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ATD 12 Rene Lecavalier Semi-Final: 5 Nova Scotia Voyageurs vs. 6 Renfrew Millionaires

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Old
12-02-2009, 12:02 AM
  #26
Rzeznik
 
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Coaching: Advantage Nova Scotia

Billy Reay is a fantastic coach, probably one of the greatest to never win a cup. However, I'm not sure his style fits that of Renfrew's top two lines. It is well known that his wingers were asked to play a conservative, close checking style, which is obviously not of strength of Renfrew's wingers. This could be a problem when it comes to morale or communication between the coach and players. However, that's not a knock on Reay, as he does clearly belong in a 32 team draft, just a knock on the style of coach and players clashing. Adams however, is in that second-tier of top end coaches, right around the 8-12 area IMO. Bun Cook only widens this gap. Agressive, hard nosed hockey is what Adams loved, and agressive, hard nosed hockey is what he'll get from my group.

Forwards: Even

This has been discussed extensively throughout the discussion, but how I see it, I see an advantage and a slight advantage for Renfrew on the 1st and 3rd lines, and I see an advantage and slight advantage for my squad on the 2nd and 4th lines, though there isn't much puck-winning in Renfew's top two. As for match-ups, which will be important due to home ice advantage, I see my 3rd playing Fedorov's line, and Gilmour's line matching up against Crosby. Irvin's line has the speed and defensive ability to match-up against Renfrew's top line, although this will surely sacrifice some of my lines offense. Meanwhile, I can see Gilmour's line dominating Renfrew's second line physically, while playing solid defense and being a legitimate threat to score. I am under the opinion that Crosby is still a lower end second liner in this thing, while Gilmour is a perfect second-liner. I'll take this match-up as much as possible. This also gives Yzerman's line, as I've said previous, a chance to concentrate solely on offense, as Renfrew's bottom two lines will have to focus on defense in order to contain them.

Larry Robinson vs. Mark Howe: Slight advantage Nova Scotia

Not much to say about the two perennial all-stars, as we can clearly both agree that the gap in Howe's offensive ability doesn't make up for Robinson's defensive advantage and physicality. Don't get me wrong, I love Howe, and believe he may be the best player not in the Hall, but Robinson has a small advantage here, to put it bluntly.

Ken Reardon vs. Alexei Kasatonov: Slight advantage Renfrew

Both are big, strong men who played a rather unorthodox style, although Kasatonov was a bit more dynamic than Reardon was. They were both said to be two of the strongest men of their time, very sound in their own zone where I believe Reardon has a slight edge, but Kasatonov's offense gives him the slight edge here. Both are very good number two's though.

Jean-Guy Talbot vs. Si Griffis: Slight advantage Nova Scotia

Griffis is a guy I looked at seriously when I drafted Talbot, but I found that Talbot was clearly a better suitor to be paired with Big Bird than Griffis. Talbot is a great defensive defender with a great first pass and underrated offensive ability (once finished top 10 in assists in the whole league). While Griffis was big man and a masterful scorer at both forward and defense, I don't think his advantage offensively is as big as Talbot's when it comes to defense. I haven't been able to find much on Griffis' defensive game though, other than him being physical, so if you have some stuff I don't, I'd be willing to reconsider this, obviously.

Ted Green vs. Mike Ramsey: Even

Both were stay at home defenders who didn't hesitate to lower the boom on an opponent. Both guys were heart and soul players who blocked shots and would do anything for their respective teams. Ramsey has a defensive edge, Green has an offensive edge. Enough said.

Alexander Gusev vs. Teppo Numminen: Slight advantage Renfrew

Two similar players who were reliable all over the ice, though not the quickest guys. Pretty even offensively, with maybe a bit of an edge to Gusev, but I believe Numminen is the safer pick here, as Gusev is known to have a defensive gaffe every once in a while. That said, the advantage here is slim, but apparent.

Hamby Shore vs. Pat Egan: Slight advantage Nova Scotia

Egan, known as a tough customer, is IMO out of place on that second pairing, where he'll be asked to see some minutes against Nova Scotia's top two lines. He is exploitable defensively, because although he was tough, he wasn't the biggest man of his time, and he wasn't said to be a defensive stalwart either. Guys like Ciccarelli and Neely may be able to beat him down low, as he won't have a physical advantage there. The same could be said about Shore, who was a pretty tough guy as well, and pretty small, which has been touched on. However, he isn't going to be playing major minutes, and the lack of physicality on Renfrew's top two lines will prevent him from getting exploited like Egan could. Plus, his offense gives him an edge, though small, over Egan.

Overall: Slight advantage Nova Scotia

As you can see, our defense is pretty even overall, although I do have an edge in some areas. My top four is better defensively and physically, which is what I will need against the smaller, quicker forwards on Renfrew's top two lines. My bottom pairing won't see much ice against these lines, while Renfrew's bottom pairings are pretty even, though nothing spectacular. I think that with them seeing even ice time against better lines, rather than having a top four to play against my top two lines, I believe they may run into trouble. As for match-ups, look for Robinson and Talbot to be out there whenever Fedorov and Kharlamov touch the ice. Robinson will play the right side, so he can line up with Kharlamov, which I think will hurt the speedy Russian's ability to wheel with the puck. I'll go 2nd pairing against second line, which will create a physical mismatch as well, and with Crosby expected to win pucks against Reardon and Green, I think this line may have their hands full.

Goaltending: Advantage Renfew

Touched on it. Hasek over Worsley is a no-brainer.

It's late here, and I won't be around much tomorrow, so best of luck to you overpass. I'll try to come and comment before all the votes are in, but if not, may the best team win.

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Old
12-02-2009, 12:17 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeznik View Post
Egan, known as a tough customer, is IMO out of place on that second pairing, where he'll be asked to see some minutes against Nova Scotia's top two lines.
I'll just note that my third defensive pairing will probably play tougher defensive matchups than my second pairing. I'm going with more of a 1-2A-2B approach to my defensive pairings, with Griffis-Egan in a more offensive role and Ramsey-Numminen in a more defensive role.

Also, I think you underestimate Egan. He wasn't small for his time at all at 5'10'', 180 pounds. Furthermore, as a quote in his bio says, "his nickname was Boxcar because he was built like one." I don't think he'll be overpowered down low.

But overall, your assessments are fair, even if I don't always agree. We'll see what the voters have to say, and I'm sure it will be a good series.

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Old
12-02-2009, 12:40 AM
  #28
Dreakmur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rzeznik View Post
Coaching: Advantage Nova Scotia
Billy Reay is a fantastic coach, probably one of the greatest to never win a cup.
I've always though Reay was one of the reasons Chicago didn't win more Cups.

I was lucky enough to meet Bobby Hull when my team played in the Nike Bauer tournament. Maybe he's bitter, but he pretty much blamed Reay 100% on their lack of success.

Funny story about that tournament:
As we arrived in our bus, Bobby was waiting at the entrance, and he welcomed all the kids and even held the door open for us. It took me a double take, but when I figured out who it was. All the players had no idea, and they mumbled "wierdo", "who's that old fart", etc as they walked in. I told them all who it was, and still none of them knew Don't kids read about hockey history anymore?

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12-02-2009, 12:48 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
I've always though Reay was one of the reasons Chicago didn't win more Cups.

I was lucky enough to meet Bobby Hull when my team played in the Nike Bauer tournament. Maybe he's bitter, but he pretty much blamed Reay 100% on their lack of success.
I can't say you and Bobby Hull are wrong for sure. There are a lot of people who could take the blame for Chicago not winning more Cups. But while Bobby Hull knows the truth better than me, he's also got a whole lot invested in blaming Reay. First, he needs to protect his own playoff reputation, and second, Reay and Hull clashed over Hull's style of play - no wonder Hull thinks Reay was the problem.

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12-02-2009, 01:30 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
I can't say you and Bobby Hull are wrong for sure. There are a lot of people who could take the blame for Chicago not winning more Cups. But while Bobby Hull knows the truth better than me, he's also got a whole lot invested in blaming Reay. First, he needs to protect his own playoff reputation, and second, Reay and Hull clashed over Hull's style of play - no wonder Hull thinks Reay was the problem.
Yeah, I'm not sure on Reay either... is he an average ATD coach, or is he less?

I just wanted to post that because I'm pretty sure he's not "fantastic", and not the best coach to not win a Cup.

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12-02-2009, 01:40 AM
  #31
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The best coach ever to not win a cup is Anatoly Tarasov.

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Old
12-02-2009, 09:43 AM
  #32
Rzeznik
 
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Originally Posted by Dreakmur View Post
Yeah, I'm not sure on Reay either... is he an average ATD coach, or is he less?

I just wanted to post that because I'm pretty sure he's not "fantastic", and not the best coach to not win a Cup.
Yeah, I was obviously being generous with my "fantastic coach" comment. He's an average ATD coach and even though he never won a Cup, he's been about as close as it gets. He's no Adams, but he's capable in an ATD context.

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12-02-2009, 04:12 PM
  #33
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As you said, Irvin isn't a shutdown centre. I'm not trying to sell him as one. What he is though, is a very capable two-way player
If I may ask- what evidence you have oin his two-way ability?

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12-03-2009, 02:51 AM
  #34
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After voting, I have to say, this series was the hardest for me to vote on. Great job to both teams.

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12-06-2009, 12:05 AM
  #35
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Now that the series is over, I thought I'd post the full article that I quoted from on Hamby Shore earlier. This is in the public domain, I believe, due to its age. From the Toronto Star, March 21, 1911.

"The Ottawa Hockey Club, champions of the world, and holders of the Stanley Cup, won out in the National Hockey Association this season with the remarkable record of thirteen wins and three losses. They won ten straight, and then through a series of accidents and illness dropped three in succession. The Ottawas followed, however, with a remarkable “come back,” winning the last two fixtures on their schedule with comparative ease. Many regard the present Ottawa team as the best professional team that Canada has ever produced since the new style of hockey was ushered into existence. They are, without a doubt, in the opinion of Ottawa people, the speediest skaters and the prettiest stickhandlers in the world.

It is rather interesting to note the fact that each of the Ottawa regulars started out in the hockey game as a forward, even Lesueur, the goalkeeper, breaking into the great game as a wing man. They say that every player must be a scorer, and in this respect the Ottawas fit the bill to perfection, for they are particularly fortunate in having six players, each of whom can break into the summary at any time.
The duty of the old defence man is past, and it is now essential that both the point and the cover-point should both be able to dash up to the line and participate in the attack. This, in fact, is one of Ottawa's secrets of success, for both Shore and Lake who play point and cover, were originally wing men. Each has a bullet-like shot and their ability to bore through and net a goal at a critical moment has pulled the Ottawas out of many a tight corner this winter. The Ottawas are the youngest and lightest team in the N.H.A, yet they far outclassed their opponents in this season's matches.

Percy Lesueur, captain and goalkeeper, is 27 years of age and weighs about 165 pounds. He was born in Quebec, but made his reputation as goalkeeper for the Smiths Falls team, from whom the Ottawas secured him in 1906. Lesueur has no superior as a net guardian. He coached the Columbia University hockey candidates last fall, and is given credit for the good showing of the New Yorkers in the American Intercollegiate League.

Fred Lake, the stock point man of the world's champions, is 29 years old and tips the beam at 178 pounds. Lake is a Winnipeg boy and was unfortunate in his first professional game, in losing the sight of his left eye. Lake is better than the average man with the sight of both optics, however, and is without a doubt the greatest point man in the professional game. He has played with Ottawa for three seasons, helping in that time to win two championships. Lake is very fast, and has a great shot, and is, above all, game.

Hamby Shore, cover-point, is 26 years of age and has been playing senior hockey since he was 18. Shore became a cover-point last year, and was one of this sensations this season of the Canadian league. Shore weighs about 150, being the lightest defence man in the N.H.A. He is an Ottawa boy and first came into prominence as a member of the Beaver Hockey Club of the City League.

Meteoric indeed has been the rise of Jack Darragh, the “kid” member of the champions, who plays rover. This time last year Darragh was playing in the district bush leagues. The Ottawas took a chacnce on trying him out last December, and Darragh immediately developed into a star of the highest magnitude. He is only 19 years old and his weight is about 155. Darragh is a lacrosse player of note.

Marty Walsh, centre, is the champion scorer of the National Hockey Association. Walsh is a graduate of Queen’s University, and was as an amateur one of the greatest outside wings in the Inter-Collegiate Football Union. He is 28 years old, and has been playing with the Ottawas for four seasons. Walsh, while not brilliant, is perhaps the hardest and most effective worker on the Ottawa team. He weighs 164.

Bruce Ridpath, right wing, is known as the aquatic wizard. Ridpath invented water boots before he came to professional hockey, and had the honor of appearing in his canoe stunts before the Emperor of Germany. Ridpath has walked across Toronto Bay in his water boots. He is a Toronto boy, schooled in the Ontario Hockey Association, and will likely captain the Toronto team next season in the N.H.A. if Toronto has a team. Ridpath is the smallest and lightest member of the Ottawa team. He weighs 140, and is 26 years old.

Albert Kerr, left wing, who is 23, weighs 160, and is without a doubt the fastest man in the N.H.A. As a wing player he has no superior. Kerr likewise carries the reputation of being the best-looking man in the league. He is a native of Brockville, Ont. and has been with the Ottawas for three years. The loss of the championship last year was attributed to the illness of Kerr, who was laid up with appendicitis.

Bruce Stuart and Alex Currie, utility men, are both well known. Stuart was for years captain of the Ottawa team. Currie is in his 23rd winter, and tips the beam at 160."

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