'll get plenty of rest from now on. Based on the schedule, I'd expect to see Boucher get one start out of every 4 games going forward and often either side of a back-to-back.

CanadianFlyer88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:30 AM
  #63
Kambo
 
Kambo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Pennsauken, NJ
Country: Ireland
Posts: 5,357
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Kambo
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd2210 View Post
Here's to 2 in a row. Very doable with not so Dandy Randy on the blue line. My prediction- first shorty of the year on a Jones turnover.
Second shorty of the year?

Kambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:36 AM
  #64
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 116,449
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Doesn't matter what Boucher is...he's the backup, and you need to have him ready. Additionally, you can't burn out your starter, because you're going to need him fresh throughout the year. If Emery gets banged up for a few games, our plan B right now has played one NHL game and one AHL game since camp, and he was injured at the end of camp.
Oh I completely agree. Boucher shouldn't be on the team if they don't want to use him, however, they're going to at some point now that we don't have any more 5-day breaks

__________________
Philadelphia's Real Alternative
(ynotradio.net)

Stop Feeding the Rumor-Monger

"I wonder if Norstrom has Forsberg's spleen mounted on his wall." - KINGS17

My 50 Favorite Albums of 2014 (sorry it's late)
GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:38 AM
  #65
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kambo View Post
My goodness people. We don't have a goalie controversy and you guys are going out of your way to make one.
I'm not sure saying the backup should be on pace to play ~20 games really constitutes a "goalie controversy" in the real sense of the word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Who are all these goalies you're referring to? Not saying you're wrong, I just don't know who you mean. Aside from Brodeur, the only thing that immediately comes to mind is Nabokov in '07-'08...but I think his numbers were still respectable in those play-offs, and besides, his whole team tends to crap the bed. Maybe it's happened with Kiprusoff too? I don't know who else, though.


edit: yeah, Kipper's numbers were baad last play-offs...but the couple before that they were pretty much in-line with the regular season. And the Flames may have been dominated altogether last year in the playoffs, I don't remember how things went for them, though, so perhaps not.
Luongo falling apart against Chicago last year springs immediately to mind (and, yes, that's another case of a guy that was hurt and then played rather hard)...also, it looks like the Canucks learned their lesson, because Raycroft is getting games and playing pretty well so far.

I don't have a laundry list, but it is something I've been paying attention to the last few years. And there are certainly examples of it working both ways...and having a fresh goalie doesn't guarantee he'll be playing well come playoff time. However, why even make it a factor?

And, BTW, a bad backup is even more reason to be very careful with your primary starter...not more reckless.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:42 AM
  #66
JCameron418
Registered User
 
JCameron418's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,448
vCash: 500
Lets go Flyers.

I hope Randy Jones gives us some easy goals.

JCameron418 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:49 AM
  #67
claude boivin lives
flat out spectacular
 
claude boivin lives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
However, why even make it a factor?
Well, as the coach, you use your judgment to determine how to handle the situation. That's a big part of it and we're not privy to it...where exactly your goalie is at mentally, and physically, throughout the season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
And, BTW, a bad backup is even more reason to be very careful with your primary starter...not more reckless.
Ha, but what your calling reckless I'm not necessarily calling reckless.

And anyway, back to the main point here, I'm very happy with Emery getting the call as often as he has up to this point. With as well as he's been playing, and the schedule being so conducive to it, why not play him as much as they have? Why fool with what you could call a hot streak...points in November are just as important as points in March. The whole thing has been handled well so far, and it's very clear that Boucher will be getting more starts in the near future.

claude boivin lives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:49 AM
  #68
flyersfan420
Registered User
 
flyersfan420's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,257
vCash: 500
lets' go flyers!! will be up late tonihgt!!!

flyersfan420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:50 AM
  #69
Teezax
Registered User
 
Teezax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,440
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
I knew this point would be brought up. It's nice that you think that, but there's no reason to believe it. Brodeur always plays 70+ games in the regular season, including the Stanley Cup winning years of '00 and '03.

And Brodeur is also on the back 9.
15 + years of 70+ games can certainly drain you out, I don't have a problem with Emery playing 70 games, I think he can take it.

Teezax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:50 AM
  #70
FlyHigh
Registered User
 
FlyHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,156
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyHigh Send a message via MSN to FlyHigh
I personally don't think Emery should be playing more than 55-60 games. He played 36 last year and 33 the year before, his biggest year was 06-07 when he played 58. It's stupid to double what he played the previous 2 seasons and expect him to maintain the same level of performance, the NHL season is the definition of the word 'grind.'

Of course, we're going to end up playing him 70 games and then he'll be totally gassed for the playoffs, I just try not to get too upset about it.

FlyHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:53 AM
  #71
Jester
Registered User
 
Jester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: St. Andrews
Country: Scotland
Posts: 34,075
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Well, as the coach, you use your judgment to determine how to handle the situation. That's a big part of it and we're not privy to it...where exactly your goalie is at mentally, and physically, throughout the season.
...and Stevens has pretty consistently fallen into overplaying one goalie or another the last couple years.

Quote:
Ha, but what your calling reckless I'm not necessarily calling reckless.

And anyway, back to the main point here, I'm very happy with Emery getting the call as often as he has up to this point. With as well as he's been playing, and the schedule being so conducive to it, why not play him as much as they have? Why fool with what you could call a hot streak...points in November are just as important as points in March. The whole thing has been handled well so far, and it's very clear that Boucher will be getting more starts in the near future.
What makes you think that...you think Boucher is going to get a more consistent run of starts if he goes out and posts a few terrible starts? I have zero confidence in that happening.

Jester is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 11:57 AM
  #72
claude boivin lives
flat out spectacular
 
claude boivin lives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyHigh View Post
Of course, we're going to end up playing him 70 games and then he'll be totally gassed for the playoffs, I just try not to get too upset about it.
Yes, of course...you've got it all figured out.

How much you wanna bet Emery doesn't play 70 games? How do we bet this damn vCash..what do I have 500? 500 vcash baby, on the line, that Emery plays less than 70 games. Actually, I'll RAISE the stakes, oh yeah, you heard me...I'm ****ing nuts with my vcash. I'll bet he plays less than 65 games. And this is assuming he's fully healthy.

Emery plays 63 games...book it.

claude boivin lives is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 12:00 PM
  #73
Valhoun*
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: West Chester, PA
Posts: 10,311
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Valhoun*
Quote:
Originally Posted by go kim johnsson 514 View Post
Oh I completely agree. Boucher shouldn't be on the team if they don't want to use him, however, they're going to at some point now that we don't have any more 5-day breaks
Don't worry, this is a Stevens coached team. They'll have at least four more 5 day breaks before the end of the season. Of course, there will be games scheduled during those breaks...

Valhoun* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 12:01 PM
  #74
FlyHigh
Registered User
 
FlyHigh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 28,156
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to FlyHigh Send a message via MSN to FlyHigh
Quote:
Originally Posted by claude boivin lives View Post
Yes, of course...you've got it all figured out.

How much you wanna bet Emery doesn't play 70 games? How do we bet this damn vCash..what do I have 500? 500 vcash baby, on the line, that Emery plays less than 70 games. Actually, I'll RAISE the stakes, oh yeah, you heard me...I'm ****ing nuts with my vcash. I'll bet he plays less than 65 games. And this is assuming he's fully healthy.

Emery plays 63 games...book it.
I'll definitely bank all my 500 vCash that he plays more than 65 games (assuming health of course), go big or go home! I'm sure Opus will make it happen.

It's hard for me to totally blame Stevens on this one however. I like Booch, but the guy has shown nothing to indicate he would be a competent backup, there were loads of other options on the market, Homer just went bat**** crazy and signed Boucher, ******** decision.

In a tight division and conference race, I understand that it's hard for a coach to say, "I need to start my well-below average backup for 20-25 games", but that's what Stevens is going to have to do. I just don't think he will.

FlyHigh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-18-2009, 12:04 PM
  #75
claude boivin lives
flat out spectacular
 
claude boivin lives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 2,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
...and Stevens has pretty consistently fallen into overplaying one goalie or another the last couple years.
I don't agree with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
What makes you think that...you think Boucher is going to get a more consistent run of starts if he goes out and posts a few terrible starts?
Well, you see, the thing is, I try to have some faith in the bright minds of some of my hfboards brethren. And there's this guy, Jester I think his name was...and I was complaining big time about this team not keeping Niitty...and he was telling me how much more faith he had in Boucher than Niitty. So, you see, sometimes I try and put some faith in stuff like that and hope it might have been a somewhat reasonable thing to say. It is for reasons such as that one that I'd like to think Boucher will not go out and post a few terrible starts.

claude boivin lives is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:46 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.