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Gut check for Torts

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Old
11-30-2009, 07:38 AM
  #1
The Perfect Paradox
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Gut check for Torts

Thought it was a pretty good read.

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After the Rangers were routed in Tampa on Friday but before they were routed in Pittsburgh on Saturday, John Tortorella suggested that it was past time for the locker room to "take ownership" of the inconsistency that has marked the past six weeks.
Quote:
First things first, though: The Rangers need better from Henrik Lundqvist, who presumably will not be bumped from his start tonight by Steve Valiquette, Chad Johnson, Jussi Markkanen, Vitali Yeremeyev or Doug Soetaert, though following this weekend's goaltending rotation, one never quite knows.
Quote:
Lundqvist has been only slightly better than ordinary during the Rangers' 6-11-1 descent toward the bottom of the Atlantic Division. The King has allowed too many marginal goals, too many on shots that seemed to handcuff or surprise him while deep in the net.
Quote:
Tortorella joined the Rangers preaching, "It's not about defense, it's not about the defensive zone," before amending his mantra. The problem is, his team has apparently taken him at his original word, for the Blueshirts enter tonight's match ranked 24th in the NHL in goals-against average.
Quote:
Tortorella deserves credit for assigning prominent roles to the Youth of Broadway. But now in the teeth of a schedule that mandates matches against the Sabres (twice), Red Wings and Blackhawks immediately following tonight, the Rangers are facing a pre-winter crisis.

It is time for Tortorella to take ownership of that. It is time for Tortorella to take ownership of the Rangers. If he does not, he will never need to worry about having to acknowledge a Garden crowd giving him a standing ovation.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...oMcEQnQaG8JhBI

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Old
11-30-2009, 07:48 AM
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Sounds like Brroks is suggesting it's gut-check time for both John Tortorella and Henrik Lundqvist.

And he's absolutely correct.

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11-30-2009, 07:50 AM
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The room apparently hasn't taken 'ownership' of anything other than game day paychecks.The Captain has not let the back to back reamings ruin his weekend, nor has anyone else on the team let this ruin their weekend.

I don't know what to expect anymore with this team.They are going to tease us with a well played game and right the ship for 24-48 hours until they get steamrolled by the Sabres, Redwings and 'Hawks in the coming week.

Despite all of that, I will be parked in front of the TV this evening to watch my team play.

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11-30-2009, 08:08 AM
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Rangers have become a pretty one dimensional team.

Its the Gaborik show.

The better teams will be routing the Rangers regularly if changes are not made.

Gameplan:

Shut down Gabby...the Rangers fold

Run their skilled guys - no one can fight, except Brashear who only fights by "the code"... lol

Wear down the young overworked defense

Try to get Lundqvist to "play the puck"

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11-30-2009, 08:10 AM
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that was actually a surprisingly bland article from brooks

i expected him to be a lot more vocal and radical than this and really be calling for Tort's head

its nice to see him calling out Henrik though, he gets a lot of free passes around these parts

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Old
11-30-2009, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by OrbitalDynamics View Post
The room apparently hasn't taken 'ownership' of anything other than game day paychecks.The Captain has not let the back to back reamings ruin his weekend, nor has anyone else on the team let this ruin their weekend.

I don't know what to expect anymore with this team.They are going to tease us with a well played game and right the ship for 24-48 hours until they get steamrolled by the Sabres, Redwings and 'Hawks in the coming week.

Despite all of that, I will be parked in front of the TV this evening to watch my team play.
Lets face it. Theres only one captain in that room, and its my way or the highway John Tortorella. Problem is, his way doesnt seem to be working. He needs to find a way to give this team an identity.

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Old
11-30-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by OrbitalDynamics View Post
The Captain has not let the back to back reamings ruin his weekend, nor has anyone else on the team let this ruin their weekend.
I think it's time for a new captain, someone to hold these guys accountable, also I would bring Chad Johnson up and let him start tonight, shake things up, this team is dead in the water!

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11-30-2009, 08:45 AM
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Torts should look in the mirror also, wtf did he change the system, the aggressive forechecking, attacking style got us to 7-1, wtf happened?

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11-30-2009, 08:47 AM
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Higgins, Rozsival, Drury, Voros, Brashear, and Boyle are absolute wastes of roster space.

The season started with balanced scoring, but I don't see Lisin, Drury, Kotalik, and everyone but Gaborik and Prospal lighting the scoresheet.

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Old
11-30-2009, 08:49 AM
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totally correct assessment.

Torts is quick to point the finger at the players not doing what he has been asking of them. But ultimately it is his job.

I preferred the sound defensive game of Renney, because it may not have been exciting but we were in with a chance with far more matches than we are now.

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11-30-2009, 08:50 AM
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Johnson would be use to the Rangers play of late. Last year he kept UAF in most games when we only scored a couple of points a game and still managed to win.

Hank is defiantly the man to go with but it would be nice to see Ocho get a game or two in…..

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Old
11-30-2009, 08:52 AM
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as long as it wouldn't hurt his development, I'd love to see Johnson get a game or two in at least.. the kid looked like the best goaltender in preseason who knows maybe he has a great future ahead of him. Plus if he did play great than maybe he would pose some sort of challenge for the #1 spot and maybe that would get Hank fired up to play a little better

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11-30-2009, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by ak10r View Post
it would be nice to see Ocho get a game or two in…..
We already know what Valiquette and his 3.74 GAA can't do, give the kid a chance...

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11-30-2009, 09:29 AM
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Its gut check time for everyone who is not a rookie, gaborik, and prospal

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11-30-2009, 09:42 AM
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Its gut check time for everyone who is not a rookie, gaborik, and prospal
Agreed.

I really think guys like Higgins, Drury, Callahan and even Lundqvist really need to step it up big time.

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11-30-2009, 09:49 AM
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I really don't think the backup goalie is the most pressing issue here. Yeah, Vally got lit up in the 3rd, but our team was awful. If Vally was capable of keeping the team in it during a game like that, he'd be a starter somewhere, not a career backup.

We're a team with 2/3rds of a 1st line, a struggling Vezina caliber goalie, a highly overrated coach at the helm, and a very, very young defensive core. I think most people realized that this season would live and die by Gaborik's groin and how consistent Hank would be. Well, we've seen Hank is struggling again and while Gaborik has held up in terms of health, having him be shutdown by the other team isn't much different that having him out of the lineup.

This team is dying for some legitimate secondary scoring. I really could care less whether or not that scoring comes from a gritty power forward type, or a perimeter skill player. We need it, and need it badly. Still, I look at this team and have to wonder whether or not it's wise to spend assets to acquire those pieces.

Would I welcome Ray Whitney, Alex Frolov, or David Backes to the team? Sure. But are any of those guys going to make us cup contenders? Well, short of getting all of them for next to nothing, I seriously doubt it.

Frankly, I'm not holding out hope for Tortorella to turn things around. He's far too stubborn to play a conservative style and I have my doubts that this mindset will lead us to the playoffs at all, let alone beyond the 1st round.

My suggestion to Torts: Take this as a transition year. Take some of the pressure off of the players and let them adjust to your "the best defense is no defense at all" strategy. Continue to rotate rookies into the lineup for a few games here and there and learn as much as you can about our prospects. For a head coach, you're pretty damn clueless when it comes to what you have at your disposal outside of the immediate roster.

My advice to Sather: Buy low. See if you can acquire guys like the aforementioned David Backes, or perhaps Peter Mueller. Guys that have the upside but could do with a change of scenery and are members of teams that need a shakeup. We have (hopefully) 5 years of a healthy Gaborik in his prime. Aim for having the last 3 years be the ones where we really start to compete. At that point, we should be rid of a couple big contracts-- even if you can't manage to trade them away between now and then-- and our promising rookies should have had some solid NHL experience under their belts. Then you can dance in the field of free agency and add a player that will actually help us.

Just my opinion.

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Old
11-30-2009, 09:52 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I really don't think the backup goalie is the most pressing issue here. Yeah, Vally got lit up in the 3rd, but our team was awful. If Vally was capable of keeping the team in it during a game like that, he'd be a starter somewhere, not a career backup.

We're a team with 2/3rds of a 1st line, a struggling Vezina caliber goalie, a highly overrated coach at the helm, and a very, very young defensive core. I think most people realized that this season would live and die by Gaborik's groin and how consistent Hank would be. Well, we've seen Hank is struggling again and while Gaborik has held up in terms of health, having him be shutdown by the other team isn't much different that having him out of the lineup.

This team is dying for some legitimate secondary scoring. I really could care less whether or not that scoring comes from a gritty power forward type, or a perimeter skill player. We need it, and need it badly. Still, I look at this team and have to wonder whether or not it's wise to spend assets to acquire those pieces.

Would I welcome Ray Whitney, Alex Frolov, or David Backes to the team? Sure. But are any of those guys going to make us cup contenders? Well, short of getting all of them for next to nothing, I seriously doubt it.

Frankly, I'm not holding out hope for Tortorella to turn things around. He's far too stubborn to play a conservative style and I have my doubts that this mindset will lead us to the playoffs at all, let alone beyond the 1st round.

My suggestion to Torts: Take this as a transition year. Take some of the pressure off of the players and let them adjust to your "the best defense is no defense at all" strategy. Continue to rotate rookies into the lineup for a few games here and there and learn as much as you can about our prospects. For a head coach, you're pretty damn clueless when it comes to what you have at your disposal outside of the immediate roster.

My advice to Sather: Buy low. See if you can acquire guys like the aforementioned David Backes, or perhaps Peter Mueller. Guys that have the upside but could do with a change of scenery and are members of teams that need a shakeup. We have (hopefully) 5 years of a healthy Gaborik in his prime. Aim for having the last 3 years be the ones where we really start to compete. At that point, we should be rid of a couple big contracts-- even if you can't manage to trade them away between now and then-- and our promising rookies should have had some solid NHL experience under their belts. Then you can dance in the field of free agency and add a player that will actually help us.

Just my opinion.
Good synopsis of the situation, especially regarding Torts.

For the record, I dont think he is much of a "hockey mind" at all. Hes more of a motivator than anything.

For the last month+, he sure doesnt seem to be motivating anybody. And the system theyre playing, whatever that might be right now, needs some serious tweaking.

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Old
11-30-2009, 10:07 AM
  #18
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A good ammount of the goals this team gives up on a night to night basis are blown coverage goals... this tells me that the "System" they're playing hasn't sunk in yet OR they just suck at it.

Time will tell but while that time flys by... they drop like stones in the standings... and all Gilroy/Sangs/MDZ/Anisimov are learning is how to lose in the NHL.

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Old
11-30-2009, 10:17 AM
  #19
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A good ammount of the goals this team gives up on a night to night basis are blown coverage goals... this tells me that the "System" they're playing hasn't sunk in yet OR they just suck at it.

Time will tell but while that time flys by... they drop like stones in the standings... and all Gilroy/Sangs/MDZ/Anisimov are learning is how to lose in the NHL.
The defensive zone coverage is appauling. Every unit is just running around out there.

Equally disturbing is the coverage in the nuetral/defensive zone when the opposition is coming down on the rush.

Tortorella's system is designed to limit chances against by employing a hard-forechecking/puck possession team. I think, as you pointed out, this team just sucks at it. Its really not rocket science.

Whats most concerning is Tortorella's lack of interest on the defensive side of the puck. Safe is Death doesnt work when the other team constantly has the puck.

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11-30-2009, 10:43 AM
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You can argue that Hank needs to get better, and you would probably be right, but if the defense and offense continue to play as poorly as they are it won't matter.

But I still maintain that this teams won't go anywhere even if Hank starts playing better. Miller, Cam Ward, and Luongo are all really good goalies, and yet their teams still missed the playoffs at least once since the lockout (Ward and Miller twice), with arguably better teams in front of them then what we have now. You can't expect your goalie to be superman every season. Have to find other ways to win

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11-30-2009, 10:47 AM
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Agreed.

I really think guys like Higgins, Drury, Callahan and even Lundqvist really need to step it up big time.
Or else what?

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11-30-2009, 10:50 AM
  #22
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Or else what?
Or else Tortorella will say something macho.

...and then nothing will happen.

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Old
11-30-2009, 11:24 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I really don't think the backup goalie is the most pressing issue here. Yeah, Vally got lit up in the 3rd, but our team was awful. If Vally was capable of keeping the team in it during a game like that, he'd be a starter somewhere, not a career backup.

We're a team with 2/3rds of a 1st line, a struggling Vezina caliber goalie, a highly overrated coach at the helm, and a very, very young defensive core. I think most people realized that this season would live and die by Gaborik's groin and how consistent Hank would be. Well, we've seen Hank is struggling again and while Gaborik has held up in terms of health, having him be shutdown by the other team isn't much different that having him out of the lineup.

This team is dying for some legitimate secondary scoring. I really could care less whether or not that scoring comes from a gritty power forward type, or a perimeter skill player. We need it, and need it badly. Still, I look at this team and have to wonder whether or not it's wise to spend assets to acquire those pieces.

Would I welcome Ray Whitney, Alex Frolov, or David Backes to the team? Sure. But are any of those guys going to make us cup contenders? Well, short of getting all of them for next to nothing, I seriously doubt it.

Frankly, I'm not holding out hope for Tortorella to turn things around. He's far too stubborn to play a conservative style and I have my doubts that this mindset will lead us to the playoffs at all, let alone beyond the 1st round.

My suggestion to Torts: Take this as a transition year. Take some of the pressure off of the players and let them adjust to your "the best defense is no defense at all" strategy. Continue to rotate rookies into the lineup for a few games here and there and learn as much as you can about our prospects. For a head coach, you're pretty damn clueless when it comes to what you have at your disposal outside of the immediate roster.

My advice to Sather: Buy low. See if you can acquire guys like the aforementioned David Backes, or perhaps Peter Mueller. Guys that have the upside but could do with a change of scenery and are members of teams that need a shakeup. We have (hopefully) 5 years of a healthy Gaborik in his prime. Aim for having the last 3 years be the ones where we really start to compete. At that point, we should be rid of a couple big contracts-- even if you can't manage to trade them away between now and then-- and our promising rookies should have had some solid NHL experience under their belts. Then you can dance in the field of free agency and add a player that will actually help us.

Just my opinion.
Didn't read your whole post- just the beginning

The backup goali is one of many problems this team has, so I don't see the problem in talking about it. Valiquette is absolutely horrible. He belongs in the minors. I have been saying this for quite some time and I don't understand how some people still think he is one of the best backups in the league. (Or now, its "he's one of the best pure backups, not former starters...) Chad johnson would def play better than Vally. They may as well call him up

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11-30-2009, 11:26 AM
  #24
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I really don't think the backup goalie is the most pressing issue here. Yeah, Vally got lit up in the 3rd, but our team was awful. If Vally was capable of keeping the team in it during a game like that, he'd be a starter somewhere, not a career backup.

We're a team with 2/3rds of a 1st line, a struggling Vezina caliber goalie, a highly overrated coach at the helm, and a very, very young defensive core. I think most people realized that this season would live and die by Gaborik's groin and how consistent Hank would be. Well, we've seen Hank is struggling again and while Gaborik has held up in terms of health, having him be shutdown by the other team isn't much different that having him out of the lineup.

This team is dying for some legitimate secondary scoring. I really could care less whether or not that scoring comes from a gritty power forward type, or a perimeter skill player. We need it, and need it badly. Still, I look at this team and have to wonder whether or not it's wise to spend assets to acquire those pieces.

Would I welcome Ray Whitney, Alex Frolov, or David Backes to the team? Sure. But are any of those guys going to make us cup contenders? Well, short of getting all of them for next to nothing, I seriously doubt it.

Frankly, I'm not holding out hope for Tortorella to turn things around. He's far too stubborn to play a conservative style and I have my doubts that this mindset will lead us to the playoffs at all, let alone beyond the 1st round.

My suggestion to Torts: Take this as a transition year. Take some of the pressure off of the players and let them adjust to your "the best defense is no defense at all" strategy. Continue to rotate rookies into the lineup for a few games here and there and learn as much as you can about our prospects. For a head coach, you're pretty damn clueless when it comes to what you have at your disposal outside of the immediate roster.

My advice to Sather: Buy low. See if you can acquire guys like the aforementioned David Backes, or perhaps Peter Mueller. Guys that have the upside but could do with a change of scenery and are members of teams that need a shakeup. We have (hopefully) 5 years of a healthy Gaborik in his prime. Aim for having the last 3 years be the ones where we really start to compete. At that point, we should be rid of a couple big contracts-- even if you can't manage to trade them away between now and then-- and our promising rookies should have had some solid NHL experience under their belts. Then you can dance in the field of free agency and add a player that will actually help us.

Just my opinion.
how dare you make a logical and well thought out post on this forum

didn't anyone tell you that the sky is falling? forget the year 2012 cause the world is ending now!

honestly though that was a very assessment of this team, its exactly where we thought it would be, lacking secondary scoring

i still see hope in the future for this team. If sather continues to develop this team in a direction (doesn't matter if you necessarily agree with the Torts direction) we will field a strong contender in the next few years, the foundation is there already

a couple things will be key:

- realizing that this is NOT a cup year and making most out of the trade deadline

- Grachev turning into the caliber of player we banking on Cheriponov becoming

- proper use of our stockpile of defensive prospects....find out which ones are going to work here and get good returns on the rest

- Gaborik staying healthy

As for this year, Im pretty sure we'll still make the playoffs and its pretty imperative that we do actually....MDZ, Gilroy, and Anisimov need to experience NHL playoffs

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11-30-2009, 11:32 AM
  #25
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Originally Posted by Shake and Bake View Post
Didn't read your whole post- just the beginning

The backup goali is one of many problems this team has, so I don't see the problem in talking about it. Valiquette is absolutely horrible. He belongs in the minors. I have been saying this for quite some time and I don't understand how some people still think he is one of the best backups in the league. (Or now, its "he's one of the best pure backups, not former starters...) Chad johnson would def play better than Vally. They may as well call him up
amen to that! I've been saying he sucks forever...now more and more people are seeing the light, finally!

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