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Old
11-30-2009, 06:22 PM
  #51
tuckrr
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i would jump on coburn+hartnell for ryan
dont get me wrong, i love those guys...but its bobby ****ing ryan. hes pretty ****ing good.

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11-30-2009, 06:34 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
i would jump on coburn+hartnell for ryan
dont get me wrong, i love those guys...but its bobby ****ing ryan. hes pretty ****ing good.
I would jump in Coburn + Hartnell for Ryan + 1st/2nd. Even then I'd feel guilty doing it.

Coburn and Hartnell is a lot to give up for just Ryan quite frankly.

I'd rather trade Carle than Coburn at the moment as well though I could see their value being similar.

None of this of course means that it could ever happen...

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Old
11-30-2009, 09:10 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by tuckrr View Post
i would jump on coburn+hartnell for ryan
dont get me wrong, i love those guys...but its bobby ****ing ryan. hes pretty ****ing good.
Centering around one or the other...maybe, both? No way, not unless we are getting something else significant back.

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11-30-2009, 10:11 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Centering around one or the other...maybe, both? No way, not unless we are getting something else significant back.
I am pretty sure Bobby Ryan counts as something significant. And even if it were Hartnell/Coburn, don't expect to get any picks in return, possibly expect to give up more.

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12-01-2009, 12:41 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by flountown View Post
I am pretty sure Bobby Ryan counts as something significant. And even if it were Hartnell/Coburn, don't expect to get any picks in return, possibly expect to give up more.
Bobby Ryan is without a doubt a very significant and promising player. Re-read what I wrote, getting something else, as in addition. Hartnell on the other hand is filling a gritty need in front of the net that no one else really possesses on this team.

Let's not overvalue one player and devalue our own, Hartnell is significant himself, albeit for different reasons.

We can agree to disagree, but it's not a home run. If you wanted to seal the deal by throwing even more in, you'd be risking a whole lot for one player to come into superstar fruition.

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12-01-2009, 06:56 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Bobby Ryan is without a doubt a very significant and promising player. Re-read what I wrote, getting something else, as in addition. Hartnell on the other hand is filling a gritty need in front of the net that no one else really possesses on this team.

Let's not overvalue one player and devalue our own, Hartnell is significant himself, albeit for different reasons.

We can agree to disagree, but it's not a home run. If you wanted to seal the deal by throwing even more in, you'd be risking a whole lot for one player to come into superstar fruition.
Honestly, I don't think any of these deals will happen, but I am 100% sure that we would be giving up more than people here suspenct. Imagine what we'd ask for to trade JVR, apply that logic t see what we'd need to get Bobby Ryan.

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Old
12-01-2009, 07:23 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I would jump in Coburn + Hartnell for Ryan + 1st/2nd. Even then I'd feel guilty doing it.

Coburn and Hartnell is a lot to give up for just Ryan quite frankly.

I'd rather trade Carle than Coburn at the moment as well though I could see their value being similar.

None of this of course means that it could ever happen...
Sorry, but you're way wrong on that one. The Ducks would just as soon eat dirt rather than give up Bobby Ryan and a first for Coburn and Hartnell. Don't get me wrong, Coburn and Hartnell are fine players, and I like them personality wise, but no, it wouldn't even be something a reasonable GM would offer. Maybe toss in a prospect or two and remove the pick from Anaheim or better yet, Coburn, Hartnell, 2nd round pick for B Ryan and 5th round pick.

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Old
12-01-2009, 07:51 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Sorry, but you're way wrong on that one. The Ducks would just as soon eat dirt rather than give up Bobby Ryan and a first for Coburn and Hartnell. Don't get me wrong, Coburn and Hartnell are fine players, and I like them personality wise, but no, it wouldn't even be something a reasonable GM would offer. Maybe toss in a prospect or two and remove the pick from Anaheim or better yet, Coburn, Hartnell, 2nd round pick for B Ryan and 5th round pick.
Are you kidding me? You know this is his second year right? For a 1st/2nd line player who averages about between 50-60 points and a 1st/2nd pairing defensemen just for B. Ryan? Thats overpayment to the max. Your overrated Ryan WAY to much here.

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Old
12-01-2009, 07:59 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
Are you kidding me? You know this is his second year right? For a 1st/2nd line player who averages about between 50-60 points and a 1st/2nd pairing defensemen just for B. Ryan? Thats overpayment to the max. Your overrated Ryan WAY to much here.
Let's say you will be proven wrong within 2 years and we both know it. The ceiling on Bobby Ryan is one of the ten highest in the league right now, maybe top five. He's still improving every week overall game wise, early scoring slump aside. The whole Ducks team has been in disarray, so his numbers have taken a hit. If you honestly think what you said is true, you're living somewhere I never want to be.

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12-01-2009, 08:08 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Let's say you will be proven wrong within 2 years and we both know it. The ceiling on Bobby Ryan is one of the ten highest in the league right now, maybe top five. He's still improving every week overall game wise, early scoring slump aside. The whole Ducks team has been in disarray, so his numbers have taken a hit. If you honestly think what you said is true, you're living somewhere I never want to be.
So... two proven NHLers, who bring a ton to a team, for a second year rookie? Of course he has a higher sealing, but teams dont go trading away top pairing defensemen and top line forwards for just a guy with potential. In the NHL, teams dont trade away players who are good and established for unestablished rookies.

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12-01-2009, 08:11 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by sa cyred View Post
So... two proven NHLers, who bring a ton to a team, for a second year rookie? Of course he has a higher sealing, but teams dont go trading away top pairing defensemen and top line forwards for just a guy with potential. In the NHL, teams dont trade away players who are good and established for unestablished rookies.
Ok, to some extent, you're right. But consider that the Ducks organization would get destroyed by their fans if they did that after touting him so highly. Short term, Coburn and Hartnell would be the safe bet to improve a team more, sure.

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Old
12-01-2009, 08:13 AM
  #62
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I can't see any way in the world we acquire Bobby Ryan. We wouldn't want to give up what it would take to get him.

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Old
12-01-2009, 08:17 AM
  #63
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Who is this Bobby Ryan that you speak of?

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Old
12-01-2009, 08:18 AM
  #64
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Hartnell and Coburn for Ryan? In a cap world, I'd do it. Give Ryan $5 and sign him longterm.

Gagne-Richards-Briere
JVR-Carter-Ryan
Pyorala-Giroux-Asham
Carcillo-Betts-Lappy

Carle-Pronger
Parent-Timonen
Bartulis-Tolly/someone

Emery
Boucher

then increase Carter to $6.5 and give Giroux the rest of Gagne's money, keep Emery. In a cap world, we can't expect to carry 2 injury prone forwards in Gagne and Briere. Too much tied up in 2 guys who will never get close to 75 games again, especially as they get older.

It works out, but barely.

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Old
12-01-2009, 08:47 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donGjohnson View Post
Let's say you will be proven wrong within 2 years and we both know it. The ceiling on Bobby Ryan is one of the ten highest in the league right now, maybe top five. He's still improving every week overall game wise, early scoring slump aside. The whole Ducks team has been in disarray, so his numbers have taken a hit. If you honestly think what you said is true, you're living somewhere I never want to be.
I think you are overrating Ryan just a little bit. I think he will become a very good goalscorer in this league. But to say that he will be a top 10 or even top 5 player in this league is a little ridiculous...especially coming from the wing position. He'd have to be ****ing amazing both offensively and defensively to be considered top 10 in my book.

A 30 goal-scorer with grit (think Corey Perry-lite), and a potential top pairing D-man is a lot to pay for 2nd year winger who hasn't set the world on fire this season. TBH, if we are giving up Coburn, I'd rather go after someone like Setoguchi, but I don't see that happening either.

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Old
12-01-2009, 09:23 AM
  #66
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Carter for Ryan and a 2nd rounder.
At the deadline: 2nd and Laliberte/Nodl for Nolan (UFA)



Gagne - Richards - Ryan
JVR - Briere - Nolan
Hartnell - Giroux - Legein (I know but I love his game)
Carcillo - Betts - Laperriere

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Parent - Bartulis

Emery
Boucher


Hello lord Stanley



Ducks probably wouldn't do this tho

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Old
12-01-2009, 12:26 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
This deal is not going to happen, but if a similar deal occurs, it will be after the season. Draft day?

Carle or Coburn since we likely have to move one of them.
+
Maroon/Offensive prospect
+
Pick

for

Ryan
+
Pick

That still doesn't happen. I think that if we were going to try to pick up a young, talented winger like Ryan who we will commit to salary wise long-term we'd have to move Gagne somehow. Otherwise there's no reason to make a move on this long-term.

Bold denotes new contract.

vanRiemsdyk - Carter - Briere
Hartnell - Richards - xxx
Ryan - Giroux - Powe
Carcillo - Betts - Laperriere

Timonen - Parent
Carle/Coburn - Pronger
Bartulis - xxx

It's not going to happen guys.
I really wish this team would get Giroux in the top 6. This guy needs to be with skilled players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Gagne and Carle likely will be moved.
I really dont want to move Gagne.

Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
Bobby Ryan is without a doubt a very significant and promising player. Re-read what I wrote, getting something else, as in addition. Hartnell on the other hand is filling a gritty need in front of the net that no one else really possesses on this team.

Let's not overvalue one player and devalue our own, Hartnell is significant himself, albeit for different reasons.

We can agree to disagree, but it's not a home run. If you wanted to seal the deal by throwing even more in, you'd be risking a whole lot for one player to come into superstar fruition.
I completely agree on Hartnell. He plays a specific role on this team, one that no one else on the roster can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomark View Post
Carter for Ryan and a 2nd rounder.
At the deadline: 2nd and Laliberte/Nodl for Nolan (UFA)



Gagne - Richards - Ryan
JVR - Briere - Nolan
Hartnell - Giroux - Legein (I know but I love his game)
Carcillo - Betts - Laperriere

Pronger - Carle
Timonen - Coburn
Parent - Bartulis

Emery
Boucher


Hello lord Stanley



Ducks probably wouldn't do this tho
I would love Nolan as a playoff rental, but I dont want to move Carter for Ryan. I am not 100% against trading Carter for the right package and going with Richards/Giroux in the middle, but not for Ryan straight up.

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12-01-2009, 01:20 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I would love Nolan as a playoff rental, but I dont want to move Carter for Ryan. I am not 100% against trading Carter for the right package and going with Richards/Giroux in the middle, but not for Ryan straight up.
You might be right about there being better packages for Carter out there. Maybe I'm underestimating his value around the NHL. I just don't feel he is good enough to be a centerpiece in a cup aspiring team. Maybe as a scorer on the wing in a less important role. He will always put up good numbers. I was just speculating about the best way to obtain Ryan. He is a great talent and would not come cheap. I agree with you that Hartnell is very important and I'd rather move Carter than the Hartnell/Coburn package someone suggested..

My point was; although the Richards/Carter tandem is good, we should focus on depth as the top teams have better offensive top end talent. Thornton/Heatley, Crosby/Malkin, Ovechkin/Bäckström Datsyuk/Zetterberg etc..

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Old
12-01-2009, 01:26 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Lomark View Post
You might be right about there being better packages for Carter out there. Maybe I'm underestimating his value around the NHL. I just don't feel he is good enough to be a centerpiece in a cup aspiring team. Maybe as a scorer on the wing in a less important role. He will always put up good numbers. I was just speculating about the best way to obtain Ryan. He is a great talent and would not come cheap. I agree with you that Hartnell is very important and I'd rather move Carter than the Hartnell/Coburn package someone suggested..

My point was; although the Richards/Carter tandem is good, we should focus on depth as the top teams have better offensive top end talent. Thornton/Heatley, Crosby/Malkin, Ovechkin/Bäckström Datsyuk/Zetterberg etc..
Honestly, I think this team is deadline tinkering (and health) away from being a cup contender from a player standpoint.....I think the issue is more coaching and systemic.

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Old
12-01-2009, 01:39 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
Honestly, I think this team is deadline tinkering (and health) away from being a cup contender from a player standpoint.....I think the issue is more coaching and systemic.
Agreed. I just suck at english and have trouble getting my point across. If we move Carter for Ryan+ we can use that + at the deadline for a good rental. And at the same time make room for Giroux/Briere at center and save some cap room for next season.

Edit - What kind of salary do you think Ryan would ask? 3.5? 4.0?

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Old
12-01-2009, 01:54 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikedifr View Post
I would love Nolan as a playoff rental, but I dont want to move Carter for Ryan. I am not 100% against trading Carter for the right package and going with Richards/Giroux in the middle, but not for Ryan straight up.
Are you talking about the coach or the player?

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Old
12-01-2009, 01:58 PM
  #72
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Jones, Cote, Hartnell, ???, Downie. Who's that 4th pottymouth?

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Old
12-01-2009, 04:36 PM
  #73
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Ryan and Sbisa
for
Carter and MA Bourdon

or

Ryan and Niedermeyer
for
Carter and Carle

Highly unlikely, but could be interesting.

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Old
12-02-2009, 09:15 AM
  #74
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A season trade might happen if the Ducks struggle, as they currently sit seeded 13th in the West. If the season goes on and they feel they can't break into the playoffs, they will not trade Ryan and probably look to ship out contracts like Giggy and Selanne. If they want to make a very large push, Ryan might be had close to the deadline if the Flyers overpay like 2 picks/pick and a prospect, Coburn/Carle, and Briere/top offensive player. Even during the off-season it is doubtful a trade would happen since they have some very good young forwards to build around and the long term value might not be there short of moving him for some sure things (a player like Carter) and a top draft pick. It might just be very difficult to get Ryan until the Ducks can't afford to keep him and even then other teams might be able to offer more.

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