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Rafalski Questionable; Kindl to (FINALLY!) debut?

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Old
12-02-2009, 08:23 PM
  #26
Franzenstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I'm sure the Wings looking rough without Rafalski in the playoffs had nothing to do with the fact that they were facing their toughest opponents with a Datsyuk-less team. After all, Rafalski contributed a TON after returning to the Wings-Ducks series with a whopping 7 PIM and 0 points in the 2 games he played.

For a guy who is seeing 4 minutes of PPTOI per game, leads his team in ESTOI per game, doesn't play the PK, and is getting paid $6M, he should be doing a hell of a lot more than being on pace for 39 points, +3, and 92 giveaways.

Not to mention, his 28 giveaways leads the Red Wings, as does his -23 GA/TA differential. Hes also played 42+ more minutes on the PP than Kronwall, and has played in 4 more games, and still hasn't tied him for the team lead in points among Dmen.


Yeah, so underrated.
You mean 2 PIM and a mugging by Corey Perry? just sayin'

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12-02-2009, 08:34 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I'm sure the Wings looking rough without Rafalski in the playoffs had nothing to do with the fact that they were facing their toughest opponents with a Datsyuk-less team. After all, Rafalski contributed a TON after returning to the Wings-Ducks series with a whopping 7 PIM and 0 points in the 2 games he played.

For a guy who is seeing 4 minutes of PPTOI per game, leads his team in ESTOI per game, doesn't play the PK, and is getting paid $6M, he should be doing a hell of a lot more than being on pace for 39 points, +3, and 92 giveaways.

Not to mention, his 28 giveaways leads the Red Wings, as does his -23 GA/TA differential. Hes also played 42+ more minutes on the PP than Kronwall, and has played in 4 more games, and still hasn't tied him for the team lead in points among Dmen.


Yeah, so underrated.
Waaaa?! Do you not recall how bad the Wings PP looked without him? or how bad the team looked with Chelios playing 8 minutes a game? He was an essential part of our playoff run. Just because he isn't worth 6 million in our opinion doesn't mean he isn't underrated, because he definitely is. If he wasn't first pairing material he wouldn't be played on the first pair with Lidstrom. Playing against the other teams top lines every game is not an easy task and any little mistake and the puck is in the back of the net. That being said he does make mistakes (but who doesn't) and always gets beat to the outside. But he is a right handed puck moving defensemen, and as much as you don't think Rafalski is worth 6mill, just remember players like him are high demand with low supply.

To put things into perspective, for every minute Rafalski is out their means less TOI for Meech and Lebda.

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Old
12-02-2009, 09:52 PM
  #28
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Rafalski does need to produce more but he's also put up 59, 55 and 55 points over the past three seasons. If he continues his pace, this will be his lowest PPG since his rookie year in NJ. While the season's wearing on, I still expect the guy to rebound and put up ~50 points.

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12-02-2009, 09:52 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r0bert8841 View Post
If he wasn't first pairing material he wouldn't be played on the first pair with Lidstrom.
Lidstrom's pairing partners over the years?
Old Larry Murphy.
Dmitri Bykov
Old Freddie Olausson
Matthiue Dandenault

Hardly a great list of first pairing defensemen.

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12-03-2009, 09:22 AM
  #30
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Kindl Up and to Play if Rafalski Can't

Per MLive:

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....b_kindl_w.html

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12-03-2009, 09:40 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
I have never seen Kindl play and the only chat I have heard about him is here on the forums so I am trusting you guys.

Yeah, why isn't Janik given more of a chance? He played fine against Boston. He played nearly 14 mins (2 of them on the PK) and it was even a match where Osgood got a rare shutout. I think he should be given more chances.
Janik was good in his callup but I would imagine with Kronwall and Rafalski both out, they would be going with a guy with more offensive flair in Kindl. They may be thinking that the defense needs another puck mover right now more than it needs another shot blocker.

I'd be fine with Janik too, but I also want to see what Kindl can do.

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12-03-2009, 11:04 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Janik was good in his callup but I would imagine with Kronwall and Rafalski both out, they would be going with a guy with more offensive flair in Kindl. They may be thinking that the defense needs another puck mover right now more than it needs another shot blocker.

I'd be fine with Janik too, but I also want to see what Kindl can do.
Yea, its time to give the kid a cup of coffee and see what he can do. We know and the NHL knows what Janik can do. HOlland obviously wanted Kindl to come up to see what he can do. I like it. Plus, this might give him some confidence.

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12-03-2009, 11:04 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Janik was good in his callup but I would imagine with Kronwall and Rafalski both out, they would be going with a guy with more offensive flair in Kindl. They may be thinking that the defense needs another puck mover right now more than it needs another shot blocker.

I'd be fine with Janik too, but I also want to see what Kindl can do.
No doubt, if you ask me I would like to see more prospects given a go just for the sake of resting a few players maybe. I'm sure they would perform well (to push for a permanent place in the future).

I also don't care between Janik and Kindl. Kindl has more time and it seems like he is a top prospect. If we have a glimpse of him then we can really judge how he fits. But not for only 1 game, mind you. Cause if he does have a bad game then it will really hurt his chances of coming back. Maybe stick with him for a few games or something. Toronto did that with Gunnarsson and he turned out fine (relatively speaking).

And you never know, if Janik, Kindl and other guys who are called up turn out to be hits, then we won't need to worry with acquiring so many players in the future. They could potentially replace the UFA going this season and will be cheaper.

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Old
12-03-2009, 11:30 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
No doubt, if you ask me I would like to see more prospects given a go just for the sake of resting a few players maybe. I'm sure they would perform well (to push for a permanent place in the future).

I also don't care between Janik and Kindl. Kindl has more time and it seems like he is a top prospect. If we have a glimpse of him then we can really judge how he fits. But not for only 1 game, mind you. Cause if he does have a bad game then it will really hurt his chances of coming back. Maybe stick with him for a few games or something. Toronto did that with Gunnarsson and he turned out fine (relatively speaking).

And you never know, if Janik, Kindl and other guys who are called up turn out to be hits, then we won't need to worry with acquiring so many players in the future. They could potentially replace the UFA going this season and will be cheaper.
Thing is, Babcock is always talking about trying to find someone to GEL with Pavel to get him going.. Well, why not give some prospects a call up who got top 6 potential and see what they do? What would a 5 game debut do? Would it really stunt their development playing with Pavel? What harm would it do to call up Tatar. I know Detroit loves giving kids time and being patient but WHAT IF you DONT need to be THAT patient with someone and he flourishes? God forbid we try doing something uncharacteristic for once.

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12-03-2009, 11:34 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Toronto did that with Gunnarsson and he turned out fine (relatively speaking).
gunnarsson was outplaying the other Ds in preseason and was only sent down because the leafs have all those overpaid D trash under contract. but there came the day they were no longer able to let a better player in the minors.

kindl's preseason was...well...nothing to write home about. he didn't look ready at all.

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12-03-2009, 12:21 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
No doubt, if you ask me I would like to see more prospects given a go just for the sake of resting a few players maybe. I'm sure they would perform well (to push for a permanent place in the future).

I also don't care between Janik and Kindl. Kindl has more time and it seems like he is a top prospect. If we have a glimpse of him then we can really judge how he fits. But not for only 1 game, mind you. Cause if he does have a bad game then it will really hurt his chances of coming back. Maybe stick with him for a few games or something. Toronto did that with Gunnarsson and he turned out fine (relatively speaking).

And you never know, if Janik, Kindl and other guys who are called up turn out to be hits, then we won't need to worry with acquiring so many players in the future. They could potentially replace the UFA going this season and will be cheaper.
If it were a playoff game I'd bet a large amount that Janik would get the call ahead of Kindl. But it's December, so why not give Kindl a look?

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12-03-2009, 12:41 PM
  #37
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He's in and he will play on the top PP unit.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....nhl_debut.html

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12-03-2009, 01:34 PM
  #38
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Here are my predictions for the game tonight:

Leino will get rocked by somebody, but will score a goal.
Zetterberg will set up Bertuzzi with a great scoring opportunity - Bert will hit the post.
Lebda and Kindl will be on the ice for both of Edmonton's goals.

Wings win 4-2.

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12-03-2009, 02:07 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braby View Post
He's in and he will play on the top PP unit.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....nhl_debut.html
Good to see him getting some powerplay time. I'll definitely try to see this one.

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12-03-2009, 02:59 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
... give the kid a cup of coffee...
I don't know what it is about that phrase, but it's like nails on a chalkboard for me.

Maybe it's because I hate coffee, or maybe it just comes across as incredibly condescending...

Regardless, glad to see Kindl get a call-up. If he falls flat on his face, at least we know Janik can perform.


Last edited by RedMenace: 12-03-2009 at 03:10 PM.
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12-03-2009, 03:37 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
I don't know what it is about that phrase, but it's like nails on a chalkboard for me.

Maybe it's because I hate coffee, or maybe it just comes across as incredibly condescending...

Regardless, glad to see Kindl get a call-up. If he falls flat on his face, at least we know Janik can perform.
And in most professions, isn't it the new guy that gets YOU the cup of coffee?

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12-03-2009, 03:55 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braby View Post
He's in and he will play on the top PP unit.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....nhl_debut.html
I do like him on the PP, kid has a good shot and can really move the puck.

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12-03-2009, 05:20 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
And in most professions, isn't it the new guy that gets YOU the cup of coffee?


I mean, I really just envision the team sitting there in front of a fireplace, handing him a cup of coffee, and staring at him expectantly until he drinks it.

Of course, everyone is wearing cardigans or smoking jackets...

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12-03-2009, 05:54 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
No doubt, if you ask me I would like to see more prospects given a go just for the sake of resting a few players maybe. I'm sure they would perform well (to push for a permanent place in the future).

And you never know, if Janik, Kindl and other guys who are called up turn out to be hits, then we won't need to worry with acquiring so many players in the future. They could potentially replace the UFA going this season and will be cheaper.
No one needs resting now. We need every NHL calibre player on our roster right now to play if we want to go forward.

And it is very incorrect to assume our prospects would play well. Some just don't have the talent and others haven't put it all together. When they start dominating the AHL then they will be considered for call-ups, and no forward on the Griffs qualifies for this, and Kindl and Larsson are the only Griffins that do. Tatar and Mursak aren't physically ready for the NHL and it could easily result in career ending injuries. A bad call-up could kill a prospect's confidence and ultimately end their career. Their are so many more things that could go wrong than right. The Red Wings need to stick to the philosophy that has lead to 20 years of dominant hockey.

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12-03-2009, 06:55 PM
  #45
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Here are my predictions for the game tonight:

...
Lebda and Kindl will be on the ice for both of Edmonton's goals.

Eh? ... Eh?

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Old
12-04-2009, 12:07 PM
  #46
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Quick Kindl question: I've seen him listed at 199lbs -is this accurate?? If so, that seems pretty light for a guy who is 6'3''

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12-04-2009, 12:22 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Quick Kindl question: I've seen him listed at 199lbs -is this accurate?? If so, that seems pretty light for a guy who is 6'3''
Mod: OT

Thoughts on Kindl:
1) Was in position. Broke up a few plays.
2) Never really got a chance to see his passing/shot.
3) Didn't seem physical at all in the corners.
4) On a couple occasions, his skating looked rough -- as in, slow. That was the surprising thing.


Last edited by Fugu: 12-04-2009 at 01:33 PM. Reason: ...
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12-04-2009, 12:26 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
Quick Kindl question: I've seen him listed at 199lbs -is this accurate?? If so, that seems pretty light for a guy who is 6'3''
Nick is 6'2 or 6'3 and has been listed at 180-190 his whole career, right?

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12-04-2009, 04:47 PM
  #49
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Lidstrom's pairing partners over the years?
Old Larry Murphy.
Dmitri Bykov
Old Freddie Olausson
Matthiue Dandenault

Hardly a great list of first pairing defensemen.
Andreas Lilja as well.

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12-04-2009, 05:24 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
Nick is 6'2 or 6'3 and has been listed at 180-190 his whole career, right?
But Kindl's not Lidstrom. And even Lids has had occasional trouble with big guys down low. It's not a necessity for Kindl to bulk up but I have to think it'd make his life easier to be a bit bigger.

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