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Brooks Orpik wanted to be a Ranger

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Old
12-02-2009, 08:28 AM
  #51
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Larry Brooks is certainly in the know more so than me here...But I remember lots of talk that Orpik actually took lees money to stay in Pitt. I remember hearing and reading that Sather had upped the offer for him, but Orpik chose to stay in Pitt for a better chance at a cup.

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12-02-2009, 08:29 AM
  #52
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i keep reading these posts about how the team is getting so upset with torts. People are almost trying to paint a picture of a revolution brewing in the locker room against him

im starting to realize that this is nothing more than posters being upset that the team is not winning and pretending that the team is sharing their disdain for the coaching situation...which is delusional


Start showing me quotes, even from "anonymous" players, that even hint that this is really the situation

but there are none...all we have is Dagoon claiming that the word on the street is that Henrik is pissed at Torts, and offdacrossbar claiming "this thing with Torts is real" and then going to list all the reasons for his own personal dislike of the situation

just because we don't know the full details of what goes on in the locker room and what went on with the lisin benching doesn't mean the team didnt know. If you ask me, Torts' interview made it sound like there was actually some pretty specific things that Lisin and Kotalik were asked to do and have not done. They weren't being benched for not putting up gaborik-like points, it sounds a lot like they have been repeat offenders of a specific issue that has been addressed to the team.

people need to cool down, be less delusional, and realize that its early in the season, we have a mediocre team, this a very transitional year in both terms of players and philosophy

we have a lot of things to build on with this team as well as some things to correct. Despite the apparently proven "fact" that the team despises Torts and is going to quit on him tomorrow, the future of this team is actually really bright

but don't listen to me, im an optimist and the teams in a slump, that's like treason right?

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12-02-2009, 08:30 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
I Hate to say I told you so but I did, Torts is a bully and a liar. He is outdated and the NHL has passed him by. The Rangers are in a free fall and missing the playoff. WE have a GM in a time warp and a coach that is a a-hole this is worse then it ever was under Renney
I love how you'll literally jump on and believe anything bad about the coach/players you dont like. "SEE IT'S NOT JUST ME!!! DO YOU SEE GUYS???!!!"

talk about Brooks taking some artistic license:

"Knowing that Lisin is an extremely popular player within the room who, not at all unimportantly, had played through a stretch of games with a broken bone in his instep a few weeks ago—some might call it a broken foot—it’s not at all a stretch to suggest the move was not appreciated by No. 81’s teammates."

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12-02-2009, 08:34 AM
  #54
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Orpik > Komisarek.

I wanted Slats to sign Komisarek this year (since Orpik re-signed with the Pens), but Komi gets like 100 PIM a night... how hard is it to have a physical D in your system?

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12-02-2009, 08:43 AM
  #55
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Yah know, what is so insanely hard about Tortorella's system that these players can't play it.

It basically boils down to "don't sit back and play defense all the time like Renney did", which is what the players clamored for last year.

Hell, most teams in the league play a system where they can be effective on offense as well as on defense. What makes this team and these players so different that they just can't possibly play the same kind of game that 75% of the league plays?

I call ********.

Why can't forwards forecheck hard? You don't even have to go smashing guys, you just have to get into their face and into the passing lanes. Force turnovers.

Why can't players get back on defense? Everyone else does it. Why can't forwards cover for the defensemen when they pinch? This is basic hockey (admittedly they've been better lately).

More importantly, why can't forwards actually help out on the breakout instead of flying the zone early and the meandering around in the neutral zone while their defense desperately looks for a pass to make before the other team out mans them and takes the puck away? Why can't forwards figure out how to play simple dump and chase hockey?

All things that are a problem, all things that Tortorella has tried to get them to play, but so far the players just refuse to get it. Maybe it's just something that takes time with a team that had so much turnover, but Tortorella really isn't doing anything terribly revolutionary here that these players shouldn't be able to do.

edit: and I'd be more inclined to blame the coaching for the players not getting it if the players weren't underachieving so ******* hard and ****ing Marian Gaborik and Vinny Prospal can at least understand how to play some defense while contributing on offense

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12-02-2009, 08:44 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mullichicken25 View Post
i keep reading these posts about how the team is getting so upset with torts. People are almost trying to paint a picture of a revolution brewing in the locker room against him

im starting to realize that this is nothing more than posters being upset that the team is not winning and pretending that the team is sharing their disdain for the coaching situation...which is delusional


Start showing me quotes, even from "anonymous" players, that even hint that this is really the situation

but there are none...all we have is Dagoon claiming that the word on the street is that Henrik is pissed at Torts, and offdacrossbar claiming "this thing with Torts is real" and then going to list all the reasons for his own personal dislike of the situation

just because we don't know the full details of what goes on in the locker room and what went on with the lisin benching doesn't mean the team didnt know. If you ask me, Torts' interview made it sound like there was actually some pretty specific things that Lisin and Kotalik were asked to do and have not done. They weren't being benched for not putting up gaborik-like points, it sounds a lot like they have been repeat offenders of a specific issue that has been addressed to the team.

people need to cool down, be less delusional, and realize that its early in the season, we have a mediocre team, this a very transitional year in both terms of players and philosophy

we have a lot of things to build on with this team as well as some things to correct. Despite the apparently proven "fact" that the team despises Torts and is going to quit on him tomorrow, the future of this team is actually really bright

but don't listen to me, im an optimist and the teams in a slump, that's like treason right?
if this team wins 5 in a row, im sure alot of this stuff goes away. but not all.

i dont like the way torts is handling things recently. this team is flawed way beyond lame attempts to embarrass individual players.

torts needs to look in the mirror and ask why are all my forwards struggling at the same time ? hes the boss. he needs to lead. making an example out of a player or players only goes so far. he needs to make some changes as well.

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12-02-2009, 08:51 AM
  #57
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Like what? What needs to change?

Name it

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Old
12-02-2009, 08:52 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Yah know, what is so insanely hard about Tortorella's system that these players can't play it.

It basically boils down to "don't sit back and play defense all the time like Renney did", which is what the players clamored for last year.

Hell, most teams in the league play a system where they can be effective on offense as well as on defense. What makes this team and these players so different that they just can't possibly play the same kind of game that 75% of the league plays?

I call ********.


Why can't forwards forecheck hard? You don't even have to go smashing guys, you just have to get into their face and into the passing lanes. Force turnovers.

Why can't players get back on defense? Everyone else does it. Why can't forwards cover for the defensemen when they pinch? This is basic hockey (admittedly they've been better lately).

More importantly, why can't forwards actually help out on the breakout instead of flying the zone early and the meandering around in the neutral zone while their defense desperately looks for a pass to make before the other team out mans them and takes the puck away? Why can't forwards figure out how to play simple dump and chase hockey?

All things that are a problem, all things that Tortorella has tried to get them to play, but so far the players just refuse to get it. Maybe it's just something that takes time with a team that had so much turnover, but Tortorella really isn't doing anything terribly revolutionary here that these players shouldn't be able to do.

edit: and I'd be more inclined to blame the coaching for the players not getting it if the players weren't underachieving so ******* hard and ****ing Marian Gaborik and Vinny Prospal can at least understand how to play some defense while contributing on offense
YES! YES! YES!

I dont see any clear structure out there when Im watching this team. The excuses about how this team hasnt yet learned the system are mindnumbingly inaccurate. Its not a tough concept. Go, go, go. Skate hard, press the offensive end, so you dont need to worry about defense. Theyre certainly getting the not worrying about defense part right, thats for sure.

If you had to rank it on a scale of 10, Tortorella is 8 parts motivator and 2 parts hockey mind. When you have a team laden with talent, motivation is usually all they need. When you have a team like the Rangers, a bit more responsibility might help the situation. This team has been caught playing pond hockey for the last 6 weeks and its just not equipped for it.

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Old
12-02-2009, 08:57 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
YES! YES! YES!

I dont see any clear structure out there when Im watching this team. The excuses about how this team hasnt yet learned the system are mindnumbingly inaccurate. Its not a tough concept. Go, go, go. Skate hard, press the offensive end, so you dont need to worry about defense. Theyre certainly getting the not worrying about defense part right, thats for sure.

If you had to rank it on a scale of 10, Tortorella is 8 parts motivator and 2 parts hockey mind. When you have a team laden with talent, motivation is usually all they need. When you have a team like the Rangers, a bit more responsibility might help the situation. This team has been caught playing pond hockey for the last 6 weeks and its just not equipped for it.
to be fair, there were a bunch of games in that times span where we comepltely dominated a team only to walk away empty handed after a few bounces went their way...the most recent example of this was last game against Pitt, and their one of the better teams in the league

people are over exaggerating how the team has played based on the record and a few real ugly games

a team can play a good game AND lose, its hockey, it happens, we're just not getting the breaks right now

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12-02-2009, 09:02 AM
  #60
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^^^ I think other teams tightened things up and made it harder for the Rangers. They also started sending their forwards behind the Rangers D in the neutral zone, so that with the Rangers trying to be really aggressive, they'd get caught by stretch passes. I think Tortorella pulled them back a little on that to stop the stretch passes from working...I don't know, maybe he pulled in the forwards as well, but it seems to me that it's more like the forwards timing is all off...their dumpins aren't timed well so that linemates can get in there and forecheck before the other team has already moved the puck. Their attacks aren't coordinated that well, as too often they just try to take it down the boards and get knocked off the puck.

So, eh...I think they were a little too aggressive at the start of the season and other teams were starting to take advantage of that. Now they seem stuck with trying to figure out an effective balance and with playing well together as linemates. A whole lot could be explained by saying they're are so many new players they haven't figured out how to play together, but it's hard to tell if that's a cop out at this point or legitimate

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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you had to rank it on a scale of 10, Tortorella is 8 parts motivator and 2 parts hockey mind. When you have a team laden with talent, motivation is usually all they need. When you have a team like the Rangers, a bit more responsibility might help the situation. This team has been caught playing pond hockey for the last 6 weeks and its just not equipped for it.
That's supposedly why he has Sullivan as assistant coach...to help with the details, and he's supposedly good at that.

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people are over exaggerating how the team has played based on the record and a few real ugly games
This is true as well. They're not playing completely awful, just not quite getting things done offensively and then someone makes a mistake and the other team scores because Lundqvist isn't playing well.

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12-02-2009, 09:05 AM
  #61
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So Renney wasn't good enough and now Tortorella isn't good enough. Bring in a third coach and he probably won't be good enough.

Something tells me it doesn't matter who's in charge of these guys, and that the players are the ones to examine.

I don't agree with showing up and benching the guy who was playing through a broken foot, but the rest is just primadonna whining from the crew.

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12-02-2009, 09:13 AM
  #62
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I think there is an important distinction between a player
"wanting to be a Ranger" and a player
"willing to come to New York for the right price".

I am willing to bet Orpik was in the latter category more than the former and that signing him under those conditions would have been practically impossible to do so.

Nevertheless, it's a silly time to bring in last summer as it is not relevant to what is going on with the team at the very moment.

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12-02-2009, 09:15 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Like what? What needs to change?

Name it
1. bench rozy. call up heikkenin and see what he brings. from what i read hes ready and has a mature 2 way game. rozy is brutal. and please for the love of god, take him off he pp.

2. penalties. this team takes too many bad penalties. i would make those players accountable. thats whats killing this team, not to mention our best offensive players play the pk as well which is taxing them. take gabby off the pk. leave the pk to boyle, drury, higgins and callahan.

3. over playing the top dogs. the 1st line cant dominate if they are gassed. torts plays those guys way too much. why is gaby playing a ton in a blowout game ? killing penalties. prospal 23 minutes ?? you friken kidding me.

4. pull it back a bit torts. if all your forwards cant score, playing a pressure games to create chances which in turn results in missed shots and turnovers, is plain stupid. time to eat some crow and dial it down a bit and play some defense. not sayin become tom renney but certainly lets change it up and take control of the neutral zone and play more conservatively given that we cannot score.

5. put kotalik back on the pp point.

6. brashear shouldnt even dress most games let alone play on the 2nd line. please stop with that.

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12-02-2009, 09:18 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
1. bench rozy. call up heikkenin and see what he brings. from what i read hes ready and has a mature 2 way game. rozy is brutal. and please for the love of god, take him off he pp.
Another rookie on the blueline is the answer?

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
2. penalties. this team takes too many bad penalties. i would make those players accountable. thats whats killing this team, not to mention our best offensive players play the pk as well which is taxing them. take gabby off the pk. leave the pk to boyle, drury, higgins and callahan.
How do you make the players accountable?


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3. over playing the top dogs. the 1st line cant dominate if they are gassed. torts plays those guys way too much. why is gaby playing a ton in a blowout game ? killing penalties. prospal 23 minutes ?? you friken kidding me.
Overplaying the only line that's producing is a mistake?

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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
4. pull it back a bit torts. if all your forwards cant score, playing a pressure games to create chances which in turn results in missed shots and turnovers, is plain stupid. time to eat some crow and dial it down a bit and play some defense. not sayin become tom renney but certainly lets change it up and take control of the neutral zone and play more conservatively given that we cannot score.
You mean like the coach last year did and was killed around here?

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5. put kotalik back on the pp point.
A given.

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6. brashear shouldnt even dress most games let alone play on the 2nd line. please stop with that.
Pick your poison: Brashear, Voros or this team getting even more pushed around then they already are.

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12-02-2009, 09:22 AM
  #65
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1. bench rozy. call up heikkenin and see what he brings. from what i read hes ready and has a mature 2 way game. rozy is brutal. and please for the love of god, take him off he pp.
Awesome, 3 rookies on defense can't possibly go wrong.

Quote:
2. penalties. this team takes too many bad penalties. i would make those players accountable. thats whats killing this team, not to mention our best offensive players play the pk as well which is taxing them. take gabby off the pk. leave the pk to boyle, drury, higgins and callahan.
Hey sounds like what Tortorella has already done, in terms of making players accountable for taking bad penalties. Oh but the fans then blamed him for disrupting the team, ruining a players confidence, etc. As for Gaborik on the PK, I like to see him out at the end of the PK but yeah he doesn't need to play a ton.

Quote:
3. over playing the top dogs. the 1st line cant dominate if they are gassed. torts plays those guys way too much. why is gaby playing a ton in a blowout game ? killing penalties. prospal 23 minutes ?? you friken kidding me.
Well, no one else is doing jack **** so you gotta play the guys who are producing...most teams do play their top players a huge amount, though. Look at the leading scorers around the league and most of them play 20-23 minutes per game. Gaborik is on the high end, but not out of the norm.

Quote:
4. pull it back a bit torts. if all your forwards cant score, playing a pressure games to create chances which in turn results in missed shots and turnovers, is plain stupid. time to eat some crow and dial it down a bit and play some defense. not sayin become tom renney but certainly lets change it up and take control of the neutral zone and play more conservatively given that we cannot score.
I think he already has pulled it back. The team isn't stepping up in the neutral zone as much as it was, forwards aren't crashing the offensive zone as much (this could also be because the forwards suck). I think the bigger problem is maintaining puck possession when they're in the offensive zone, because too often someone loses a one on one battle and the other team breaks the puck out easily because the forwards were trying to be in a position to cycle.

Quote:
5. put kotalik back on the pp point.
To be fair, he was struggling there to some degree before he was taken off. Though I do agree he should be on the PP.

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6. brashear shouldnt even dress most games let alone play on the 2nd line. please stop with that.
Fairly irrelevant in the scheme of things to this point. He played one game where he got a lot of minutes (actually only 11+ minutes) and again it's not like anyone is really obviously out playing him out there either

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12-02-2009, 09:27 AM
  #66
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So Renney wasn't good enough and now Tortorella isn't good enough. Bring in a third coach and he probably won't be good enough.

Something tells me it doesn't matter who's in charge of these guys, and that the players are the ones to examine.

I don't agree with showing up and benching the guy who was playing through a broken foot, but the rest is just primadonna whining from the crew.
Thats what a lot of us have been trying to say for about a year and a half now.

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12-02-2009, 09:36 AM
  #67
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Another rookie on the blueline is the answer?
um...... last time i check our other 2 rookies were doin pretty damn good. perhaps adding another makes us better? ya never know. what we have now aint workin all that great, is it ?

mdz has been very good and gilroy really pretty much the same. in fact, many nights those 2 are our best dmen esp. with redden being out.

if we subscribed to the " rookie dmen cant play" theory we would be alot worse off wouldnt we ?

rozy has been bad. really, whats the harm giving a guy like heik a shot?

we saw sangs, lets see heik.

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12-02-2009, 10:02 AM
  #68
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So Renney wasn't good enough and now Tortorella isn't good enough. Bring in a third coach and he probably won't be good enough.

Something tells me it doesn't matter who's in charge of these guys, and that the players are the ones to examine.
But they turned over 2/3 of the roster as well. Almost nothing is the same as it was last year, so I don't see the point in comparing what Renney did with one team and Torts did with another.

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12-02-2009, 10:07 AM
  #69
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Which came first? The chicken (the offense drying up) or the egg (Torts making questionable decisions)?

Everyone is to blame (aside from Gaborik and Prospal). You know what, we type "aside from Gaborik and Prospal" so often that we should just use an acronym. AFGAP.

AFGAP the players on this team have been offensively abysmal. And it's not helping to see Rozsival on the pp. When I see Rozsival on the pp it makes me feel like the players are going to have to figure something out because the coach is just blindly swapping players all over the place trying to find something that works. Why is Drury on the point instead of Ales? Is Torts punishing Kotalik for his even strength play by making our entire pp suffer? The guy was brought here for the pp and the shootout. It's not some big surprise that he's not a very good even strength player. Keep him on the 4th line. Why are we trying to make Kotalik something he's not while Drury can't even be what he's supposed to be?

We've got a plethora of questionable coaching decisions coupled with inexplicably bad play. I don't think one is cause and the other is effect. I don't think solving one of the problems will solve the other.

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12-02-2009, 10:09 AM
  #70
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But they turned over 2/3 of the roster as well. Almost nothing is the same as it was last year, so I don't see the point in comparing what Renney did with one team and Torts did with another.
On the other hand, the "core" group is very similar (Drury, Callahan, Dubinsky, Lundqvist, Staal, Girardi, Redden and Rozsival) and far too many of those guys are the ones that are struggling

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12-02-2009, 10:16 AM
  #71
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What BS.

Brooks I believe was the one who posted that the Rangers DID make an offer to him but he chose the Pens over us (for LESS money)

Oh Brooks, sometimes you post legit stuff, but other time its just BS to start silly internet arguments.

And he shouldnt even bother posting anything about Torts since he is extremely biased against him ever since Torts put him in his place.

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12-02-2009, 10:22 AM
  #72
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Bull **** article by Brooks (par for the course) and Orpik was far from the only physical defenseman available that offseason, none of which have come close to the money made by Redden or Rozsival.

Fail by Sather then

Fail by Brooks now

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12-02-2009, 10:39 AM
  #73
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I'm not sure Torts makes it through the season. I'm pretty sure he'll be fired by Feb 1. mark my words...

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12-02-2009, 10:46 AM
  #74
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What BS.

Brooks I believe was the one who posted that the Rangers DID make an offer to him but he chose the Pens over us (for LESS money)

Oh Brooks, sometimes you post legit stuff, but other time its just BS to start silly internet arguments.

And he shouldnt even bother posting anything about Torts since he is extremely biased against him ever since Torts put him in his place.
Put him in his place?

You mean when Brooks insisted that Tortorella answer some questions about a hockey game, and Tortorella told him to go **** himself?

Yea, that Torts, hes the defender of integrity.

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Old
12-02-2009, 10:49 AM
  #75
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I'm not sure Torts makes it through the season. I'm pretty sure he'll be fired by Feb 1. mark my words...
consider them marked

they didn't completely restructure this team to fit the tortorella direction only to abandon it by feb. 1st of its first season

you people are out of control

anyone who can't see that this is a transitional year is out of their face

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