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Tor Phi proposal

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Old
11-21-2009, 11:29 AM
  #26
johnny_rudeboy
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One player I dislike even more then Blake is Briere so no thanks. The only return we should be looking for Kaberle is young players about to become very good along with picks and prospects. Carter +1st was a deal like that. Now Carters value is as high (if not higher) then Kaberles but there are more players like that around. Berglund?

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Old
11-21-2009, 01:24 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBLEAF View Post
WHAT the #uck do we need carcillo for, briere is a has been
That "has been" has 12 points in 15 games this season. He's arguably been the Flyers' most consistent forward.

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Old
11-21-2009, 01:31 PM
  #28
CharlieGirl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New Jersey Devils View Post
flyers need briere more than they need kaberle. the fact blake is there makes it an instant no go.
Well said!

I understand Leafs fans wanting to jettison Blake. But Philadelphia isn't the right direction.

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Old
11-21-2009, 03:20 PM
  #29
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philly has no motivation to do this deal and the offer gives no enticement. try something a little sexier for both sides

briere
coburn
asham

for
kaberle
blake
kadri


it still probably wouldnt work but at least it gives pause for thought

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Old
11-21-2009, 05:45 PM
  #30
embracedbias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3lovr View Post
Not a fan of either team. I just like playing armchair GM


To PHI
Kaberle,
Blake

To Tor
Briere
Carcillo
Parent

Toronto gets a 1st line Center to compliment Kessel. They lose the worst contract in the league in Blake. They get a young stay at home defender, and some more truculence.
What? How could a $4 million cap hit be the worst in the league? That is totally absurd.

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Old
11-21-2009, 08:44 PM
  #31
TOCap1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainpaxil View Post
philly has no motivation to do this deal and the offer gives no enticement. try something a little sexier for both sides

briere
coburn
asham

for
kaberle
blake
kadri


it still probably wouldnt work but at least it gives pause for thought
We have no need for a guy like Briere eventhough he is a great player, we would want someone like a Van Reimesdyk(sp) or a Giroux instead and then you may have a deal with a little bit of an addition or subtraction to make the deal work

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Old
11-21-2009, 09:35 PM
  #32
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOCap1 View Post
We have no need for a guy like Briere eventhough he is a great player, we would want someone like a Van Reimesdyk(sp) or a Giroux instead and then you may have a deal with a little bit of an addition or subtraction to make the deal work
Defeats the purpose, and there is really not much of a purpose to begin with. Absolutely no need for Kaberle at this point.

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Old
11-21-2009, 11:25 PM
  #33
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Kaberle for Carter and a 1st.


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Old
11-22-2009, 07:38 AM
  #34
RJ8812
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i'd rather trade Carter right now

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Old
11-22-2009, 11:33 AM
  #35
TOCap1
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
i'd rather trade Carter right now
Does Toronto have any chance to get him if so what would it cost?

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Old
11-22-2009, 11:35 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ap3lovr View Post
Not a fan of either team. I just like playing armchair GM


To PHI
Kaberle,
Blake

To Tor
Briere
Carcillo
Parent

Toronto gets a 1st line Center to compliment Kessel. They lose the worst contract in the league in Blake. They get a young stay at home defender, and some more truculence.

Holgrem would hang up the phone the moment he hears Blake... no one wants this loser or his albatross of a contract

yeah I know Breire has a big contract too... but he STILL can be a PPG player and will put up 30goals (when healthy)... if he played a full season 80+ points is not unreasonable

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Old
11-22-2009, 11:57 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TOCap1 View Post
Does Toronto have any chance to get him if so what would it cost?
No

He is part of one of the best lines in the league (this year and last), and this season his playmaking ability has gone to levels I never knew he was capable of...he has learned how to pass in the NHL. His wrist shot will always be lethal, he has size/speed, and is a critical defensive forward against the Malkin/Crosby combo (especially now with Betts out).

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Old
11-22-2009, 11:58 AM
  #38
embracedbias
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Danny Briere ($6.5 million cap hit - 5 years left)
Last Season -> 29 GP, 25 Pts (.862 PPG)
This Season -> 16 GP, 12 Pts (.75 PPG)

Jason Blake ($4 million cap hit - 2 years left)
Last Season -> 78 GP, 63 Pts (.807 PPG)
This Season -> 21 GP, 14 Pts (.667 PPG)

Who is being massively overpaid again?

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Old
11-22-2009, 12:02 PM
  #39
sa cyred
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
Danny Briere ($6.5 million cap hit - 5 years left)
Last Season -> 29 GP, 25 Pts (.862 PPG)
This Season -> 16 GP, 12 Pts (.75 PPG)

Jason Blake ($4 million cap hit - 2 years left)
Last Season -> 78 GP, 63 Pts (.807 PPG)
This Season -> 21 GP, 14 Pts (.667 PPG)

Who is being massively overpaid again?
Goodluck with Blake We'd rather have Briere thanks

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Old
11-22-2009, 12:07 PM
  #40
embracedbias
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Goodluck with Blake We'd rather have Briere thanks
Cool.

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Old
11-22-2009, 12:29 PM
  #41
FlyLife
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
Danny Briere ($6.5 million cap hit - 5 years left)
Last Season -> 29 GP, 25 Pts (.862 PPG)
This Season -> 16 GP, 12 Pts (.75 PPG)

Jason Blake ($4 million cap hit - 2 years left)
Last Season -> 78 GP, 63 Pts (.807 PPG)
This Season -> 21 GP, 14 Pts (.667 PPG)

Who is being massively overpaid again?
Holy small sample size...Briere has a half season worth of stats there.

If you add on another season (all with their respective teams), the numbers look like this:
Blake: 129 points, 181 games played - 0.71 PPG
Briere: 113 points, 124 games played - 0.96 PPG

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Old
11-22-2009, 12:36 PM
  #42
embracedbias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
Holy small sample size...Briere has a half season worth of stats there.

If you add on another season (all with their respective teams), the numbers look like this:
Blake: 129 points, 181 games played - 0.71 PPG
Briere: 113 points, 124 games played - 0.96 PPG
That would be why I included PPG. Over the past two seasons, Briere's PPG hasn't been that much higher than Blake's. He's making $2.5 million more, after all.

The other season that you added for Blake was his cancer season, just FYI. If we are going to discount Briere's injuries as detracting from his worth in terms of contract dollars, we should take Blake's bought with cancer into consideration as well.

In any case, my point in posting the stats was to show how silly it is for people to be painting Blake's $4 million salary as an "albatross" or "the worse contract in the league", and then turning around and saying that Briere is "earning his contract". He was close to earning it a couple of years ago when he was a PPG player (although he made $10 million that season), but he hasn't come close since.

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Old
11-22-2009, 01:00 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by embracedbias View Post
That would be why I included PPG. Over the past two seasons, Briere's PPG hasn't been that much higher than Blake's. He's making $2.5 million more, after all.

The other season that you added for Blake was his cancer season, just FYI. If we are going to discount Briere's injuries as detracting from his worth in terms of contract dollars, we should take Blake's bought with cancer into consideration as well.

In any case, my point in posting the stats was to show how silly it is for people to be painting Blake's $4 million salary as an "albatross" or "the worse contract in the league", and then turning around and saying that Briere is "earning his contract". He was close to earning it a couple of years ago when he was a PPG player (although he made $10 million that season), but he hasn't come close since.
I said nothing about Briere's injury, nor Blake's cancer. Just pointing out the fact that you have 16, 21 and 29 game sample sizes that you are looking at...which to me, is pretty meaningless.

Looking at the bigger sample sizes, you get 0.71 for 4 mil and 0.96 for 6.5, which looks about right (relatively speaking).

My take? I think both contracts are overblown around here. Briere brings a little under a PPG to the team, and he has played good defense this year. Not sure how Blake has played, but I'm sure if Toronto didn't have him, they'd be even worse off this season (if that's possible). They might be slightly overpaid by about a mil each, but we aren't the ones paying the checks, and right now both teams are cap compliant. Philly might be in some trouble in a couple years, but so much can happen from now until then.

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Old
11-22-2009, 01:19 PM
  #44
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if i moved kabs to philly... i'd hope to get one of jvr or giroux coming back...

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11-22-2009, 01:46 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Porn* View Post
if i moved kabs to philly... i'd hope to get one of jvr or giroux coming back...
never happen... both still on entry level deals, and JVR will be a superstar, I expect Girioux the same

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Old
11-22-2009, 01:53 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by song4thedeaf View Post
never happen... both still on entry level deals, and JVR will be a superstar, I expect Girioux the same
didn't say it would happen... but it's what i'd want to happen lol

perhaps something like:

jvr + parent + salary dump

for

kulemin or ponikarovsky + kaberle + tlusty or blacker

might need tinkering...

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Old
11-22-2009, 02:09 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porn* View Post
if i moved kabs to philly... i'd hope to get one of jvr or giroux coming back...

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Old
11-22-2009, 02:10 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Porn* View Post
didn't say it would happen... but it's what i'd want to happen lol

perhaps something like:

jvr + parent + salary dump

for

kulemin or ponikarovsky + kaberle + tlusty or blacker

might need tinkering...
JVR is on pace for 40 goals and 80 some odd points in his rookie year.... he was 2nd overall drafted only behind P.Kane...

Once again... he will be a superstar within 3 years...

Philly just wouldn't do it.

JVR>Everyone on leafs but Kessel and Kaberle

Even then, they have good D and don't need Kaberle.. and within 2 years JVR>Kaberle

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Old
11-22-2009, 02:29 PM
  #49
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Leafs probably would do this.

I don't like it though.

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Old
11-22-2009, 02:46 PM
  #50
embracedbias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff VanRichards View Post
I said nothing about Briere's injury, nor Blake's cancer. Just pointing out the fact that you have 16, 21 and 29 game sample sizes that you are looking at...which to me, is pretty meaningless.

Looking at the bigger sample sizes, you get 0.71 for 4 mil and 0.96 for 6.5, which looks about right (relatively speaking).

My take? I think both contracts are overblown around here. Briere brings a little under a PPG to the team, and he has played good defense this year. Not sure how Blake has played, but I'm sure if Toronto didn't have him, they'd be even worse off this season (if that's possible). They might be slightly overpaid by about a mil each, but we aren't the ones paying the checks, and right now both teams are cap compliant. Philly might be in some trouble in a couple years, but so much can happen from now until then.
The reason that it's a small sample size for Briere is due to injuries. Thus, he hasn't been earning his paycheck last season and so far this season for two reasons: 1) He's had injury problems (not his fault, but the point still stands), and 2) He hasn't been scoring at a PPG pace.

Strictly speaking, the "sample size" in this example is not the number of games played, its the seasons that he's played. Thus the sample size is the same for Blake and Briere: 2 seasons.

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