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Tortorella's System Cannot Work with this Roster

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Old
12-02-2009, 09:20 AM
  #101
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12-02-2009, 09:43 AM
  #102
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to be honest, you can blame Torts a bit, but that doesn't mean a defensive system would work better because this team has the ability to score zero goals in a game and the way Lundqvist has been playing, he's not helping the situation any. Remember, when the Rangers played a defensive system, Lundqvist was sharper. But in the end, Torts is waiting for Higgins to be a 20 goal scorer again, hoping for Lisin to replace Naslund, looking to others to produce elsewhere. And that's just not realistic. He hasn't adjusted the approach well-enough (if you're looking for an answer from me, then I'd be an NHL coach - that's his job). At the end of the day the roster is flawed, and now it's finally showing, despite Gaborik trying not to show it. In past years Drury, Gomez, Naslund, Zherdev and others masked the problems well. The new crew hasn't done the same job and Drury's job was minimized to begin the season (why, that's anyone's guess). it's still early - we'll see if they can turn it arounfd.

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12-02-2009, 09:48 AM
  #103
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to be honest, you can blame Torts a bit, but that doesn't mean a defensive system would work better because this team has the ability to score zero goals in a game and the way Lundqvist has been playing, he's not helping the situation any. Remember, when the Rangers played a defensive system, Lundqvist was sharper. But in the end, Torts is waiting for Higgins to be a 20 goal scorer again, hoping for Lisin to replace Naslund, looking to others to produce elsewhere. And that's just not realistic. He hasn't adjusted the approach well-enough (if you're looking for an answer from me, then I'd be an NHL coach - that's his job). At the end of the day the roster is flawed, and now it's finally showing, despite Gaborik trying not to show it. In past years Drury, Gomez, Naslund, Zherdev and others masked the problems well. The new crew hasn't done the same job and Drury's job was minimized to begin the season (why, that's anyone's guess). it's still early - we'll see if they can turn it arounfd.
I agree to an extent Fletch. Theres a myriad of factors that are contributing to the poor performance of this team.

But when you break it down, in my humble opinion, if you instituted Renney's conservative approach to this team, with a true weapon like Gaborik, Im 100% convinced this would be better than a .500 hockey club.

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12-02-2009, 09:53 AM
  #104
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tough to say, Bleed...the King isn't playing like he used to, so that's one difference and it's all not the defensive system's fault. Gaborik seemns to be the only Ranger who can score - in a more defensive system that wouldn't change andf perhaps there's shackles on Gabby. Past players, namey Jagr and to a certain extent Zherdev excelled offensively, but those teams had more depth. This team has no depth, and coaching probably wouldn't change that much. I'm not 100% convinced that Renney's system system would be worse for this team as I'm on the fence, but there seems to also be problems outside Torts also.

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Old
12-02-2009, 09:59 AM
  #105
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Psssssst.

What's the constant in these problems?

S-A-T-H-E-R.

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12-02-2009, 10:03 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I agree to an extent Fletch. Theres a myriad of factors that are contributing to the poor performance of this team.

But when you break it down, in my humble opinion, if you instituted Renney's conservative approach to this team, with a true weapon like Gaborik, Im 100% convinced this would be better than a .500 hockey club.
Maybe, but remember last year the Rangers had Drury and Callahan and Zherdev and Naslund all scoring 20+ goals. Guys were actually producing like they should be capable of, they just didn't have a guy like Gaborik.

Put Gaborik on last years team, and yeah, I think that team instantly becomes much better. Try to make this years team play like last years...well, this team is actually not scoring as well as last years team did, so I think you just end up putting more of a burden on Gaborik and Lundqvist, while all the supposed secondary scoring players continue to struggle and end the season with fewer than 10 goals

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Old
12-02-2009, 10:10 AM
  #107
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tough to say, Bleed...the King isn't playing like he used to, so that's one difference and it's all not the defensive system's fault. Gaborik seemns to be the only Ranger who can score - in a more defensive system that wouldn't change andf perhaps there's shackles on Gabby. Past players, namey Jagr and to a certain extent Zherdev excelled offensively, but those teams had more depth. This team has no depth, and coaching probably wouldn't change that much. I'm not 100% convinced that Renney's system system would be worse for this team as I'm on the fence, but there seems to also be problems outside Torts also.
Well it also happens to be my opinion that Lundqvist would be playing better in a more structured defensive system. Ill forget about opportunities on the rush for a minute because those were tough on Lundqvist and a Renney coached team as well (although the opposition waltzed through the nuetral zone far less in Renney's system).

But when the team is applying pressure on our defensive zone this season, its been an absolute trainwreck. I mean, our forwards, our defense, everyone is running around without a clue. Renney's philosophy was fairly simple...when the opposition was putting on the pressure, the forwards and D would collapse to the middle of the ice. They would take away the prime scoring areas of the ice as much as possible. Lundqvist is very good at finding the puck through traffic and could handle more shots from the perimeter (like any goalie could).

This season, the chances inside the faceoff dots from 15-20 feet in are building up at a rapid rate. No goalie can be expected to stop that many shots from prime scoring areas.

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12-02-2009, 10:11 AM
  #108
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Maybe, but remember last year the Rangers had Drury and Callahan and Zherdev and Naslund all scoring 20+ goals. Guys were actually producing like they should be capable of, they just didn't have a guy like Gaborik.

Put Gaborik on last years team, and yeah, I think that team instantly becomes much better. Try to make this years team play like last years...well, this team is actually not scoring as well as last years team did, so I think you just end up putting more of a burden on Gaborik and Lundqvist, while all the supposed secondary scoring players continue to struggle and end the season with fewer than 10 goals
Thats what makes it all the more frustrating Lev.

Wasnt Torts supposed to be the guy to march in here and get the most out of the offense? He hasnt.

And I believe Torts has a personnel problem just like Renney, although a less dismal one with Gaborik in the fold. Yet, guys are still underperforming. Its just strange.

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12-02-2009, 10:15 AM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats what makes it all the more frustrating Lev.

Wasnt Torts supposed to be the guy to march in here and get the most out of the offense?
Yup, but the players inexplicably cannot score even though they were given more free reign. That is the confusing part...maybe it's roster turnover, I don't know, but it's not like there's something holding these guys back, and again, I think it's more that they cannot win battles and cycle the puck at all. And those are things you'd think guys like Callahan should be good at, but not so much this year for some inexplicable reason

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12-02-2009, 11:10 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats what makes it all the more frustrating Lev.

Wasnt Torts supposed to be the guy to march in here and get the most out of the offense? He hasnt.

And I believe Torts has a personnel problem just like Renney, although a less dismal one with Gaborik in the fold. Yet, guys are still underperforming. Its just strange.
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Yup, but the players inexplicably cannot score even though they were given more free reign. That is the confusing part...maybe it's roster turnover, I don't know, but it's not like there's something holding these guys back, and again, I think it's more that they cannot win battles and cycle the puck at all. And those are things you'd think guys like Callahan should be good at, but not so much this year for some inexplicable reason
Strange? Inexplicable?

There's nothing strange about it, and it can be explained very easily. There is no one on the team to get these players the puck. Simple as that. No mystery. I can't fathom how people have a hard time grasping this notion. A team full of grinders can't score goals without playmakers. It isn't going to happen on any team, under any coach, or in any system.

Every player on the squad who is "under-performing" has yet to display the ability to create offense for themselves in this league. All have flourished while playing with more skilled players. The fact that they can't produce without skill players to complement is hardly surprising, strange, mysterious, inexplicable, etc.

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Old
12-02-2009, 11:13 AM
  #111
John Torturella
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Tortorella has a system? This is news to me.

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12-02-2009, 11:38 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
I think it's more that they cannot win battles and cycle the puck at all. And those are things you'd think guys like Callahan should be good at, but not so much this year


It comes down to the simple things...winning those battles mean W's. If you look at the 7-1 start vs. now we were doing and winning those battles. You've got to want it more than your opponent esp. if you want to overcome a skill level difference.

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12-02-2009, 11:57 AM
  #113
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It comes down to the simple things...winning those battles mean W's. If you look at the 7-1 start vs. now we were doing and winning those battles. You've got to want it more than your opponent esp. if you want to overcome a skill level difference.
Which is pretty much why the Islanders are doing moderately better than expected

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12-02-2009, 12:46 PM
  #114
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Strange? Inexplicable?

There's nothing strange about it, and it can be explained very easily. There is no one on the team to get these players the puck. Simple as that. No mystery. I can't fathom how people have a hard time grasping this notion. A team full of grinders can't score goals without playmakers. It isn't going to happen on any team, under any coach, or in any system.

Every player on the squad who is "under-performing" has yet to display the ability to create offense for themselves in this league. All have flourished while playing with more skilled players. The fact that they can't produce without skill players to complement is hardly surprising, strange, mysterious, inexplicable, etc.
Bringing us back to Drury. He's a center but he's not a puck distributor. He's a shoot first guy--as are a lot of the guys Torts has played with him--Callahan, Kotalik, Higgins. Prospal will make plays--Gaborik can make plays but those two belong with each other--have good chemistry. Dubinsky is inconsistent but will share the puck as well. Other than those three guys--one of whom is injured no one makes plays.

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12-02-2009, 12:59 PM
  #115
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Strange? Inexplicable?

There's nothing strange about it, and it can be explained very easily. There is no one on the team to get these players the puck. Simple as that. No mystery. I can't fathom how people have a hard time grasping this notion. A team full of grinders can't score goals without playmakers. It isn't going to happen on any team, under any coach, or in any system.

Every player on the squad who is "under-performing" has yet to display the ability to create offense for themselves in this league. All have flourished while playing with more skilled players. The fact that they can't produce without skill players to complement is hardly surprising, strange, mysterious, inexplicable, etc.
I agree with you to a point Sting.

Then again, you were the guy that constantly **** on Gomez, basically labeling him a worthless player. Now you're saying this team needs distributors. Kind of hypocritical.

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Old
12-02-2009, 10:38 PM
  #116
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Then again, you were the guy that constantly **** on Gomez, basically labeling him a worthless player. Now you're saying this team needs distributors. Kind of hypocritical.
I think there's a pretty stark difference between saying that Gomez was/is a major roster problem/worthless AT THAT SALARY, and saying that his kind of player - one with distribution skills - is not needed. That seems a wild leap on your part.

If he had cost 4.5-5 million a year he'd likely be considered one of the best prototypical second line C's in the league. And he is a second line C. Also on Montreal where Plekanec has much more natural creativity. The bizarre thing always was paying that much money for someone - well, two guys with Drury - who don't have first line skill sets.

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12-03-2009, 12:43 PM
  #117
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There's no doubt that we have a goalie and true goal scorer that can win us the cup. It's everything in between that's holding us back.

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12-03-2009, 12:46 PM
  #118
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There's no doubt that we have a goalie and true goal scorer that can win us the cup. It's everything in between that's holding us back.
Thats a lot.

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Old
12-05-2009, 09:07 PM
  #119
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Chris Drury, career 25+ goal scorer
Ryan Callahan, scored 20+ goals last year
Chris Higgins, career 20+ goal scorer.

Those 3 you pencil in for 65 goals combined right? Right now they are on pace to score 25 combined goals.

Take 40 goals off the top of any team and I bet you they will look a lot weaker than they actually are. If you can get just those 3 guys going at a very reasonable rate that they have proven over their careers that they can produce at, the Rangers go from the 14th ranked offense to the 2nd ranked offense in the league.

This team has the talent, when you factor in that Gaborik is playing out of his mind, but those 3 guys struggling as they are has really hurt this team.
All 3 played tremendous games tonight, and we won. and Higgins and Cally scored the 2 goals.

Its amazing how much better this team is when those 3 arent just a huge black hole in the middle of our lineup.

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Old
12-09-2009, 10:03 PM
  #120
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the players we have arent this bad that they cannot complete a pass or have the puck in the offensive zone for more then 10 seconds. wtf is torts system???

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12-09-2009, 10:07 PM
  #121
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this team is beyond aweful...no skill on offense. Aside from guys like gaborik and prospal...These other guys are terrible

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12-09-2009, 10:08 PM
  #122
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we arent a grinding team, we arent a puck control team, were not a trapping team, we dont defend overly well wtf do we actually do?!?

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12-09-2009, 10:10 PM
  #123
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we arent a grinding team, we arent a puck control team, were not a trapping team, we dont defend overly well wtf do we actually do?!?
we just have the wrong set of guys on this team who cant produce ****

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Old
12-09-2009, 10:11 PM
  #124
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Did Tortorella resign yet?

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12-09-2009, 10:14 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats what makes it all the more frustrating Lev.

Wasnt Torts supposed to be the guy to march in here and get the most out of the offense? He hasnt.

And I believe Torts has a personnel problem just like Renney, although a less dismal one with Gaborik in the fold. Yet, guys are still underperforming. Its just strange.
In the end, Torts couldn't even get it done with the Lightning - and his last team there had Richards, St. Louis, Lecavalier, Prospal, AND Dan Boyle. Ranger roster isn't even going to SNIFF that kind of skill for years and years.

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