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Sweden at the 2010 Olympics

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Old
11-22-2009, 12:50 AM
  #51
Systemfel
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Just watched the Ducks-Sharks game. Doug Murray has to be on the Swedish roster come February. We're gonna need his size and toughness. It's NHL-sized rinks, BÅG is not going to have an excuse to leave him off.

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11-22-2009, 07:55 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berglund1313 View Post
Ericksson is a 30 goal scorer in NHL and how manny of them do we have i bet if he play with for example Affe or forsberg that will be a hell of a good line or you can put him with the sedins and still have a dominent line. Davidsson will strugle + he is way softer then Loui im a HV fan but i cant see why Davidson would be a good fit on a smal rink wher all the other allready have proven they can play. This team of sweden is manny 2way players so on a 4th line he wont fit anyway .
I think Davidsson would be a perfect fit on the 4th line with PJ and Påhlson on each of his sides!

I know Arto Blomsten agrees with me at least because on his Olympic Roster his 4th line was PJ-JD-Påhlsson...

We need good traditional swedish centers in order to play "swedish" hockey, and we will never be able to beat a Canada playing any other way.

We only, IMHO, have 2 or 3 centers like that. Forsberg, against the best of the best, can get exposed if put at center. Bäckström? Nah, maybe if he had AO but he won't... I rather have him on the wing. Påhlsson have also defenitely lost a step.

Whats the alternatives at center? We don't have many. Davidsson would definitely help the dinosaurs we have with his speed.

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11-22-2009, 08:01 AM
  #53
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If Loui Eriksson is so good -- why didn't he show it in the WCH's last season? He was very avg in that tournament, he was defenitely outplayed by Weinhandl for example.

How many goals did Patrik Berglund score last season? He was the worst forward who have played in the WCH's for Sweden in a long time.

The best players play in the NHL. I agree there. There is a very good reason for why Davidsson, Torgny Mårtensson and co don't play in the NHL. They aren't good enough. Mårtensson is ridiculously bad without the puck. Guys like Richard Wallin is a joke all over the board. Like at least a Joel Lundqvist is good at something, Wallin don't have a single strength, and he is soft and lazy.

But we are not picking out the best players here, we are picking out the best team we can. From my point of view that team lacks speed, ability to carry the puck and ability to cover a lot of ice -- at center ice. Davidsson have that. He have good attitude. He is experienced. He have played in NA.

And we could put him in a enviornment that would fit him really well in the Olympics.

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11-22-2009, 03:29 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I know Arto Blomsten agrees with me at least because on his Olympic Roster his 4th line was PJ-JD-Påhlsson...
Can you post or may be you have a link to Blomsten's lineup?

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11-22-2009, 03:58 PM
  #55
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I suggested Johan Davidsson to be the fourth center back in 2006 (you can look it up I believe) but was laughed at quite a bit


http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=108

there we go

IMO Davidsson isn't a bit better than he was 3 years ago.


Last edited by mattihp: 11-23-2009 at 07:30 AM.
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Old
11-22-2009, 09:26 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
If Loui Eriksson is so good -- why didn't he show it in the WCH's last season? He was very avg in that tournament, he was defenitely outplayed by Weinhandl for example.

How many goals did Patrik Berglund score last season? He was the worst forward who have played in the WCH's for Sweden in a long time.

The best players play in the NHL. I agree there. There is a very good reason for why Davidsson, Torgny Mårtensson and co don't play in the NHL. They aren't good enough. Mårtensson is ridiculously bad without the puck. Guys like Richard Wallin is a joke all over the board. Like at least a Joel Lundqvist is good at something, Wallin don't have a single strength, and he is soft and lazy.

But we are not picking out the best players here, we are picking out the best team we can. From my point of view that team lacks speed, ability to carry the puck and ability to cover a lot of ice -- at center ice. Davidsson have that. He have good attitude. He is experienced. He have played in NA.

And we could put him in a enviornment that would fit him really well in the Olympics.
It will be a bit diffrent from back in 2006 now it is in Canada davidsson is good But we have 4 centers Forsberg bäckström sedin Phålsson so why use davidsson as a winger when we have other wingers that are more used to the smal ice . what we need is wingers . Anyway that is my opinion.


Last edited by Berglund1313: 11-22-2009 at 09:43 PM.
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Old
11-23-2009, 01:59 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Systemfel View Post
Just watched the Ducks-Sharks game. Doug Murray has to be on the Swedish roster come February. We're gonna need his size and toughness. It's NHL-sized rinks, BÅG is not going to have an excuse to leave him off.


Douglas Murray is made of concrete and rebar!
I think he would perform well at the Olympics - protecting the crease and making opposing players think twice before crossing the Crankshaft track.

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Old
11-23-2009, 08:13 AM
  #58
Ola
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Originally Posted by HS View Post
Can you post or may be you have a link to Blomsten's lineup?
It was from a Viasat broadcast. He and Calle Johansson both presented a team.

I don't remember the exact teams, but both had Franzen if I remember correctly. Both had Mikael Samuelsson. Calle had Weinhandl and Ärtan had Omark.

Like I think Ärtan had:
Forsberg-Zetterberg-Franzen
Sedin-Sedin-Samuelsson
Omark-Bäckström-Alfredsson
PJ-Davidsson-Påhlsson

But I am not 100% about the Forsberg/Bäckström disposition.

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Old
11-23-2009, 08:26 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by mattihp View Post
I suggested Johan Davidsson to be the fourth center back in 2006 (you can look it up I believe) but was laughed at quite a bit


http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=3...&postcount=108

there we go

IMO Davidsson isn't a bit better than he was 3 years ago.
Jörgen Jönsson have retired since 2006'. He centered both Henka Sedin and Henrik Zetterberg in Turin.

Sami Påhlson have become 4 years older, and a lot slower. You do not put like Påhlson at center with Forsberg and Alfredsson these days and expects him to take care of everything spelled not circling down low. He is not what he used to be.

4 years ago, BÅG did not use Forsberg as a center.

How have we in Sweden played when we have been successful in the past? Yes, by giving our stars a perfect environment to focus on what they do best. By surronding them with players like Jörgen Jönsson.

We have players like Bäckström and Forsberg who are awesome with the puck in the attacking zone, but who also are on the slow side when it comes to getting the puck up ice. If you have seen Bäckström without AO in Washington this season you would know what I am talking about. Alfredsson is still (surprisingly) great, but he is also on the old side...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when I look at the team we have as a whole, I feel that we need more at center-ice. I don't belive in going into the tournament with Z, Sedin, Forsberg/Bäckström and Påhlsson at center. Especially when looking at our blue line. We do not have Kenny Jönsson anymore. Lidström is older. Who will be the 3rd offensiveminded D? Enström?

I also beliefs that Davidsson could thrive in the Olympics. He have all the tools to play decent. And more wouldn't be expected from him.

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Old
11-23-2009, 09:26 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Jörgen Jönsson have retired since 2006'. He centered both Henka Sedin and Henrik Zetterberg in Turin.

Sami Påhlson have become 4 years older, and a lot slower. You do not put like Påhlson at center with Forsberg and Alfredsson these days and expects him to take care of everything spelled not circling down low. He is not what he used to be.

4 years ago, BÅG did not use Forsberg as a center.

How have we in Sweden played when we have been successful in the past? Yes, by giving our stars a perfect environment to focus on what they do best. By surronding them with players like Jörgen Jönsson.

We have players like Bäckström and Forsberg who are awesome with the puck in the attacking zone, but who also are on the slow side when it comes to getting the puck up ice. If you have seen Bäckström without AO in Washington this season you would know what I am talking about. Alfredsson is still (surprisingly) great, but he is also on the old side...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but when I look at the team we have as a whole, I feel that we need more at center-ice. I don't belive in going into the tournament with Z, Sedin, Forsberg/Bäckström and Påhlsson at center. Especially when looking at our blue line. We do not have Kenny Jönsson anymore. Lidström is older. Who will be the 3rd offensiveminded D? Enström?

I also beliefs that Davidsson could thrive in the Olympics. He have all the tools to play decent. And more wouldn't be expected from him.
I also believe Davidsson would be a nice piece for sweden in the olympics this time around; but he would've been useful last time around as well.


Last edited by Systemfel: 11-23-2009 at 11:37 AM. Reason: No need for that.
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Old
11-23-2009, 01:04 PM
  #61
Martin Elz
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I think you are staring yourself blind on his offensive numbers, Davidsson has nothing to do on a checking line. Your comparison to Jörgen Jönsson is quite valid, both are seriously overrated defensively 5 on 5.
Jönsson was a favourite of B-Å Gustafsson who shouldn't have been there, and he was horrible.

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11-23-2009, 01:40 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Martin Elz View Post
I think you are staring yourself blind on his offensive numbers, Davidsson has nothing to do on a checking line. Your comparison to Jörgen Jönsson is quite valid, both are seriously overrated defensively 5 on 5.
Jönsson was a favourite of B-Å Gustafsson who shouldn't have been there, and he was horrible.
The thing is -- we can never defend well against Russia or Canada.

Like no team can defend well these days really, at least not without giving up their offensive game. You can't clutch and grab. There is "no" redline to defend

We need to get the puck and hang on to it. Make smart decisions with it. Never waste a transition play.

Play typical swedish puckpossesion hockehy.

Its not about playing defense, its about not making mistakes really. And to not make "avg" plays with the puck. To not skate over the redline and dump the puck in if we have a opertunity to just turn back to our D's and start over. To not try a fast play up ice if we don't have a good chance to counterattack. And if you end up in a situation you aren't used to -- still take care of it.

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Old
11-23-2009, 01:45 PM
  #63
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And lets not rewrite history about how we won the Olympics the last time around.

I recently watched both the semi and the final again. Alfredsson and Zetterberg took huge steps back in those two games.

Z took a lot of defensive responsibility on his line. And especially Alfie played more like a 3rd line checker then a go to player offensively. Thats why we won. We got a perfect mix.

Now Z, Alfie and co have to lead this team. Who is going to take a step back? Bäckström and Loui Eriksson? Nah don't think so. Its to much to ask from them.

Davidsson? He would for sure.

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11-23-2009, 02:04 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
And lets not rewrite history about how we won the Olympics the last time around.

I recently watched both the semi and the final again. Alfredsson and Zetterberg took huge steps back in those two games.

Z took a lot of defensive responsibility on his line. And especially Alfie played more like a 3rd line checker then a go to player offensively. Thats why we won. We got a perfect mix.

Now Z, Alfie and co have to lead this team. Who is going to take a step back? Bäckström and Loui Eriksson? Nah don't think so. Its to much to ask from them.

Davidsson? He would for sure.
Where can I watch the games? Or did you tape it or something?

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Old
11-23-2009, 04:02 PM
  #65
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Doesn't anyone believe that Johan Franzén will be in the squad? I just figure that if he's in, it will be easy just to pick someone else if come february he isn't fit. Wouldn't work the other way around though.


Also, I'm curious to what people on here think about Henrik Tallinders chances of making the squad.

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Old
11-23-2009, 04:50 PM
  #66
Ola
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Where can I watch the games? Or did you tape it or something?
Yepp VHS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mersey View Post
Also, I'm curious to what people on here think about Henrik Tallinders chances of making the squad.
Lidas, Kronwall and Öhlund got to be locks. Öhlund at least to 99%. I've heard that he don't like BÅG, but I am not sure if BÅG knows about that...

Thats basically a 1st pairing and a defensiveminded D on the 2nd pairing.

Which leaves a defensiveminded D position open for the 3rd and 4th pairs.

Here Tallinder is in competition with Johnny Oduya and Doug Murray first and foremost, and maybe even someone like Grossman or Edler. I know BÅG really likes Calle Gunnarsson but he have to be a long shot.

At this point I would go with;
Lidas-Kronwall
Öhlund-Hedman
Tallinder-Enström
Murray-M Johanson


But, Hedman is probably not a lock either, or Enström. If Oduya can take one of those players position Tallinders odds gets a lot better.

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11-23-2009, 09:06 PM
  #67
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Yeah Puckpossesion is a good idea, but you can't expect to own the puck 100% of the game.
We need players who are experienced playing in shutdown roles, who go against top lines every game.
Because in the Olympics, we don't face top lines as they are in the NHL... we face super lines. Lines NHL teams drool about.
Do you really want to put Davidsson, used to playing 1st line center in SEL, out there aginst them?
The same argument could be made about M Johansson.

Aren't Canada the home team? As in they make the last change?
Even more important to have a balanced line-up of players used to big roles on their teams.
Thats why we have to take a long hard look at our third defensive pairing, and ask ourselves, do we feel comfortable with these 2 guys defending us in a third period with the face-off in our zone, and the opponents top line out there?

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Old
11-23-2009, 11:42 PM
  #68
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Checking-line candidates:


Fredrik Sjöström
Samuel Påhlsson
Alexander Steen
Tom Wandell
Patric Hörnqvist
Patrik Berglund
PJ Axelsson
Marcus Nilson
Joel Lundqvist
Rikard Wallin
Fabian Brunnström



This would be the best..

Fredrik Sjöström - Samuel Påhlsson - Alexander Steen

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Old
11-24-2009, 07:04 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Loui don't have the qualitys this version of Tre Kronor needs -- IMHO.

We have a few offensive threats on our national team. Zetteberg. Forsberg. Alfredsson. The Sedins. Bäckström. Thats 5 players who can get something done offensively.

In the Olympics we will play extremely loaded teams.

Due to that, in order for Sweden, us, to be successful at that level we need to be able to play Swedish hockey -- a puck possession game.

Loui Eriksson don't contributes to that. Did you see Forsberg's play in the Karjala tournament? He will need a lot of support if he faces a line of like Morrow-M Richarads-Doan, or Nash-Crosby-Iginla, or Kovalchuk-Malkin-Frolov, or AO-Feds-Semin.

We can't just pick a "All-Star team" and expect a line of a 36 y/o Forsberg, a 37-38 y/o Alfredsson and a fishing Loui Eriksson to dominate against teams/lines/players like that.

I don't get how so few can realize that in Sweden. Over the years we have had success when our national team coach realizes that. When we have Jörgen Jönsson on our best of the best team. When we have Turbo Svensson as our offensive midfielder. We made a EC because some braindead soccer coach -- or he was braindead according to just about every fan and reporter -- put Johan Mjällby as our offensive midfielder. It was the same when someone played Klabbe over Limpar in a WCH's 15 years ago. Hardy had a bunch of selections like that. BÅG went with Ronnie Sundin just 3 years ago. Still everyone always wants the "All-Star selections"....

Sure Johan Davidsson is easily seperated from the puck. Sure, he won't dominate in the Olympics. But what options do we have? Richard Wallin? Joel Lundqvist? Or do anyone really belive that a line of Weinhandl-Forsberg-Loui E would win matchups against the best of the best in the Olympics? Davidson covers a ton of ice. He gets the puck up ice. He is smart. He is experienced. He works really really hard.
The option to Davidsson would be Loui Eriksson.

I agree with what you're saying about team > players and playing a puck possession game, but let's not stare blindly at player ages. Alfredsson is still one of the best two-way players in the league and Loui works hard and backchecks quite a bit while being a goal threat and a great skater. We have too few goal scorers as it is. He had a decent, not great WC. He certainly wasn't bad enough to have played himself off the Tre Kronor Olympics team. And it's a pretty small sample size. I value NHL track record higher.
Forsberg feels so so at center at this point, but I don't really see any alternative and if he does play center I'd like to see him play with two hard working forwards.
And btw Alfie, while taking this 3rd line role as you put it, still put up most points on the team by quite some distance (5+5 pts in 8). For Detroit, Zetterberg always "takes one step back" in the playoffs and is matched against opposing teams stars, yet manages to produce offensively as well.

And even if we don't have as many stars as Russia or Canada, our hockey team is worlds better than the football team so I don't think it's a fair comparison. In my opinion we have 5 of the 20 best forwards in the game, a legendary d-man and a very competent defence overall and one of the top 3 goalies in the world. In football we have Zlatan and pretty much a bunch of plugs.
And speaking of the tactical masterstroke of putting Mjällby behind the strikers in the midfield diamond.. Sure they made the Euros that time, but how did that team look in the big tournament? But yeah, we had a horrible team back then and we're speaking hockey here..

Essentially, what I don't get is why you would feel more comfortable having Davidsson play against a line like Morrow-Richards-Doan than Eriksson. He's a much better fit on small ice than Davidsson. Davidsson is a star player in the SEL and has played in the NHL that's true, but he was a flop sadly. Why? Because he's too soft. And you want to play him in a small ice olympics tournament? I just don't understand that. He's not the Klabbe Ingesson to Loui's Limpar. You make Loui sound like some passive cherry picker which is far from how I see him (which is more like a younger, a bit inferior Alfie).

I very much agree though that we are short on centers, but also top quality grinders/Olympic fourth liners. I wish we had at least one "luxury grinder" like a Doan. Hopefully prospects like Landeskog and Klingberg pan out so that we will have a bit more of a NA flavour to the team in the future.

Påhlsson might not be as great as he was when Anaheim won the cup, but he's the best shut down 4th liner we've got imo. He's very good at faceoffs and should be a lock as a fourth line center. Wallin has been underwhelming for Toronto. He doesn't seem to do anything better than average at this level. Holmström works hard and is good in the corners (and would be great to have on the PP) but is a very bad skater. Sjöström who's incredibly fast and a quality PK:er should be a lock imo.

Ideally, at this moment my team would be:

Zetterberg-Bäckström-please please please be healthy Franzén
Sedin-Sedin-Samuelsson/Weinhandl The Sedin show+someone that has played and worked well with them before
Eriksson-Forsberg-Alfie
Sjöström-Påhlsson-Holmström/Hörnqvist

Lidström-Kronwall
Öhlund-Enström
Murray-Hjalmarsson

Might be a bit early for Hjalmarsson, but I've been very very impressed with him. Hedman might be gassed by the time of the Olympics as he's playing ridiculously much in his first NHL season. Oduya is injured and had a bad start to the season, but might be a candidate. Grossman? Maybe. I've heard (only seen one BUF game) that Tallinder has started the season well playing with Myers, but I'm not a huge fan. Strålman? Too much of a liability. Same goes for Edler.

Yikes, that's a huge post. Sorry about that.

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11-24-2009, 11:15 AM
  #70
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Weinhandl on NHL ice=pure failure

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11-25-2009, 11:21 AM
  #71
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Ola have you really seen Loui Eriksson play hes a very good two way forward he was even up for selke considerations last year.

Furthermore the salary cap have not made the league worse since the cap teams can stack their lineups and the teams will be more even matched.

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Old
11-26-2009, 10:03 AM
  #72
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Todays team: (bold = defense minded)

Forsberg - Zetterberg - Weinhandl (just to scare line)
Huselius - Bäckström - Eriksson (spitzenkompetänz)
Steen - Davidsson - Alfredsson (allround line)
Sedin - Sedin - Samuelsson (yes, boxplay, and other teams best line)

Lidström - Kronwall
Öhlund - Hedman
Wallin - Murray
Gunnarsson - Tallinder

Lundqvist
Monster
Liv

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Old
11-26-2009, 04:22 PM
  #73
Ola
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmicnavigator View Post
Ola have you really seen Loui Eriksson play hes a very good two way forward he was even up for selke considerations last year.
Yes I've seen him play, I wouldn't post on this subject otherwise... Or why do you think Id give a damn if one of our highest scoring players in the NHL was on the team or not if I had not even seen him play?

Besides, just to be clear, I would not have anything against Loui Eriksson making the team. But I would like Davidsson to be one of the centers, and in competition with the rest of the wingers my opinion was the Loui should be the odd man out.

Quote:
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Furthermore the salary cap have not made the league worse since the cap teams can stack their lineups and the teams will be more even matched.
No the league overall might not be all that much worse. Sure about one full team have bolted to the KHL, but besides that the overall level ought to be pretty much the same, by some standard at least.

But take the English soccer as a example. Imagine if all the talent from the top teams in the PL was spread out over the 20 PL teams and 10 teams from the Championship. How would that league look? Youd have 30 teams at the level of Pompey basically...

My argument don't make sense per automatic, I get that. But from watching a ton of hockey my opinion is that its a lot easier to stand out and be a star today then 10-15 years ago. The level is not so high that it takes a lot more then a decent/good skill level and a good environment for a player to stand out and pop 30 goals.

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Old
11-26-2009, 04:24 PM
  #74
Ola
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Originally Posted by Martin Elz View Post
Aren't Canada the home team? As in they make the last change?
Even more important to have a balanced line-up of players used to big roles on their teams.
Thats why we have to take a long hard look at our third defensive pairing, and ask ourselves, do we feel comfortable with these 2 guys defending us in a third period with the face-off in our zone, and the opponents top line out there?
No, we have home ice against Canada every other time we play them.

If we had home ice in the WCH's when we faced them last season -- we will have away ice the next time we play them. Or the other way around.

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Old
11-26-2009, 04:28 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pentothal View Post
And btw Alfie, while taking this 3rd line role as you put it, still put up most points on the team by quite some distance (5+5 pts in 8). For Detroit, Zetterberg always "takes one step back" in the playoffs and is matched against opposing teams stars, yet manages to produce offensively as well.
Watch the two final games (that I talked about) again and you will get what I mean.

Quote:
Essentially, what I don't get is why you would feel more comfortable having Davidsson play against a line like Morrow-Richards-Doan than Eriksson. He's a much better fit on small ice than Davidsson. Davidsson is a star player in the SEL and has played in the NHL that's true, but he was a flop sadly. Why? Because he's too soft. And you want to play him in a small ice olympics tournament? I just don't understand that. He's not the Klabbe Ingesson to Loui's Limpar. You make Loui sound like some passive cherry picker which is far from how I see him (which is more like a younger, a bit inferior Alfie).
First of all, I think you post a lot of interesting thoughts and I can definitely understand why you feel like you do.

But let me try to explain how I am reasoning.

First of all, I don't think you can put together a line/team that can "defend" in the "NHL" game today. The game have changed. If a Zdeno Chara is pressured in his own end, he will end up on the back of someone and take a penalty or find himself in the position of a spectator. Just look at how all D's on "poor" teams are critizised these days. And our blueline in the Olympics will not at all be strong defensively in their own end. Öhlund isn't what he used to be for example... Or have he ever really been that good?

So while its true that we can't hold on to the puck all the time, I rather opt for more puck possession then more defense if you get what I mean.

Also, I am also not sold on Forsberg as a center. I think he would be easy to shut down at center. At wing, with a center like Davidsson, I think we could utilize him a lot better. Otherwise its perfectly possible the he is more negative for us then positive. That his line gets pushed back and exposed defensively like in the Karjala Tournament.


Last edited by Ola: 11-26-2009 at 04:36 PM.
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