HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, NHL revenues, relocation and expansion.

We must back Gary Bettman

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-16-2004, 03:52 PM
  #26
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 15,875
vCash: 500
The players should love Gary, during his tenure the boys were able skyrocket salaries 120% over a 10 year period, and the avg went from 700k to 1.8M...yet they say the game is no better yet worse than ten years ago??? Well boys you play the game worse but make 120% more money??? I think the players are talking out of both sides of their mouths! Just like Gary!!! The bottomline is Gary recognizes his mistakes and is trying to fix them... where is Knob Goodenow in all of this...he is left saying, please sir may I have some more...

BLONG7 is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 03:56 PM
  #27
Evil Chris
Registered User
 
Evil Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
Bettman has overexpanded into non hockey markets,he's failed to address the clutching and grabbing that is killing the game,he rolled over the CBA which is directly responsible for the prices you complain about.
Non hockey markets? ha... you blame Bettman for Dallas winning the Cup? Please... be a little more precise. He's attempted to bring hockey places it hasn't been before and get more eyeballs on the game.

Clutch and grab? It isn't 1984 anymore. Obstruction rules have all but removed that from the game. Good thing.

Bettman haters want a single person to be held accountable, so guess what? Gary gets it in the butt as a result. But it's not his fault, the problems in the NHL. It's the constant complacency of everyone involved, pointing fingers.

Bettman has stepped up and said no more. You may hate him because of it now, but if all goes well, the next generation of hockey fans will thank him for it.

Evil Chris is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 03:59 PM
  #28
Evil Chris
Registered User
 
Evil Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
oh and ps... if Bettman had his way, neither Winnipeg nor Quebec would have lost their teams. The league's plan will make it so that small franchises can be confident in their operations. Not like the climate of today.

Hell, even the Montreal Canadiens could be at risk in a few years at this pace. That just can't happen.

Evil Chris is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 04:05 PM
  #29
soilwork2004
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 127
vCash: 500
...

who thinks brian burke would make an excellent commishner?

soilwork2004 is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 04:09 PM
  #30
Epsilon
#TeamHolland
 
Epsilon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: South Cackalacky
Posts: 48,577
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilwork2004
who thinks brian burke would make an excellent commishner?
He'd be fired within a month for trying to act like a dictator and telling off owners who disagree with him.

Epsilon is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 04:44 PM
  #31
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 15,875
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilwork2004
who thinks brian burke would make an excellent commishner?
He is rough around the edges, but I think he would be an excellent Commish!!!

BLONG7 is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 05:00 PM
  #32
Bring Back Bucky
Registered User
 
Bring Back Bucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Delicieux!
Country: Heard and McDonald Islands
Posts: 7,898
vCash: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by soilwork2004
who thinks brian burke would make an excellent commishner?

Anybody but Burke, please, anybody but Burke.

I don't think he has any capacity to use his brain, his heart does his talking. Not that it's bad to love hockey, but I don't think this guy has ANY capacity to put his emotions aside. He comes off as a complete bozo on topics he's emotionally attached to, like the Bertuzzi affair.

Bring Back Bucky is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 07:11 PM
  #33
leaflover
Stanley Cup 2022
 
leaflover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: beautiful B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,960
vCash: 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Chris
Non hockey markets? ha... you blame Bettman for Dallas winning the Cup? Please... be a little more precise. He's attempted to bring hockey places it hasn't been before and get more eyeballs on the game.

Clutch and grab? It isn't 1984 anymore. Obstruction rules have all but removed that from the game. Good thing.

Bettman haters want a single person to be held accountable, so guess what? Gary gets it in the butt as a result. But it's not his fault, the problems in the NHL. It's the constant complacency of everyone involved, pointing fingers.

Bettman has stepped up and said no more. You may hate him because of it now, but if all goes well, the next generation of hockey fans will thank him for it.
Are you serious?
You think Bettmans overexpansion has helped?
Its diluted the overall talent level to provide people who dont care about hockey with hockey.

Clutching and grabbing has all been removed
Not sure what your watching but its not NHL hockey.

Bettman haters do want Bettman held accountable.And Bettman lovers like you want to pretend he's completely void of fault.Which is worse?

leaflover is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 07:16 PM
  #34
Evil Chris
Registered User
 
Evil Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
Bettman haters do want Bettman held accountable.And Bettman lovers like you want to pretend he's completely void of fault.Which is worse?
You mistake me for someone who has an extreme opinion and point of view, like yourself.

I'm no Bettman lover, nor am I a hater. However, I do believe that he is doing the right thing for the game. I also think that overall, he's been a good comish since taking on the job.

Overexpansion (as you call it) is simply a growth curve for the NHL. Talent dilution? Gimme a break. You're reaching.

Evil Chris is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 07:19 PM
  #35
leaflover
Stanley Cup 2022
 
leaflover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: beautiful B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,960
vCash: 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Chris
You mistake me for someone who has an extreme opinion and point of view, like yourself.

I'm no Bettman lover, nor am I a hater. However, I do believe that he is doing the right thing for the game. I also think that overall, he's been a good comish since taking on the job.

Overexpansion (as you call it) is simply a growth curve for the NHL. Talent dilution? Gimme a break. You're reaching.
I'm reaching?
By adding well over 100 jobs to players incapable of being regular Nhlers doesn't dilute the talent level?
Can you explain how thats possible?

leaflover is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 07:32 PM
  #36
Evil Chris
Registered User
 
Evil Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
I'm reaching?
By adding well over 100 jobs to players incapable of being regular Nhlers doesn't dilute the talent level?
Can you explain how thats possible?
That is your opinion. To which you are fully entitled.

Evil Chris is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 07:33 PM
  #37
leaflover
Stanley Cup 2022
 
leaflover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: beautiful B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,960
vCash: 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Chris
That is your opinion. To which you are fully entitled.
No c'mon you said i'm reaching and i'd like to hear you explain your POV.
Just tell me how adding inferior talent can possibly not lower the overall level.

leaflover is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 08:10 PM
  #38
Cawz
Registered User
 
Cawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oiler fan in Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
Its diluted the overall talent level
Well, just to play devils advocate...

There are many arguments stating that more people are playing the game on the globe, so the pool is also growing. Plus since more players are playing in the NHL, more players are playing at the NHL level, thus maturing their skills faster. While youre "diluting the talent" statement sort of holds true, its not as cut n dry as it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
to provide people who dont care about hockey with hockey.
Like Chicago last year? Oh wait, theyre a great traditional market. Like Calgary the last few years before this one? Oh wait, the Red Mile with thousands of fans on the streets, I forgot. Like Edmonton in the mid-90s? Oh wait, they have arguably the best fans in the NHL.

Any city will support a winner. Winnipeg, Caralina and Tampa Bay will all support a winner. Although I dont agree with some of the expansion choices (and the number of new teams), no matter where the expansion took place, there would be problems.

If the sport was better, all teams would be able to get 18000 people to come and watch. Thats where Shanahan's summit comes in (hopefully)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
Bettman haters do want Bettman held accountable.And Bettman lovers like you want to pretend he's completely void of fault.Which is worse?
How often did Zeigler get booed when he made an appearance. How often do refs get booed (or cheered if they get knocked down). People hate anyone in charge, especially if something is going wrong. Blame the man at the top.

Did you guys enjoy the playoffs this year? Well, if the state of the game is the fault of Bettman, you better thank him when good things happen too (door swings both ways).

Dammit Gary, the clutching and grabbing sucks, make the players stop. Dammit Gary, the owners are spending too much, make the owners stop. Dammit Gary, Todds thuggin my players, make him stop. Dammit Gary, the beers too expensive, the tickets are too much, my team's superstar is holding out, their goalies pads are too big, we should have won game 6...

If theres one thing I've learnt in my 31 years on this planet, no matter who is in charge, people are going to *****.

Cawz is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 08:40 PM
  #39
leaflover
Stanley Cup 2022
 
leaflover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: beautiful B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,960
vCash: 3698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cawz

no matter where the expansion took place, there would be problems.
Which is exactly why i say expansion was a mistake.

And if you care to read back you'll see that i was simply explaining to the other poster that clutching and grabbing is alive and well in the NHL,as opposed to his comment that it was long gone.

And finally expansion HAS lowered the overall talent level without a doubt.You can argue that the world has produced the 100+ additional NHlers without a drop in quality but that really hasn't happened.And just because more people are playing at the NHL level doesn't mean they belong there.They're there because there were more NHL jobs come available,and thats the only reason.

Ya,of course people at the top are held accountable,there wouldn't be much point in trying to hold an office clerk or janitor responsible.

leaflover is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 09:06 PM
  #40
Cawz
Registered User
 
Cawz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Oiler fan in Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,818
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
Which is exactly why i say expansion was a mistake.
But I think 30 teams could work if the game was better. Go Shanny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
And finally expansion HAS lowered the overall talent level without a doubt.You can argue that the world has produced the 100+ additional NHlers without a drop in quality but that really hasn't happened.And just because more people are playing at the NHL level doesn't mean they belong there.They're there because there were more NHL jobs come available,and thats the only reason.
So how many NHl caliber players are there in the world? 300? 400? You feel 600 whatever is too high, so whats the magic number?

Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
Ya,of course people at the top are held accountable,there wouldn't be much point in trying to hold an office clerk or janitor responsible.
But if you look at other threads, someone said " Bettman is the cause of all the on-ice and off-ice problems in the NHL", or something to that effect. Just shows some people mindset (not yours necesarily).

The problems in the NHL are numerous. Bettman is not the cause of the problems. People just seem to be able to deal with things better if they pinpoint the problem on one person.

Cawz is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 09:11 PM
  #41
MacDaddy TLC*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Leafin La Vida Loca
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
Bettman has overexpanded into non hockey markets,he's failed to address the clutching and grabbing that is killing the game,he rolled over the CBA which is directly responsible for the prices you complain about.
The Minnesota and Columbus expansions are far from mistakes. I'm leaning towards Nashville not being a mistake either, judging by what I saw of them last year during the playoffs and very few regular season games. They look to have a solid core of fansand word around town is that Nashville is all over hockey like a fat girl on a sundae (when local boy Greg Johnson speaks word gets around --- you should have heard what he said about Fedorov! ). Atlanta and Anaheim came with big money behind them and there isn't an owner in this league who doesn't start drooling like a Pavlovian dog when dollar signs are flashed in front of their eyes.
The Ottawa and Tampa and Anaheim and Florida expansions were set during the Gil Stein and John Zieglar eras, so Bettman cannot be blamed for those.

The CBA rollover was more the responsibility of the owners who did not want any factors (ie lockout, strike) to get in the way of their expansion

MacDaddy TLC* is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 09:21 PM
  #42
MojoJojo
Registered User
 
MojoJojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 9,354
vCash: 500
People need to get over the fact that professional athletes make a lot of money. Perhaps if I thought the owners would actually lower ticket prices if there was a cap, to reflect their savings I would have a little more sympathy for them. Honestly I would rather the players got paid well instead of the shareholders, billionaires, and media companies that stand to gain by a cap.

MojoJojo is offline  
Old
12-16-2004, 10:41 PM
  #43
Leaf Lander
Registered User
 
Leaf Lander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: BWO Headquarters
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,324
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Leaf Lander Send a message via MSN to Leaf Lander
the world changes the game changes and so do the times we all live in.

This isnt 1970 players are not blue collar players anymore.

They are elite athletes and deserve to get paid there worth.

Are they worth 8 mil a yr? No off course not. Do we the fans deserve to pay 400 dollars for tickets to see a game no we don't but do you honestly feel if the player salries are rolled back and a salary cap is put in place that the price of a ticket is going to decrease very much?

Bettman and Goodenow the players and the owners could be erasing the league we all love severing the ties of history. If the fans choose a side and this whole lockout continues we will all loose something important the game and the teams we root for and the league we love.

The NHL may very well be ending and not just for one season but forever

__________________
Hockey's Top 1100 Players of All Time ATD Draft!!!
Leaf Lander is offline  
Old
12-17-2004, 02:11 AM
  #44
txomisc
Registered User
 
txomisc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 8,016
vCash: 500
geez you people act as if Bettman was like "hey we are gonna expand"
and the players association and everyone else said "noooo noo noooo thats a horrible idea"
and bettman said unto them "well since I am the hockey God and want to expand, we will expand"

Quote:
Originally Posted by leaflover
Are you serious?
You think Bettmans overexpansion has helped?
Its diluted the overall talent level to provide people who dont care about hockey with hockey.

Clutching and grabbing has all been removed
Not sure what your watching but its not NHL hockey.

Bettman haters do want Bettman held accountable.And Bettman lovers like you want to pretend he's completely void of fault.Which is worse?

txomisc is offline  
Old
12-17-2004, 07:26 AM
  #45
MacDaddy TLC*
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Leafin La Vida Loca
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,463
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txomisc
geez you people act as if Bettman was like "hey we are gonna expand"
and the players association and everyone else said "noooo noo noooo thats a horrible idea"
and bettman said unto them "well since I am the hockey God and want to expand, we will expand"
The expansion meant a lot more jobs, mostly in warm climates. The players and NHLPA were probably jumping up and down doing the money dance when they heard. Their organization grew by 25% when 6 teams were added. (Doesn't change the fact that the league already had enough teams on life support that it was a bad idea to expand rather than relocate.)

MacDaddy TLC* is offline  
Old
12-17-2004, 05:29 PM
  #46
txomisc
Registered User
 
txomisc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: California
Country: United States
Posts: 8,016
vCash: 500
i definately agree it was a bad idea. However these people with blinders on blaming Bettman 100% for overexpanding simply have a view of things that is way way off

txomisc is offline  
Old
12-17-2004, 07:54 PM
  #47
Evil Chris
Registered User
 
Evil Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 449
vCash: 500
Oh hell, let's just go back to the original 6 and wipe out 35 years of growth.

Evil Chris is offline  
Old
12-17-2004, 08:19 PM
  #48
IWD
...
 
IWD's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 5,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evil Chris
Oh hell, let's just go back to the original 6 and wipe out 35 years of growth.
Better yet, let's go back to 24. A time when, arguably, the NHL was at its peak. No one has really mentioned this yet, so I think it's about time someone did. I'll use Darcy Tucker as an example. Anyone without an anti-Leaf bias can see he's a talented player. It's safe to say he's a 2nd/3rd line player. However, 10 years ago when we were sitting at 24 teams does anyone doubt that a player like him would be hitching a ride on the 4th line? And therein lies the point. Expansion is what caused salaries to start rising (well, not completely, but it was a big reason). If you have players of Tucker's calibre, for example, going from being a below average player to being an average to above average player, then it makes sense that he's going to want to more money. If an average player like him (I'm using average since he's a 2nd/3rd liner) starts getting paid more, it only makes sense that the higher end players will want more. And so on and so forth. If not the case of rising salaries, it's certainly a contributer.

Teams need to be removed. I keep hearing from PecaFan about how "the health of the league" is the most important thing. Well, the removal of teams will probably be the most dramatic factor in improving that health.

IWD is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:32 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.