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The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

Who is at fault?

View Poll Results: Who is at fault?
Owners and GM's 18 45.00%
Players 22 55.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-13-2004, 01:05 PM
  #1
TOGLIATTI
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Who is at fault?

Who is most at fault for the current situation?

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12-13-2004, 01:06 PM
  #2
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The fans.

If they were to say this situation is unacceptable and we're voting with our money, the two sides would be under a lot more pressure to get a deal done.

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12-13-2004, 01:09 PM
  #3
TOGLIATTI
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I think the owners. They OWN the teams. They hire the GM's who sign the players. One should be responsible and stay within a budget, a thing that was most definently not done.

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12-13-2004, 01:10 PM
  #4
All-Star
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The owners for signing the players to unaffordable contracts in the first place. If they could have controlled themselves, we wouldn't be where we are today.

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12-13-2004, 01:12 PM
  #5
gerbilanium
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Obvious it's the owners. But name me one business in the world where the employees haven't been forced to pay for management's mistakes.

Example -

Air Canada, evil retard Robert Milton gets millions in bonuses and the pilots and stewardesses lose jobs and get paycuts.

Nortel - Greedy managers. Lost jobs.

Enron - Same thing

Capitalism works but it sucks.

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Old
12-13-2004, 01:13 PM
  #6
Riddarn
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The owners - for backing down in '94 and putting themselves in the claws of the agents and a few stupid GM's. They should have fixed the system before it got out of hand.

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12-13-2004, 01:14 PM
  #7
Seachd
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The players, the owners, the GMs, who cares? It doesn't solve the problems.

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12-13-2004, 01:15 PM
  #8
Trottier
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Neither side is "at fault." Respectfully, that is a somewhat naive question. This is a very basic, common collective bargaining agreement process between management which wishes to curtail spending and optimize profits, and a union seeking to protect its members' earning power.

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12-13-2004, 01:15 PM
  #9
Kaiped Krusader
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The owners are at fault for the current situation.

However, the players need to accept that they've been living in the catbird seat with the prior CBA and need to make a lot more concessions than the owners do in hammering out a new deal if the league is to survive. They basically acknowledged this with their offer last week.

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12-13-2004, 01:16 PM
  #10
gerbilanium
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Can we get a poll to see if the pro-NHLPA people are fans of teams in 'the big six'. I bet there is a bit of a correlation there. Hell, I would be pro-PA too.

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12-13-2004, 01:17 PM
  #11
Riddarn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
The players, the owners, the GMs, who cares? It doesn't solve the problems.
You're quite right. The damage is done.

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12-13-2004, 01:22 PM
  #12
porknbeans
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The Pro-NHLPA people seem to be

Ottawa Senators fans (me, BRG, thinkwild)
Vancouver Canucks fans (Tom_Benjamin, vanlady, dementedreality)
Some more anti-cap than pro-player (Trottier, John Flyers Fan)

Then theres the poor souls who dont know a logical argument if it came up and slapped em in the face ...mostly all the pro-owners.

So 3 Sens, 3 Canucks 1 Isles and 1 Flyers...

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12-13-2004, 01:31 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
The Pro-NHLPA people seem to be

Ottawa Senators fans (me, BRG, thinkwild)
Vancouver Canucks fans (Tom_Benjamin, vanlady, dementedreality)
Some more anti-cap than pro-player (Trottier, John Flyers Fan)

Then theres the poor souls who dont know a logical argument if it came up and slapped em in the face ...mostly all the pro-owners.

So 3 Sens, 3 Canucks 1 Isles and 1 Flyers...
Can't resist the temptation to spin?

What happened to Shakes (Leafs), Flyline4life, (Rangers), Hockeytown9321 (Wings) and some others I've left out?

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12-13-2004, 01:31 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbilanium
Obvious it's the owners. But name me one business in the world where the employees haven't been forced to pay for management's mistakes.

Example -

Air Canada, evil retard Robert Milton gets millions in bonuses and the pilots and stewardesses lose jobs and get paycuts.

Nortel - Greedy managers. Lost jobs.

Enron - Same thing

Capitalism works but it sucks.
Except that in the Enron and Nortel cases, those executives got fired. And many are facing legal troubles as well.

In the NHL, how many executives have been fired for their "mistakes"?

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12-13-2004, 01:33 PM
  #15
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Where's the option for "both"? Neither party are innocent. Both need to wake up and address the disease before it kills the patient.

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Old
12-13-2004, 01:36 PM
  #16
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A fundementally flawed CBA. Thank goodness the NHL is working on fixing the system.

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12-13-2004, 01:43 PM
  #17
Seachd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaredsensfan
The Pro-NHLPA people seem to be

Ottawa Senators fans (me, BRG, thinkwild)
Vancouver Canucks fans (Tom_Benjamin, vanlady, dementedreality)
Some more anti-cap than pro-player (Trottier, John Flyers Fan)

Then theres the poor souls who dont know a logical argument if it came up and slapped em in the face ...mostly all the pro-owners.

So 3 Sens, 3 Canucks 1 Isles and 1 Flyers...
What in the name of the Holy Håkan Loob does that have to do with anything?

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12-13-2004, 01:44 PM
  #18
Kaiped Krusader
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRedGold
Except that in the Enron and Nortel cases, those executives got fired. And many are facing legal troubles as well.

In the NHL, how many executives have been fired for their "mistakes"?
Yup, and which NHL player jobs have been eliminated so that owners and GMs could pad their pockets?

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Old
12-13-2004, 01:55 PM
  #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seachd
What in the name of the Holy Håkan Loob does that have to do with anything?
scaredsensfan is able to contruct his arguments intelligently, calling others "retards" and saying they're 13 y/o because they don't agree with him. You just can't argue with that kind of logic.

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Old
12-13-2004, 03:03 PM
  #20
Trottier
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Iconoclast
Where's the option for "both"? Neither party are innocent. Both need to wake up and address the disease before it kills the patient.
Guilty of what? Looking out for their own best business interests?

Not putting "the fans' interest" first?

They (owners, players) are in business. We simply pay for the entertainment. And, the hyperbole of the media, which is swallowed hook, line and sinker by some fans notwithstanding, eventually, the NHL will be back in business.

Sorry, "kill the patient," "the league is finished", etc. is such melodrama. This is a CBA negotiation, nothing more or less.

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12-13-2004, 03:08 PM
  #21
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The players.

The owners have admitted to this system not working and really are serious about fixing it so it does work. NHLPA is worried about getting public opinion on their side with the big rollback in salary. But anyone who looks at the proposal can see it doesn't do anything long term. The salaries will be right back where they are now.
Owners know they caved in 94 and they aren't doing it now. The players system doesn't work. They know something has to be in place so that it gets better, not worse like it would with the players plan.

I'd rather wait and get the system fixed than to see this happen again in a few years.

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Old
12-13-2004, 03:16 PM
  #22
Crosbyfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HungryforHockey25
The players.

The owners have admitted to this system not working and really are serious about fixing it so it does work. .
The owners have admitted to this system not working for them and really are serious about fixing it so it does work for them.

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Old
12-13-2004, 04:07 PM
  #23
jcpenny
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The System is the problem. It didnt prevent anything.

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