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Old
11-19-2009, 11:23 AM
  #51
nyr2k2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
It's also why these sports leagues would be fools to not spend lots of money to figure out a way to either eliminate or greatly reduce the risk of these kinds of injuries. Either through rules or better head equipment, preferably both. The amount of problems that concussions can cause too a person short and long term are far to great to pass off. It's sad because so many careers have been ended by them.
I agree 100%. Unfortunately, we know how slow the league can be to adopt measures to protect players, especially things that "threaten the spirit" of the game (or whatever BS excuse the Old Guard would give).

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Old
11-19-2009, 11:41 AM
  #52
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I'd also like to see mouth guards like the Maher Mouth Guard implemented for use throughout the league. Apparently some teams or at least players are starting to use it and even more so in the AHL.

Also the Cascade Messier M11 helmet looks promising and apparently at the GM meeting recently, GMs seemed to have a positive reaction to it. Also there are a few players (I think 8) in the NHL using it now as well.

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11-19-2009, 11:45 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
I'd also like to see mouth guards like the Maher Mouth Guard implemented for use throughout the league. Apparently some teams or at least players are starting to use it and even more so in the AHL.

Also the Cascade Messier M11 helmet looks promising and apparently at the GM meeting recently, GMs seemed to have a positive reaction to it. Also there are a few players (I think 8) in the NHL using it now as well.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/ourg...uth-guard.html

i dont wear a mouthguard...i wear a full cage and that protects my teef...the mouthguard helping with concussions is a total fallacy. its only useful if you wear a visor and are concerned with teeth injuries.

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11-19-2009, 11:50 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/ourg...uth-guard.html

i dont wear a mouthguard...i wear a full cage and that protects my teef...the mouthguard helping with concussions is a total fallacy. its only useful if you wear a visor and are concerned with teeth injuries.
I wouldn't say that from what's written there that it's a myth (especially based on only one doctor's opinion). They're saying that there is no study which proves that it reduces concussions.

Others say that while mouth guards don't help with blows to the head (obviously), they do help prevent concussions when a player receives a blow to the jaw. This can be attested to by professional players who have experience concussions but then once they started wearing mouth protection, the amounts of concussions ceased or decreased.

In addition, use of a non-dentist fitted mouth guard is almost useless. The ones sold in sports stores are useless.

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11-19-2009, 11:56 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
I wouldn't say that from what's written there that it's a myth (especially based on only one doctor's opinion). They're saying that there is no study which proves that it reduces concussions.

Others say that while mouth guards don't help with blows to the head (obviously), they do help prevent concussions when a player receives a blow to the jaw. This can be attested to by professional players who have experience concussions but then once they started wearing mouth protection, the amounts of concussions ceased or decreased.
im still not sure i buy it, but i think mouthguards kinda suck...thats just me though anyway, i have a full face cage so i dont really have to worry about blows to the jaw or anything, and i play in non check leagues so head shots would be me being tripped and hitting my head which doesnt happen all that much anyway...for the NHL though, meh, its not an important issue for me...to me the biggest thing is to get the headshots out of the game, not necessarily mess with the equipment...blindside hits, hits to the head, etc...i think they need to stop...i think it shows a genuine disrespect to the game, and what its all about. i think all hits to the head should be 5 minute majors and reviewable for stiff suspensions.

i dont want to remove hitting, im a HUGE fan of that aspect of the game, but players leaping to make hits, etc need to be gone....i still think the Richards play was dirty.

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11-19-2009, 11:57 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
It's also why these sports leagues would be fools to not spend lots of money to figure out a way to either eliminate or greatly reduce the risk of these kinds of injuries. Either through rules or better head equipment, preferably both. The amount of problems that concussions can cause to a person short and long term are far too great to pass off. It's sad because so many careers have been ended by them.
Elimination is impossible, unless there is no hitting, no falling, and no ice.

I actually wonder what causes the most concussions. The hit to the head, or the head hitting the ice. I have a feeling that the head slamming into the ice might actually cause more concussions.

As long as there is hitting involved in hockey there will be hits to the head. Increasing the padding in the helmets would help, but there really isn't a way.

And more rules would be just ridiculous. There would be more penalties called on clean hits if they caused a big enough crunch. Just look at the NFL. How many BS calls for roughing the passer, or illegal hits are called, which in fact are not illegal, or not actually headshots. Bad calls change the outcomes of the games.

The way that should be done, is not through penalties, but stricter suspensions. But if a player is deemed to have a hit to somebodies head, would be an automatic 10 game suspension for first time offender, 41 games for second time. 82 games for third. out of league for 4th.

I think players wouldn't jump, when they hit, nor raise elbows as much either than.

But this could lead to another problem (which is already a problem). Players heights. We have players as small as 5'8", and as large as 6'9". That's a huge frikkin disparity. If Chara wants to hit say a Dawes, almost all his hits on a player that small will be around Dawes' head. It's not Chara's fault, but it is a problem that he is a foot taller. If players were all between say 5'8" and 6'1" there probably would be less hits to the head as well b/c they are all around the same height. Therefore hitting with a shoulder wouldn't automatically hit somebody in the head, but rather in the shoulder/chest area.

All in all, its a very touchy issue, and I don't think there is a right answer at all.

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11-19-2009, 12:10 PM
  #57
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http://twitter.com/stevezipay

Zipay is saying Drury is not on IR, just Dubinsky.

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Old
11-19-2009, 12:27 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Elimination is impossible, unless there is no hitting, no falling, and no ice.

I actually wonder what causes the most concussions. The hit to the head, or the head hitting the ice. I have a feeling that the head slamming into the ice might actually cause more concussions.

As long as there is hitting involved in hockey there will be hits to the head. Increasing the padding in the helmets would help, but there really isn't a way.

And more rules would be just ridiculous.
There would be more penalties called on clean hits if they caused a big enough crunch. Just look at the NFL. How many BS calls for roughing the passer, or illegal hits are called, which in fact are not illegal, or not actually headshots. Bad calls change the outcomes of the games.

The way that should be done, is not through penalties, but stricter suspensions. But if a player is deemed to have a hit to somebodies head, would be an automatic 10 game suspension for first time offender, 41 games for second time. 82 games for third. out of league for 4th.

I think players wouldn't jump, when they hit, nor raise elbows as much either than.

But this could lead to another problem (which is already a problem). Players heights. We have players as small as 5'8", and as large as 6'9". That's a huge frikkin disparity. If Chara wants to hit say a Dawes, almost all his hits on a player that small will be around Dawes' head. It's not Chara's fault, but it is a problem that he is a foot taller. If players were all between say 5'8" and 6'1" there probably would be less hits to the head as well b/c they are all around the same height. Therefore hitting with a shoulder wouldn't automatically hit somebody in the head, but rather in the shoulder/chest area.

All in all, its a very touchy issue, and I don't think there is a right answer at all.
to the first part....i'd argue that its the unexpected hit to the head that causes it....either in that the actual hit causes the concussion or the player is in a daze after the blind head shot and is unable to soften the blow from the ice....either way it is a direct result of the head shot

to the second part, i could not disagree more. Hits to the head are completely avoidable, regardless of player size...there's more ways to hit than using your shoulder or elbow as cruise missile locked on your opponents helmet

Also, as for your comment on rules, the important part about implementing new rules is the integrity of the refs and the calls they make. I personally feel that penalty calling in the NFL (and NHL to a lesser extend) is horrid. If a new rule about head shots was to be added than this issue would have to be addressed. As would the issue of diving which is already out of control

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11-19-2009, 12:29 PM
  #59
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thank god

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11-19-2009, 01:12 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
to the first part....i'd argue that its the unexpected hit to the head that causes it....either in that the actual hit causes the concussion or the player is in a daze after the blind head shot and is unable to soften the blow from the ice....either way it is a direct result of the head shot
a big hit can make a player hit his head on the ice and get concussed. As soon as there is a concussion people keep on saying it was a headshot. A good clean bodycheck can also lead to concussions if a player hits his head on the ice, boards, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
to the second part, i could not disagree more. Hits to the head are completely avoidable, regardless of player size...there's more ways to hit than using your shoulder or elbow as cruise missile locked on your opponents helmet
I dont think they are completely avoidable sometimes. many times you see players move, or duck before getting hit. Players themselves leave themselves in very exposed positions alot. The game is so fast that sometimes if a player turns the wrong way, or ducks it will result in a headshot. headshots are not always done on purpose, as the media is reporting way to much. I think people are really being brainwashed to believe that every head shot is intentional. They arent.

Look at some boarding calls (or non calls), in many instances players turn at the last second putting them in that position. I would argue that sometimes they do it on purpose to try to draw a penalty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
Also, as for your comment on rules, the important part about implementing new rules is the integrity of the refs and the calls they make. I personally feel that penalty calling in the NFL (and NHL to a lesser extend) is horrid. If a new rule about head shots was to be added than this issue would have to be addressed. As would the issue of diving which is already out of control
Hockey happens so fast, that what will probably happen (basing this on the NFL), is that refs will just start calling any big hit where a player is injured (or shaken up), a headshot without actually being sure.

the only way I would support a headshot rule, is if everysingle time a headshot penalty is called there is a video review to make sure it is in fact an actual headshot, and that it appears to be the defenders fault... ie not the person getting hit turning the last second and thereby inducing a headshot. And if the player is found not guilty than time will be put back on the clock and play will resume at the nearest faceoff circle at the spot of the incident.

More penalties, will create more games being decided by refs, who may or may not have, seen the entire play but saw a result.

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11-19-2009, 01:22 PM
  #61
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For people who are interested in head injuries

this is worth reading:

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

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11-19-2009, 01:24 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
a big hit can make a player hit his head on the ice and get concussed. As soon as there is a concussion people keep on saying it was a headshot. A good clean bodycheck can also lead to concussions if a player hits his head on the ice, boards, etc.



I dont think they are completely avoidable sometimes. many times you see players move, or duck before getting hit. Players themselves leave themselves in very exposed positions alot. The game is so fast that sometimes if a player turns the wrong way, or ducks it will result in a headshot. headshots are not always done on purpose, as the media is reporting way to much. I think people are really being brainwashed to believe that every head shot is intentional. They arent.

Look at some boarding calls (or non calls), in many instances players turn at the last second putting them in that position. I would argue that sometimes they do it on purpose to try to draw a penalty.



Hockey happens so fast, that what will probably happen (basing this on the NFL), is that refs will just start calling any big hit where a player is injured (or shaken up), a headshot without actually being sure.

the only way I would support a headshot rule, is if everysingle time a headshot penalty is called there is a video review to make sure it is in fact an actual headshot, and that it appears to be the defenders fault... ie not the person getting hit turning the last second and thereby inducing a headshot. And if the player is found not guilty than time will be put back on the clock and play will resume at the nearest faceoff circle at the spot of the incident.

More penalties, will create more games being decided by refs, who may or may not have, seen the entire play but saw a result.
Hits to the head are legal. Why would one want to hit the opponent to the head? The answer is simple: to intimidate him and/or his teammates. To break their will. You cannot be serious in it without occasional serious injury. Therefore hits in the head have always an intent to injure the opponent (indirect intention). As such they should be absolutely out.

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11-19-2009, 01:25 PM
  #63
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Great article, I posted it in the general sports forum, but it definitely applies here.

Head injuries are no joke, the games are changing, so should the rules/practices.

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11-19-2009, 01:32 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Hits to the head are legal. Why would one want to hit the opponent to the head? The answer is simple: to intimidate him and/or his teammates. To break their will. You cannot be serious in it without occasional serious injury. Therefore hits in the head have always an intent to injure the opponent (indirect intention). As such they should be absolutely out.
bs.... every hit has the intent to injure. and not every hit to the head is intentional. Just b/c a player is the victim doesn't mean he should automatically exonorated, if in fact it was his fault that he got hit in the head by turning or moving the last second. Accidents do happen, and if it was an accident there should be no punishment.

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11-19-2009, 01:36 PM
  #65
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Post concussion syndrome is nothing to F with. Wouldn't wish it on anyone. Hope he's ok.

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11-19-2009, 01:47 PM
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Rags225- I am born in 81'. When I started following this league really closely the mega stars where/became Forsberg, Kariya and Lindros

They were like the AO's, Crosbys and Malkins of the league at that time.

After like 6-7 years 2 of 3 were crippled by concussions and the 3rd by just about any injury you can name.

I can tell you, this league would be pretty boring without Crosby, Malkin and AO. Thats what we saw in the NHL around 2003. No stars.

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11-19-2009, 03:22 PM
  #67
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what? why was my posts deleted?

and since it was... Ola i will answer you very fast.

the early 2000's had stars in the NHL... but the clutch and grab hockey held them back and not concussions.

Also there were some really bad drafts in the late 1990's that contributed to poor play. plus expansion that brought in more players that weren't necessarrily NHLers.

Concussion's had very little impact on having superstars or not.

And very nice how you don't mention Iginla, Sakic, Bure who were megastars but also didn't have concussion problems. Most players in the NHL never have a concussion problem.

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11-19-2009, 03:23 PM
  #68
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I also heard Brian Westbrook on the Eagles went there as well.
Brian. Bryant. If the guy who plays running back for the Eagles has one more concussion,he won't know his name. He suffered two concussions in four weeks.

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11-19-2009, 03:33 PM
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Steve Zipay and Andrew Gross have such a cavalier attitude about concussions. They wrote No Drury on the ice today on twitter. Drury has to go through a process before he can even begin to skate again. Torts said Drury has had a couple of good days. What does that mean? Torts said Drury is visiting a doctor today. A concussion specialist? Which one? Don't these guys ask follow up questions?

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11-19-2009, 06:19 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
bs.... every hit has the intent to injure. and not every hit to the head is intentional. Just b/c a player is the victim doesn't mean he should automatically exonorated, if in fact it was his fault that he got hit in the head by turning or moving the last second. Accidents do happen, and if it was an accident there should be no punishment.
Um, no. I've never once tried to injure someone when throwing a hit. Knock the wind out of them? Make them sore the next day? Make him think twice about skating through the crease? Absolutely. But injure? Absolutely not. If you're running around throwing hits trying to injure people, then you have no respect for the game or for the opposition. Trying to hurt the opposition is not and should never be a part of the game. I'm really, really hoping that was just a poorly worded statement dude.

And how is "it was an accident" an excuse for hurting someone? If I'm doubling the speed limit in the rain at 4AM and lose control of my car and kill someone, you think a judge and jury will give one **** that it was an accident? The same goes for hockey. If you're Launching yourself like a missile across the ice to deck someone, and you happen to catch him in the face and concuss him, I'm sorry, but you're responsible for that. There are definitely instances where players are accidentally hurt on otherwise clean hits, I don't disagree--but there are also a ton of injuries that result from one player throwing an out of control check, whether the actual impact was accidental or not. You have to control yourself when you're on the ice, and if you can't and you hurt someone, you need to be punished.

By your logic, high sticking shouldn't be a penalty at all, since it's accidental...right? Of course not. Because you're responsible for controlling your stick when you're on the ice. You're not any less responsible for controlling your body when attempting a hit. I'd argue you're MORE responsible...

One of the reasons head shots have become a problem in the game nowadays is because the modern hockey player seems to play with less respect for the opponent now than at any other time. I've heard this from players personally and read it many times over. If you don't have any respect for your fellow player, you're much less likely to play under control, and much more likely to put yourself in situations where you're "accidentally" hurting people.


Last edited by nyr2k2: 11-19-2009 at 06:28 PM.
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Old
11-19-2009, 07:55 PM
  #71
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Quote:
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OMG!!!! Redden and Rozi need to go onto LTIR so we can get Brian Campbell!!!!!!
with Campbell's price tag, it wouldn't be proactive at all. No thanks.

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11-19-2009, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t3hg00se View Post
http://twitter.com/stevezipay

Zipay is saying Drury is not on IR, just Dubinsky.
When did the Rangers become the MEts? Is he on the the IR or not? IS this organization hiding a injury or hiding the fact he is getting better? The team should come and set the record straight not a reporter . When did the Rangers become shaddy ?

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11-19-2009, 08:19 PM
  #73
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When did the Rangers become the MEts? Is he on the the IR or not? IS this organization hiding a injury or hiding the fact he is getting better? The team should come and set the record straight not a reporter . When did the Rangers become shaddy ?
When Tortorella took over.

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11-19-2009, 09:11 PM
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Ding Ding Ding we have a winner lol

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11-20-2009, 01:37 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 View Post
I'd also like to see mouth guards like the Maher Mouth Guard implemented for use throughout the league. Apparently some teams or at least players are starting to use it and even more so in the AHL.

Also the Cascade Messier M11 helmet looks promising and apparently at the GM meeting recently, GMs seemed to have a positive reaction to it. Also there are a few players (I think 8) in the NHL using it now as well.
if they want that thing to sell they need to improve how it looks. It's seriously one of the ugliest helmet's I've ever seen (almost as bad as the Jofa lids that Gretzky and Kurri used to wear), and as silly as it sounds the look of a helmet factors in pretty heavily with hockey players, no matter what level we're talking about

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