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Old
12-05-2009, 06:23 PM
  #51
Whitesnake
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Pleasantly surprised by him obviously. Needs to start having more confidence in the offensive zone and he'll be up in no time....though he'd need some help from Gainey as far as letting some guys go.

But a good overall job.

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Old
12-05-2009, 10:32 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
White has been really good. Nice surprise there. Personally I thought Pyatt was more convincing with the puck. Just a matter of opinion though.

I also really like Laraque's presence in the lineup. I find we look a lot more confident with him there. I know I'm a rare minority with that opinion but I have a sneaking suspicion JM likes him being around too because as far as I know he has not been a healthy scratch yet. I'd like to know what our record is with him in the lineup. Only big question mark is will his back hold up.

Hopefully this means that Sergei is good to go and that maybe Pouliot is also getting close to a return.
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Old
12-05-2009, 11:40 PM
  #53
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White was stirring the crap up tonite against the Marlies. He was sure getting under their skin. A fight and a roughing minor

The Dogs were all over Toronto (47 shots!) but lost in OT after a brutal turnover by Trotter with 21 seconds left. Toronto had just killed a penalty to Stalberg who came out of the box and scored about a minute later.

The Dogs could not capitalize on their chances

Sanford was not that great either

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Old
12-05-2009, 11:42 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
This is a tough call. I would imagine that laraque stays in the lineup considering the kind of team that is coming to town on monday. If skost is not ready, I could see pouliot drawing in.

OTOH, Martin may just opt to keep pouliot and pyatt waiting and stick with the same formula that got him the 5-1 victory.
What if the "formula" means dragging out all the Habs greats night after night . . .

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Old
12-05-2009, 11:47 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Jigger77 View Post
White has been really good. Nice surprise there. Personally I thought Pyatt was more convincing with the puck. Just a matter of opinion though.

I also really like Laraque's presence in the lineup. I find we look a lot more confident with him there. I know I'm a rare minority with that opinion but I have a sneaking suspicion JM likes him being around too because as far as I know he has not been a healthy scratch yet. I'd like to know what our record is with him in the lineup. Only big question mark is will his back hold up.

Hopefully this means that Sergei is good to go and that maybe Pouliot is also getting close to a return.
I'm with you brother....(no pun intended lol).....never underestimate the positive effect BGL brings for us.....it's for real.

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Old
12-06-2009, 12:07 AM
  #56
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Maybe it's just me but I prefer fourth liners to have an intimidation factor than speedy hardworking guys. I like Pyatt and White but when all the guys come back, I don't see what their use would be.

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Old
12-06-2009, 12:26 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by KimoGionta View Post
Maybe it's just me but I prefer fourth liners to have an intimidation factor than speedy hardworking guys. I like Pyatt and White but when all the guys come back, I don't see what their use would be.
Pyatt and White are different types of players.

White is a fourth liner type, hits everything that moves and intimidates, or at least bangs up, the opponents, hopefully without creating too many PK situations.

Pyatt is a shutdown type, like Doug Jarvis used to be. Right now, he is behind Metropolit and Lapierre on the depth chart at C, but nothing stops us from using Lappy or Metro on the wing, or even Pyatt on LW in a DEFENSIVE role. It all depends on exactly who may be unavailable in a given contest. His presence also pushes the other two to be at their best defensively.

For this reason, I find Pyatt more versatile and better suited to be one of the two spare forwards when everyone is healthy than White.

Personally, I'm not a big believer in the utility of Georges Laraque. Good teams will ignore his presence and simply play their game against us. For example, in both 05-06 and 07-08, the Habs played AGAINST Georges Laraque, and I don't think our club was intimidated or knocked off its game by BGL. On the other hand, a guy like Ryan White on the other team, constantly forechecking our D-men, would have more of a real world effect on the club and SOMETIMES wear us down or cause turnovers.

If by next year, White can be a clear upgrade over Tom Kostopoulos, he might have a place on our fourth line. At the same time, I like having at least one guy on the 4th line who can convert scoring chances.

The best fourth line of all time was Risebrough-Tremblay-Lambert. They hit and punished you while scoring at a rate of most teams' second lines. Maybe Pacioretty could end up being the Yvon Lambert of the line, only faster.

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12-06-2009, 01:01 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
Pyatt and White are different types of players.

White is a fourth liner type, hits everything that moves and intimidates, or at least bangs up, the opponents, hopefully without creating too many PK situations.

Pyatt is a shutdown type, like Doug Jarvis used to be. Right now, he is behind Metropolit and Lapierre on the depth chart at C, but nothing stops us from using Lappy or Metro on the wing, or even Pyatt on LW in a DEFENSIVE role. It all depends on exactly who may be unavailable in a given contest. His presence also pushes the other two to be at their best defensively.

For this reason, I find Pyatt more versatile and better suited to be one of the two spare forwards when everyone is healthy than White.

Personally, I'm not a big believer in the utility of Georges Laraque. Good teams will ignore his presence and simply play their game against us. For example, in both 05-06 and 07-08, the Habs played AGAINST Georges Laraque, and I don't think our club was intimidated or knocked off its game by BGL. On the other hand, a guy like Ryan White on the other team, constantly forechecking our D-men, would have more of a real world effect on the club and SOMETIMES wear us down or cause turnovers.

If by next year, White can be a clear upgrade over Tom Kostopoulos, he might have a place on our fourth line. At the same time, I like having at least one guy on the 4th line who can convert scoring chances.

The best fourth line of all time was Risebrough-Tremblay-Lambert. They hit and punished you while scoring at a rate of most teams' second lines. Maybe Pacioretty could end up being the Yvon Lambert of the line, only faster.
Laraque isn't there to throw the other team off of their game. What he does is provide enough of a presence that the other team doesn't spend the game running our smaller players. Boston has the size to physically beat an opponent up but I definitely noticed that with BGL in the line up they didn't seem too interested in playing a physically intimidating game.

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Old
12-06-2009, 06:07 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by bentheprop View Post
Laraque isn't there to throw the other team off of their game. What he does is provide enough of a presence that the other team doesn't spend the game running our smaller players. Boston has the size to physically beat an opponent up but I definitely noticed that with BGL in the line up they didn't seem too interested in playing a physically intimidating game.
In 07-08, with either Markov or the good Hamrlik on the ice for 52 minutes per game, the Habs won all 8 regular season games against Boston. On occasion, teams like Boston and Philadelphia took lots of penalties against the Habs, but the Habs did not back down and furthermore punished the penalty takers with a potent PP.

The truth is that the Habs have been and still are more vulnerable to an efficient forecheck than to a goon running around.

The thing is, this is true of other teams as well. So when we replace a faster guy who hits more often with a BGL, we are decreasing our own team's chances of profiting from forecheck pressure efficiency.

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12-06-2009, 06:14 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post
The truth is that the Habs have been and still are more vulnerable to an efficient forecheck than to a goon running around.

The thing is, this is true of other teams as well. So when we replace a faster guy who hits more often with a BGL, we are decreasing our own team's chances of profiting from forecheck pressure efficiency.
It's amazing to me that more people don't seem to realize this around here. Both paragraphs/points, I mean.

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Old
12-06-2009, 09:16 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BaseballCoach View Post

The best fourth line of all time was Risebrough-Tremblay-Lambert. They hit and punished you while scoring at a rate of most teams' second lines. Maybe Pacioretty could end up being the Yvon Lambert of the line, only faster.
They were our 2nd line for many years.

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Old
12-06-2009, 09:39 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by linp View Post
They were our 2nd line for many years.
The three together were never the second line.

The first two lines had Lafleur and Cournoyer taking up the two RW spots until Cournoyer retired, which coincided with the last year of the dynasty, by the way. Then Mark Napier took over as 2nd line RW.

Lafleur and Napier were the two top RWs until after Risebrough and Lambert had gone. In 83-84 Napier was traded, and Lafleur was gone by December 1984, and only then did Mario Tremblay become the RW on one of the top two lines, and this only for about one year, until his career-ending injury.

Looking at the C position, the top two offensive centres were Lemaire and Peter Mahovlich, then Mahovlich was traded for Larouche in 1978. After Lemaire retired, Pierre Mondou became #2 behind Larouche, and then Keith Acton replaced Larouche, and he and Mondou were #1/2 until Risebrough left.

The Jarvis-Gainey-RW (Houle/Wilson/Roberts/Chartraw) line was the 3rd (defensive) line from the day Doug Jarvis left Junior until the day he was traded after the 81-82 season.

Like I said earlier, Risebrough-Tremblay-Lambert was in fact the team's fourth line, but often scored like a 2nd line on most other teams. Lambert, it must be admitted, played on the PP units fairly often but not the other two. Tremblay did get some time on PP but only after Risebrough and Lambert left and Tremblay was in his later 20s.

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