HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Gut check for Torts

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
11-30-2009, 11:33 AM
  #26
Shake and Bake
 
Shake and Bake's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,367
vCash: 500
Read another part trxjwz,

You said Gaborik being shut down is the same as not being in the lineup?

Do you want to elaborate further on that? I'd say Gaborik has performed ok, wouldn't u?

He hasn't exactly been shut down too many times

I'd say Gaoriks production is the least of our worries, as would pretty much anyone else

Shake and Bake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 12:01 PM
  #27
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake and Bake View Post
Didn't read your whole post- just the beginning

The backup goali is one of many problems this team has, so I don't see the problem in talking about it. Valiquette is absolutely horrible. He belongs in the minors. I have been saying this for quite some time and I don't understand how some people still think he is one of the best backups in the league. (Or now, its "he's one of the best pure backups, not former starters...) Chad johnson would def play better than Vally. They may as well call him up
Vally has been a fantastic backup thus far. There's more to being a backup than just filling in for the starter when he needs a break, and he fills that role better than most. Both of our goalies got lit up over the weekend, but for whatever reason, Hank gets the benefit of the doubt and Vally is now the scape goat.

Your backup goalie is not supposed to steal games for you. Far too many people are expecting Vally to step in for Lundqvist and be Lundqvist. That's just not going to happen. Our team played like complete dog **** against Pittsburgh and Tortorella knows it. Hence the reason he "never considered" putting Hank in net during the game. It's the back-ups job to take the brunt of the shelling when the team is playing poorly. Did he let in some soft goals? Absolutely, but that's why he's a 10 game a year backup, and not a starter somewhere else.

Chad Johnson is a good young goalie, but there's no reason to call him up at this point while the team is playing like garbage. Even if he does play well, no goalie was going to steal that game for us on Saturday. Not to mention you really have no idea whether or not he'll be better than Vally. That's just guessing on your part.

Our starter isn't playing well and people are pointing the finger at our backup? It's scapegoating and nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake and Bake View Post
Read another part trxjwz,

You said Gaborik being shut down is the same as not being in the lineup?

Do you want to elaborate further on that? I'd say Gaborik has performed ok, wouldn't u?

He hasn't exactly been shut down too many times

I'd say Gaoriks production is the least of our worries, as would pretty much anyone else
If Gaborik isn't scoring goals for us, nobody is. Those situations give you a picture of what our team would be like if he was out with an injury.

I'm not complaining about his production, I'm not really sure where you got that from. Gaborik is far from a problem, but the fact that he's our only scoring threat is a major problem. Far more significant than our backup goal tending situation.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 12:06 PM
  #28
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,826
vCash: 500
Our backup goalie situation is about #100 on the list of problems with this team.

Overall defensive coverage is the main concern.

Secondary scoring and some toughness on the blueline are neck and neck for the 2nd biggest issue.

Those are the main issues

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 12:21 PM
  #29
Mio41
Ron Harris #3
 
Mio41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Chad Johnson is a good young goalie, but there's no reason to call him up at this point while the team is playing like garbage.
I disagree, just bring him up to jumpstart the team, the team will play better defense because he is a rookie, something has to be done before this gets totally out of hand, and sorry but I agree Valiquette is horrible, it's not our main problem but it's a big problem, what if Hank gets hurt?

Mio41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 12:38 PM
  #30
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
I disagree, just bring him up to jumpstart the team, the team will play better defense because he is a rookie, something has to be done before this gets totally out of hand, and sorry but I agree Valiquette is horrible, it's not our main problem but it's a big problem, what if Hank gets hurt?
Getting rid of a backup goalie to bring in a rookie is going to jumpstart the team? That's just not going to happen. Do you really think this team is going to suddenly play better D because a rookie is in net? If Vally was so horrible, why wouldn't they tighten up because of it? That's the same reasoning you're applying to Johnson, right?

If Hank gets hurt, our season is done. I don't care if you call up Johnson or not. If our Vezina candidate goalie is getting lit up with the team as it is now, no back-up in the world is going to fix it. Unless of course you consider Roberto Luongo a backup goalie.

I'm just not sure why people think throwing a rookie into this cluster **** is a good idea. Sure, let's bring up a promising prospect so he can get lit up for 5+ goals for a few games. That'll be great for his confidence. I mean, hell, he just got his game going in Hartford, we really ought to take him down a peg or two.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 12:51 PM
  #31
Mio41
Ron Harris #3
 
Mio41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Getting rid of a backup goalie to bring in a rookie is going to jumpstart the team? That's just not going to happen. Do you really think this team is going to suddenly play better D because a rookie is in net? If Vally was so horrible, why wouldn't they tighten up because of it? That's the same reasoning you're applying to Johnson, right?

If Hank gets hurt, our season is done. I don't care if you call up Johnson or not. If our Vezina candidate goalie is getting lit up with the team as it is now, no back-up in the world is going to fix it. Unless of course you consider Roberto Luongo a backup goalie.

I'm just not sure why people think throwing a rookie into this cluster **** is a good idea. Sure, let's bring up a promising prospect so he can get lit up for 5+ goals for a few games. That'll be great for his confidence. I mean, hell, he just got his game going in Hartford, we really ought to take him down a peg or two.

This team is listless..they need something extraordinary to wake them up, like trading Drury..or sitting Hank temporarily...Do you really think this team is going to suddenly play better D because a rookie is in net? Yes

Mio41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 12:57 PM
  #32
Mio41
Ron Harris #3
 
Mio41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Getting rid of a backup goalie to bring in a rookie is going to jumpstart the team? That's just not going to happen. Do you really think this team is going to suddenly play better D because a rookie is in net? If Vally was so horrible, why wouldn't they tighten up because of it? That's the same reasoning you're applying to Johnson, right?

If Hank gets hurt, our season is done. I don't care if you call up Johnson or not. If our Vezina candidate goalie is getting lit up with the team as it is now, no back-up in the world is going to fix it. Unless of course you consider Roberto Luongo a backup goalie.

I'm just not sure why people think throwing a rookie into this cluster **** is a good idea. Sure, let's bring up a promising prospect so he can get lit up for 5+ goals for a few games. That'll be great for his confidence. I mean, hell, he just got his game going in Hartford, we really ought to take him down a peg or two.

By the way obviously this team has many problems not just at goaltending, defensive zone coverage, no offensive zone pressure, toughness, coaching...but it still is a problem nonetheless....

Mio41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:08 PM
  #33
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,468
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
This team is listless..they need something extraordinary to wake them up, like trading Drury..or sitting Hank temporarily...Do you really think this team is going to suddenly play better D because a rookie is in net? Yes
No, I do not think that will suddenly make them play better defense.

__________________

It's just pain.
nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:11 PM
  #34
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,048
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
This team is listless..they need something extraordinary to wake them up, like trading Drury..or sitting Hank temporarily...Do you really think this team is going to suddenly play better D because a rookie is in net? Yes
We'll agree to disagree then. I can't think of an instance where that happened in the past, but I suppose anything is possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
By the way obviously this team has many problems not just at goaltending, defensive zone coverage, no offensive zone pressure, toughness, coaching...but it still is a problem nonetheless....
Like I said, it's a problem, but hardly the most pressing one. You don't fix a nose bleed before you treat a gunshot wound.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:12 PM
  #35
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
No, I do not think that will suddenly make them play better defense.
Neither do I.

The defensive problem is not an issue of effort, where starting your AHL goaltender will suddenly "spark" them.

Its a fundamental issue. This is just a bad defensive team right now...probably because the coach doesnt care much about that side of the game.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:22 PM
  #36
GWOW
Two Pucks, One Cup
 
GWOW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 17,004
vCash: 500
Anyway, I wouldnt give up on the season just yet. It's not like they are getting outshot 40-20 every night like the Isles.

They are only a few games removed from solid back-to-back games. I remember in 1993 the Rangers went into the Igloo and destroyed the Pens like 11-1 or 10-1. That year, the Pens won 57 games and the Rangers missed the playoffs.

The Rangers have always had month-long stretches of ineptitude and still end up figuring it out.

I'm not worried. I'm just glad the young guys are getting key mins and the scrubs are getting exposed.

Torts is nothing special and kind of a clown, but I actually dont mind looking at his face on the bench when the team implodes as much as I did with Renney, who used to make me wanna jump out of a building

GWOW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:27 PM
  #37
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scipio Africanus View Post
Anyway, I wouldnt give up on the season just yet. It's not like they are getting outshot 40-20 every night like the Isles.

They are only a few games removed from solid back-to-back games. I remember in 1993 the Rangers went into the Igloo and destroyed the Pens like 11-1 or 10-1. That year, the Pens won 57 games and the Rangers missed the playoffs.

The Rangers have always had month-long stretches of ineptitude and still end up figuring it out.

I'm not worried. I'm just glad the young guys are getting key mins and the scrubs are getting exposed.

Torts is nothing special and kind of a clown, but I actually dont mind looking at his face on the bench when the team implodes as much as I did with Renney, who used to make me wanna jump out of a building
Other than the final couple weeks when it was clear the team had quit on Renney and his system, how many times did his team "implode"

I could probably count them on one hand.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:29 PM
  #38
SomebodySaveKreider
Registered User
 
SomebodySaveKreider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,549
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Or else what?
Or else its gonna be a LOOOOOOOOONG season.

SomebodySaveKreider is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:41 PM
  #39
Mio41
Ron Harris #3
 
Mio41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Like I said, it's a problem, but hardly the most pressing one. You don't fix a nose bleed before you treat a gunshot wound.

Unfortunately this team is like a ship taking on water in 6 different spots...offense, defense, toughness, stupid penalties, poor coaching, average goaltending, always changing lines...

Mio41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:45 PM
  #40
Mio41
Ron Harris #3
 
Mio41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
No, I do not think that will suddenly make them play better defense.
All I'm saying is something has to be done, maybe drastically, to stop this snowball from running downhill...

Mio41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:50 PM
  #41
BOXPLAY
Registered User
 
BOXPLAY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 94
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BOXPLAY
calling Valiquette a fantastic backup is borderline ********. In the

Renney system he was able to stick around because of the defensive

style and he still was garbage. Is Valiquette the problem we need to

fix right now NO. The Rangers have plenty of problems they need

fixed starting with secondary scoring not bringing up a rookie goalie

who is getting his feet wet

BOXPLAY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:51 PM
  #42
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,468
vCash: 50
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
All I'm saying is something has to be done, maybe drastically, to stop this snowball from running downhill...
I agree. I do not think promoting Johnson would do it though. Who knows, I suppose crazier things have happened.

nyr2k2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 01:53 PM
  #43
Mio41
Ron Harris #3
 
Mio41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Long Island
Country: United States
Posts: 2,773
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I agree. I do not think promoting Johnson would do it though. Who knows, I suppose crazier things have happened.
Maybe sit Drury?

Mio41 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 02:00 PM
  #44
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 30,352
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
Maybe sit Drury?
For whom?

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 02:36 PM
  #45
Jeds2StepOpus
Registered User
 
Jeds2StepOpus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 893
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Both of our goalies got lit up over the weekend, but for whatever reason, Hank gets the benefit of the doubt and Vally is now the scape goat.

Your backup goalie is not supposed to steal games for you.


Our starter isn't playing well and people are pointing the finger at our backup? It's scapegoating and nothing more.



If Gaborik isn't scoring goals for us, nobody is. Those situations give you a picture of what our team would be like if he was out with an injury.

I'm not complaining about his production, I'm not really sure where you got that from. Gaborik is far from a problem, but the fact that he's our only scoring threat is a major problem. Far more significant than our backup goal tending situation.

Absolutely on the money.

Also add a huge gaping hole in the defensive forwards roles.

As well as a desperate void of legitimate, tough, smart vetern d-men on the blueline; to help the kids

Jeds2StepOpus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 03:15 PM
  #46
OverTheCap
Registered User
 
OverTheCap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,887
vCash: 500
I agree that worrying about our back-up is far down on the list of priorities, although the beat writers tend to make a big deal of it.

However, the role of the back-up is more important this year than in year's past, solely because Henrik is supposed to get more rest due to the Olympics. But if Torts loses confidence in Vally and he continues to play poorly, Lundqvist will have to start more games than planned. A minor issue but could be problematic post-Olympic break when this team is fighting for a playoff spot and Lundqvist is tired... we all saw what happened in 2006.

OverTheCap is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 03:18 PM
  #47
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,409
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
I think it's time for a new captain, someone to hold these guys accountable, also I would bring Chad Johnson up and let him start tonight, shake things up, this team is dead in the water!
Waaaa? Gotta go back with Hank, he is our franchise player. If we are going to turn it around it starts with him.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 03:20 PM
  #48
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,409
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I really don't think the backup goalie is the most pressing issue here. Yeah, Vally got lit up in the 3rd, but our team was awful. If Vally was capable of keeping the team in it during a game like that, he'd be a starter somewhere, not a career backup.

We're a team with 2/3rds of a 1st line, a struggling Vezina caliber goalie, a highly overrated coach at the helm, and a very, very young defensive core. I think most people realized that this season would live and die by Gaborik's groin and how consistent Hank would be. Well, we've seen Hank is struggling again and while Gaborik has held up in terms of health, having him be shutdown by the other team isn't much different that having him out of the lineup.

This team is dying for some legitimate secondary scoring. I really could care less whether or not that scoring comes from a gritty power forward type, or a perimeter skill player. We need it, and need it badly. Still, I look at this team and have to wonder whether or not it's wise to spend assets to acquire those pieces.

Would I welcome Ray Whitney, Alex Frolov, or David Backes to the team? Sure. But are any of those guys going to make us cup contenders? Well, short of getting all of them for next to nothing, I seriously doubt it.

Frankly, I'm not holding out hope for Tortorella to turn things around. He's far too stubborn to play a conservative style and I have my doubts that this mindset will lead us to the playoffs at all, let alone beyond the 1st round.

My suggestion to Torts: Take this as a transition year. Take some of the pressure off of the players and let them adjust to your "the best defense is no defense at all" strategy. Continue to rotate rookies into the lineup for a few games here and there and learn as much as you can about our prospects. For a head coach, you're pretty damn clueless when it comes to what you have at your disposal outside of the immediate roster.

My advice to Sather: Buy low. See if you can acquire guys like the aforementioned David Backes, or perhaps Peter Mueller. Guys that have the upside but could do with a change of scenery and are members of teams that need a shakeup. We have (hopefully) 5 years of a healthy Gaborik in his prime. Aim for having the last 3 years be the ones where we really start to compete. At that point, we should be rid of a couple big contracts-- even if you can't manage to trade them away between now and then-- and our promising rookies should have had some solid NHL experience under their belts. Then you can dance in the field of free agency and add a player that will actually help us.

Just my opinion.
Good post trx but how do you know Backes is available? I would be very excited to get him. Talk about getting what the doctor ordered.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 03:22 PM
  #49
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,409
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
All I'm saying is something has to be done, maybe drastically, to stop this snowball from running downhill...
I'm not saying things look great right now but after all in reality it's only a 2 game losing streak. Don't make it out like we're in the basement with no hope. They manage points in the next couple of games we are in the thick of it.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
11-30-2009, 03:25 PM
  #50
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,409
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mio41 View Post
Maybe sit Drury?
You realize he just came back from being knocked silly yes? He wasn't out very long for a guy who had bad concussion symptoms so i'm willing to give the captain a couple more games to get his game back. And whats all this about his weekend being ruined stuff? It's not just you I seen make this comment, did I miss something with Drury and a weekend thing in the news?

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:04 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.