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Old
11-29-2009, 05:58 PM
  #26
Claxton
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Please don't the phrase "smart drafting" when it involves Pittsburgh and Crosby and Malkin.

The fact they even got those players by being one of the worst franchises in professional sports is a disgrace.

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11-29-2009, 06:04 PM
  #27
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Giving up Callahan puts the deal way over the top. As good as Frolov may be, its a massive overpayment for a pending UFA. Girardi and Lisin and MAYBE a low pick would get it done for Frolov.

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11-29-2009, 06:06 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Claxton View Post
Please don't the phrase "smart drafting" when it involves Pittsburgh and Crosby and Malkin.

The fact they even got those players by being one of the worst franchises in professional sports is a disgrace.
Then if you'd like to split hairs perhaps we can talk about richards, Carter, Gagne, Parise, Elias, Okposo, and Tavares. The point being that those teams have done things in ways the Rangers have not. In order for teams to acquire players like that they either have to draft them, or overpay on the free agent market/trade for them. The key being when you bring them up through your system, they start off cheaper and you can afford to build around them. When those players get raises, most of the time they are still at discounts because of loyalty/benefits of having extended negotiation time. You think Malkin or Crosby only get 8 mil a year on the free agent market? When you take the free agency approach that the Rangers have, you over pay and get stuck trying to find cheap plugs just to get under the cap.

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11-29-2009, 06:28 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by UAGoalieGuy View Post
With Frolov being an impending UFA, I think it would take much more then Girardi and a middle round pick for Frolov, who will be looking for around $4 to $5 million/year.

Just looking at his stats real fast, he has been regressing point wise the last few years:

2006-07: 35g 36a 71pts
2007-08: 23g 44a 67pts
2008-09: 32g 27a 59pts
2009-10: (Projected) 18g 37a 56pts
To play devil's advocate against myself, lol I do have to say that in 5 of Frolov's 6 full NHL season's he has netted at least 20 goals (24, 21, 35,23, 32). I wouldn't break that bank on him. I think either Girardi straight up or Girardi and a middle pick will get it done.

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Old
11-29-2009, 06:55 PM
  #30
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Since we can't guarantee having the cap space to sign him next year, dumping decent pieces for Frolov seems like a shortsighted risk that I wouldn't take.

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11-29-2009, 07:17 PM
  #31
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Since we can't guarantee having the cap space to sign him next year, dumping decent pieces for Frolov seems like a shortsighted risk that I wouldn't take.
That seems the smart take.
I don't understand why Rangers fans are even talking about dealing Girardi. He has been a good and cheap player for you, and apart from Staal he is easily your best defender defensively. That's why he is the only other D-man topping 20 minutes a night, and that's why he and Staal get the most difficult assignments. He hits more than any other Rangers defender and he blocks more shots.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/new_...&team=NYR&pos=

It seems like the love affair with your young defensemen is taken a tad or 10 too far. You need established D-men who can actually defend in this league, and Girardi, much like Callahan and Dubinsky btw. should be some of the guys Rangers build on.

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Old
11-29-2009, 07:21 PM
  #32
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Still regret not signing Malone... Even with his price-tag..

Antropov isn't physical, but his combination of size and skill would have helped our top-6 as well. Especially since he can play center and wing..

I acquired Frolov in my lolNHL game, but I don't think he's worth the assets that'll probably be required to obtain him. Especially since he just might be a rental. He's not very consistent either, which is what our team is plagued with.

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Old
11-29-2009, 07:22 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I don't think Frolov is what we need right now so pass.
Bingo!

Counter:

Jack Johnson and Colten Teubert for Marc Staal and some pick

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Old
11-29-2009, 07:27 PM
  #34
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I like Frolov and would welcome him for the right price, but Callahan isn't going anywhere.

Some of the scouting reports on Frolov in this thread are dead wrong. He's a fantastic player many nights, but he has motivation issues. Not on the same level as Zherdev, but he's not too far off.

He could step in right away as the 1st line LW and would already be tied for 3rd on our team in scoring. I'm not sure what it would take at this point, but I'm really surprised at the fact that people don't want him at all.

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Old
11-29-2009, 07:58 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by There's only one 66 View Post
That seems the smart take.
I don't understand why Rangers fans are even talking about dealing Girardi. He has been a good and cheap player for you, and apart from Staal he is easily your best defender defensively. That's why he is the only other D-man topping 20 minutes a night, and that's why he and Staal get the most difficult assignments. He hits more than any other Rangers defender and he blocks more shots.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/2009/new_...&team=NYR&pos=

It seems like the love affair with your young defensemen is taken a tad or 10 too far. You need established D-men who can actually defend in this league, and Girardi, much like Callahan and Dubinsky btw. should be some of the guys Rangers build on.
The problem is this:

1) He is due for a raise
2) He has good value
3) He hasnt taken the steps forward we all thought he would
4) With McDonagh and Sanguinetti very close to being ready and Redden being the immovable asset that leaves Girardi and Rozsival as the 2 players most likely to be dealt as MDZ, Staal and Gilroy arent going anywhere.

Basically, it's just a numbers game. He is due to be paid about 2.5-3 million a season and considering the Rangers have acquired such good young d-men in different ways(Gilroy, MDZ, Staal, Sangs, McDonagh) who are cheaper and look to have more upside it makes sense in the long-run to try and get good value back for him.

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Old
11-29-2009, 08:22 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
The problem is this:

1) He is due for a raise
2) He has good value
3) He hasnt taken the steps forward we all thought he would
4) With McDonagh and Sanguinetti very close to being ready and Redden being the immovable asset that leaves Girardi and Rozsival as the 2 players most likely to be dealt as MDZ, Staal and Gilroy arent going anywhere.

Basically, it's just a numbers game. He is due to be paid about 2.5-3 million a season and considering the Rangers have acquired such good young d-men in different ways(Gilroy, MDZ, Staal, Sangs, McDonagh) who are cheaper and look to have more upside it makes sense in the long-run to try and get good value back for him.
bickity bam. nail meets head.

mcdonaugh project to be a girardi type with a little more offensive capabilities. potter is already a poor man's girardi. sauer can play a similar style to girardi. he's a solid d man. he's not overly physical and he's not a crease clearer. he's good, but he isn't that good. the thing is, some people seem to think he is a lot better than he is. he has value and he seems to be one of the odd men out. why not try to get a nice piece for him?

and frolov's numbers going down has a lot to do with the fact that he's no longer the focal point of his team's offense. with the emergence of kopitar and dustrin brown the past couple of years and the acquisition of smyth, his role has diminished. he's still young. he'd be getting serious minutes on the rangers.

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Old
11-29-2009, 08:53 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
Girardi, Callahan, Lisin, 4th




Frolov



would you do it? do you think they would do it?


now, i like both girardi and cally, but i'd take the chance on frolov...even if he is a ufa this summer. the problem is who would step into girardi's spot. i personally wouldn't mind letting a rookie have it, but i know many would feel like having 3 rooks in your top 6 is suicide.

frolov is a star and i think he'd mesh well with anisimov (not just bc they are both russian) and we'd probably be able to bring him back this summer at around 4 mil.



flame on
Perfect example of a panic move.

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Old
11-29-2009, 09:03 PM
  #38
TheHotRock
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Perfect example of a panic move.
maybe you should give us a post that's more than a sentence fragment. too much to ask?

how is trading a pending fa, late round pick, lost "enigma" and a gritty chracater 3rd liner for a guy who can score 70 points a panic move?

callahan won't score 70 points over the course of his current contract.

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Old
11-29-2009, 09:05 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
maybe you should give us a post that's more than a sentence fragment. too much to ask?

how is trading a pending fa, late round pick, lost "enigma" and a gritty chracater 3rd liner for a guy who can score 70 points a panic move?

callahan won't score 70 points over the course of his current contract.
No, I think saying it's a panic move pretty much says everything I wanted to say. Sorry if it didn't contain enough words for you.

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Old
11-30-2009, 04:46 AM
  #40
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we need a bonified no 1 Center.

vinny is doing his best but he is not a No 1 Centerman, neither really are Dubinsky or Drury.

The Getzlaffs, thortons, Toews are not growing on trees.

So we go back to the square 1 blaming our GM who in 5 (6 maybe 7) years didn't manage to trade in, select, acquire or steel a proper no 1 Center.

Nylander was forced on him by Jagr, but he wasnt' a number 1 center either. He rode on a beastly Jagr's coattails.

The Gomez, Drury saga from which we have not yet recovered. The hopes on Dubinsky who is not (yet) and maybe never will be a number 1 center.

Heck I reckon Manny Malhotra has more points over the past 3 years than Dubinsky.

Just think of the Centers that were available in the , or were traded, since we got Gomez and Drury.

So since offense has been at such a premium we had to play boring skinty defense and had some limited success with it under Renney. Now we got a new coach who'se idea of hockey is total attack, but he hasn't got the players and when it goes wrong we get filled in from all sides.

We got young D and that is beautiful but young D's make mistakes. it then leads to the old guys having tocover for them to compensate and then they look lousy too. the TB game was horrendous.

All this gets covered up by the euphoria surrounding the stellar play of Gabby but he must regret being here already.

so what do we need?

I reckon we need a trade at this point. I reckon we might even have to sacrifice the unthinkable. Lundquist for a A1 center. Give me Getzlaff or give me death!

Lunquist, Girardi (but it will probably take Staal) for Getzlaf and Hiller!


Last edited by Sad London Ranger: 11-30-2009 at 08:28 AM.
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Old
11-30-2009, 06:14 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Still regret not signing Malone... Even with his price-tag..

Antropov isn't physical, but his combination of size and skill would have helped our top-6 as well. Especially since he can play center and wing..

I acquired Frolov in my lolNHL game, but I don't think he's worth the assets that'll probably be required to obtain him. Especially since he just might be a rental. He's not very consistent either, which is what our team is plagued with.
Malone never got to free agency. His rights were traded to Tampa before July 1 and he signed with TB the next day. His father Greg is pro scout with TB.

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Old
11-30-2009, 06:24 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
The problem is this:

1) He is due for a raise
2) He has good value
3) He hasnt taken the steps forward we all thought he would
4) With McDonagh and Sanguinetti very close to being ready and Redden being the immovable asset that leaves Girardi and Rozsival as the 2 players most likely to be dealt as MDZ, Staal and Gilroy arent going anywhere.

Basically, it's just a numbers game. He is due to be paid about 2.5-3 million a season and considering the Rangers have acquired such good young d-men in different ways(Gilroy, MDZ, Staal, Sangs, McDonagh) who are cheaper and look to have more upside it makes sense in the long-run to try and get good value back for him.
What you said.

Rozsival isn't moving b/c money is difficult to move in season. His salary drops to $4 million and then $3 million from $6 million this season which makes him easier to move in late June/early July 2010. $13 million out of the $20 million is paid out in the first two seasons of the contract. The one possibility is Carolina which has two D (Gleason and Pitkanen.Not counting Andrew Alberts who is a 6th D) signed for next season. Maybe the Rangers could move Rozsival there for a deal involving Ray Whitney and another salary which evens out the money and then Carolina has a top 4 D signed for the next two seasons at a combined $7 million.

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Old
11-30-2009, 07:20 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
I'm not sure I agree with that. With Frolov comes some size and scoring. We need both.
what good is size if it's not used?

Frolov is a good sniper, but he's not a player that imposes his physicality on opposing players the way we need it.

He's also a player that heavily depends on his center to get him the puck in optimal scoring situations.

He's not what this team needs.

This team needs a legit 1st line center.

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Old
11-30-2009, 08:32 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
what good is size if it's not used?

Frolov is a good sniper, but he's not a player that imposes his physicality on opposing players the way we need it.

He's also a player that heavily depends on his center to get him the puck in optimal scoring situations.

He's not what this team needs.

This team needs a legit 1st line center.
Agree wholeheartedly - but how do we accomplish that? Trade Callahan or Dubi for
a Stud? It's not going to happen.

Our main prizes are: Lundquist and maybe DelZotto! Possibly Staal. that's it!
Only these 3 players can unlodge a no 1 Center. And I think of Getzlaff because he is still young. Maybe next year something will unlodge in chicago but its slim pickins.

I certainly dont suggest we trade del Zotto for Arnott but a no1 Center difference maker will cost us our best players.

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