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Old
11-23-2009, 01:55 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by sensfan83 View Post
He is on a great contract. But in my original post I was ranking them excluding contracts and, in that case, i think Campbell is >= Kaberle. He does everything Kaberle does but is a much faster and better skater and can actually throw a decent hit once in a while (albeit very infrequently). Both should be making something in the 5-6mil range.
Yeah it's just like how Fisher is better than, say, Parise!

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Old
11-23-2009, 02:22 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by leafsfan2 View Post
lets be honest even Chicago fans don't believe Campbell is better then Kaberle but i guess you know more.
I'll be honest with you - as a Chicago fan. If contracts were equal - I would prefer Campbell over Kaberle. I don't think there is a huge difference but IMO Campbell is a better skater and PMD than Kaberle. Kaberle is probably the better PP QB and neither one of them is going to make people forget Lidstrom or Pronger on the defensive end. I believe it is Campbell's contract that has gotten him so much negative press, but he is actually a very good player and is a valuable piece of our team.

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Old
11-23-2009, 10:07 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
I'll be honest with you - as a Chicago fan. If contracts were equal - I would prefer Campbell over Kaberle. I don't think there is a huge difference but IMO Campbell is a better skater and PMD than Kaberle. Kaberle is probably the better PP QB and neither one of them is going to make people forget Lidstrom or Pronger on the defensive end. I believe it is Campbell's contract that has gotten him so much negative press, but he is actually a very good player and is a valuable piece of our team.
i agree that if their contracts were identical campbell would probably be able to fetch an arm and a leg....unfortunately they are not and he is not only making a lot but for the next several years. in the cap world these factors play into value. all things equal i think i would still prefer kabs but preference is subjective.

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Old
11-23-2009, 10:09 AM
  #129
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I always thought Campbell sucked.

Then I realized how much better offensively he is than any other d-man we have, and how much better those guys are than the average defense core in the league. Not to mention that besides the odd play where he just sort of gives up on taking the body he's decent in the defensive zone.

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Old
11-23-2009, 10:36 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Since pretty much forever.
One of the biggest misconceptions out there.

Kaberle isn't bad defensively. He's in no way, shape, or form a "shutdown defenseman," but you don't need to be a shot-blocking bruiser to be good defensively. Kaberle's brain doesn't just shut down when he's in his own end. You don't need to be "physical" to be sound defensively.

He's extremely effective at using his speed and stickhandling to retrieve the puck and evade forecheckers, he is seldom caught out of position, and he thinks the game so well that gaffs and blunders aren't really that common. When they do occur, he usually has the wheels to backcheck and break up the play.

If you're going to criticize him, a lot of his turnovers come from trying to thread the needle in the neutral zone.

To describe Kaberle as "downright awful" is a dramatic distortion of the truth.

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Old
11-23-2009, 11:05 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by The Management View Post
One of the biggest misconceptions out there.

Kaberle isn't bad defensively. He's in no way, shape, or form a "shutdown defenseman," but you don't need to be a shot-blocking bruiser to be good defensively. Kaberle's brain doesn't just shut down when he's in his own end. You don't need to be "physical" to be sound defensively.

He's extremely effective at using his speed and stickhandling to retrieve the puck and evade forecheckers, he is seldom caught out of position, and he thinks the game so well that gaffs and blunders aren't really that common. When they do occur, he usually has the wheels to backcheck and break up the play.

If you're going to criticize him, a lot of his turnovers come from trying to thread the needle in the neutral zone.

To describe Kaberle as "downright awful" is a dramatic distortion of the truth.
Bingo, my thoughts exactly. You very rarely see a mistake out of him, and he's got a knack for making the right decision under pressure with the puck.

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Old
11-23-2009, 11:49 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Richter35 View Post
after reading thru some of these posts, I am intrigued about the campbell +++ for Kaberle offers. I think this is only feasible in the off season however, as Kaberle has the NTC now and CHI is fine capwise for the year, they don't want to upset a winning team

what about

campbell
sopel
1st '10
sharp (I don't know who would be 3rd line C in this scenario, perhaps versteeg?)

total contract value for next year - ~13.5MM

for

Kaberle
Blake
prospect D (Gunarsson?)

8MM coming back, buyout blake (2MM,2,1,1 cap hit) so in effect you clear out 6.5MM for next season. CHI Upgrade on D with kaberle, lose some forward depth but they have lots of guys to replace that. would that be enough to re-sign everybody for next year?
This trade makes sense for both sides.

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Old
11-23-2009, 01:56 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EbonyRaptor View Post
I'll be honest with you - as a Chicago fan. If contracts were equal - I would prefer Campbell over Kaberle. I don't think there is a huge difference but IMO Campbell is a better skater and PMD than Kaberle. Kaberle is probably the better PP QB and neither one of them is going to make people forget Lidstrom or Pronger on the defensive end. I believe it is Campbell's contract that has gotten him so much negative press, but he is actually a very good player and is a valuable piece of our team.
Kaberle is a better PMD and PPQ plus he is better then Campbell defensively, so i don't know why you would take Campbell over Kaberle if contract equal, but i agree in a sense that both are pretty similar its juts Kaberle is little better.

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Old
11-23-2009, 01:59 PM
  #134
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Luke Schenn

for

Patrick sharp.

Get it done burke.

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Old
11-23-2009, 02:10 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Grub View Post
Luke Schenn

for

Patrick sharp.

Get it done burke.
Not in a million years, and I like Sharp.

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Old
11-23-2009, 02:11 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by grabo84 View Post
Not in a million years, and I like Sharp.
hey trolling relax


Last edited by leafsfan2: 11-23-2009 at 02:19 PM.
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Old
11-23-2009, 02:16 PM
  #137
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I would not mind seeing Kaberle coming to the Kings.

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Old
11-23-2009, 02:17 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by saintsnsoldiers View Post
I would not mind seeing Kaberle coming to the Kings.
It starts with B. Schenn coming our way.

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Old
11-23-2009, 02:59 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Grub View Post
Luke Schenn

for

Patrick sharp.

Get it done burke.
Add a first round pick and it's done.

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Old
11-23-2009, 03:08 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Poor Irish Trash View Post
It starts with B. Schenn coming our way.
and your first round pick

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Old
11-23-2009, 04:34 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by d3f3ns3 View Post
This trade makes sense for both sides.
I don't see how it is good for Toronto...So we give up Blake's bad contract, but get 2 bad contracts in return in Campbell and Sopel..We may get a 1st and Sharp, but is it worth giving up a prospect who looks good (Gunnarsson) and Kaberle?..I do not think it is..

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Old
11-23-2009, 04:36 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by gabeliscious View Post
and your first round pick
I'd trade Kaberle for Brayden Schenn straight up.

Nothing else needed, IMO.

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Old
11-23-2009, 05:06 PM
  #143
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Kaberle,Poni/Stajan
for
Jack Johnson,Voynov,Simmonds

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Old
11-23-2009, 05:10 PM
  #144
Chandrashekhar Limit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Epic response. How can anyone argue with that logic
Yea, really, the part after that explaining that was just there for fun. Jeeze, man learn to read.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
I read it just fine. You didn't seem to be able to keep up, frankly. And it bothers you so much you drug it back up here.
Yea bothered me. Seeing there have about 4 or 5 salary dumps recently, i thought you would have the sense to know what kind of value those things return. Apparently, in your world, you get fair value for your salary dump.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Since pretty much forever.
Well, i guess you need to watch some more. Anyone who has watched Kaberle play, and says that he is awful defensively doesn't know a thing about hockey, or really needs to get their eyes checked. I wonder which one is right for you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Yes he does. Keep drinking that koolaid. But of course, clearly you must be smarter than Quinn, Maurice, Wilson...
There is no need to drink the koolaid be had. I have watched this guy play since 2004. Sure he has had bad defensive plays, and games even. However, it is a pretty damn common observation that Kaberle is not awful. Seriously, i suggest that you take some time and watch some leaf games.

It has nothing to do with being smart. Find me where any of those guys said he is awful. I have facts top back it up because i actually watch the freakin games and haven't seem him get beat one on one too often, or give the puck away. There is a reason why he is considered to an elite puck mover.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Right back at ya. But, in my case, I actually have facts on my side. Case in point...
What facts? All you have been saying is that he is awful and doesn't get much PK time. He is a PP QB, and defensively sound. You don't put defensively sound, or PP QB's on the ice during your PK. You put the ones who are best defensively. On this team, those guys so far are Beauch, Komi, White. He sure as hell has been better defensively than Schenn, Finger/Gunnar and even better than Beach at times. Just because he wasn't put on the PK doesn't mean RW doesn't trust him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Yes, they're so much better defensively than him they've led the Leafs to season after season of dead last penalty killing and worst in the league defensively.
Man, watch some Leaf games. At the beginning of the year, we had a new D core in place, and Toskala was playing just awful. Almost every game he gave away a softie, and during Pk's, almost any respectable shot went in. The defence can't do much when they don't get decent saves from their goalie. Once, again, the last few games the PK has been solid because the new D has been able to gel, and we have gotten solid goaltending from Toskala, and Gusty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
LOL. If that is "better defensively than him" I think you just made my point for me. Thanks!
Not really. Since the beginning you have been going about how Kabs is crap defensively. Every proof i gave you has proven your point wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
Where do you come up with this stuff? Are you just typing words at random?
I come with this stuff by typing what i have seen the past few years. I am sure you know much more, seeing how most of "facts"/comments are based on common HF misconceptions, and mostly your opinion. No i do not type random crap. If i did, it would look like this: "ashdfjkashdfjklashdf", not like words.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy_Ike View Post
So, you just started watching hockey 8 games ago then?

I've been watching it a bit longer, I'm afraid. I'm also afraid to tell you that your own coaches agree with me, not you.

That must hurt!

What the hell kind of logic is that? So i bring up a fact, you have no way to prove it wrong, so you say i started watching 8 games ago? Wow. That further proves that you don't watch the leafs play at all, and make up most of the crap you type. I have been watching this team play since 04, and no, the reason we have pretty bad PK's are not Kaberle. Last year Toskala was ****. He was at the beginning of this year as well. This year the PK has been doing well recently cuz the goaltending has been solid, not to mention, the addition of Komi.

O boy, your comments really hurt .

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Old
11-23-2009, 09:33 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Ovechkin187 View Post
Kaberle,Poni/Stajan
for
Jack Johnson,Voynov,Simmonds
why exactly would we trade for another defensive dman

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Old
11-23-2009, 10:14 PM
  #146
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How about
To Chicago:
Poni
Tlusty
Frogren/Exelby

To Toronto:
Sopel
Versteeg
1st/2nd (whatever is most fair)

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