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Old
12-06-2009, 01:27 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I could picture Sather doing something stupid, like trading Girardi+Higgins for Demitra+3rd.
I think Girardi, in a package, could get a better return. Sathers great one on one with the other GMS. Its his strength. It's the agents you have to worry about...$$$$

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Old
12-06-2009, 01:27 PM
  #52
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Depending on the price I would do it. I dont think he is the answer but if he could move Anisimov down a line and make this team deeper than go for it.

Disclaimer:
I am not specifically for Demitra, but I am for a bit of a shake-up. They have enough players that are redundant to move, players who most likely have a little value but will never get a true shot with this team ever or beyond this season.

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12-06-2009, 01:29 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
I wouldn't give up anything for Demitra.. Unless it was one of our three-headed cap-monsters.

Vancouver has about 2M in cap space. I could picture Sather doing something stupid, like trading Girardi+Higgins for Demitra+3rd.
Nice one

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12-06-2009, 01:31 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Chariot View Post
I think Girardi, in a package, could get a better return. Sathers great one on one with the other GMS. Its his strength. It's the agents you have to worry about...$$$$
His track record ultimately proves your point. You're absolutely right. But if these reports are true, it tells me Sather has a little pressure on him right now, and that's not the stance you want when making a trade.

Zherdev.. Bourret.. Ozolinsh.. Backman.. 2nd round pick for 25G rental in Antropov..

Sather isn't immune to making a bad trades. Like most trades, they're gambles, and they don't always work out.

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12-06-2009, 01:33 PM
  #55
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Nice one
Been saving that chestnut for awhile now.

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12-06-2009, 01:35 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by jimmythescot View Post
1. Demitra and Gaborik played for the Wild and (when they actually played) they were a great fit.
2. They're best buds. If the Sedins hadn't resigned, there is a very real possibility that Gaborik would be in Vancouver right now.
3. What on earth makes you think Demitra is a sniper? In the last two years he's had 35 goals and 72 assists in 137 games.

I'm not sure I want him to go because he is so versatile, and would make an amazing upgrade on Wellwood for the 3rd line centre (assuming Grabner doesn't come back cold)
I am not sure I can sign on for that. Like they hardly set the league on fire looking at the stats. Then you can argue that the Wild were "defensive", I don't know.

I really feel that Prospal have been a awesome fit with Gabby. I don't think Demitra have it in him to do what Prospal does. He is definitely not even remotely as good of a playmaker as Vinny.

Demitra offensively is pretty simular to Drury. He can fire the puck. Sure he can pass the puck, but is hardly a "play-maker". He is not overly fast. He doesn't get involved around the boards.

Like sure, if we have no other options -- he would help us for sure. But I wouldn't mind if we could get more of a playmaker.

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12-06-2009, 01:42 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I am not sure I can sign on for that. Like they hardly set the league on fire looking at the stats. Then you can argue that the Wild were "defensive", I don't know.

I really feel that Prospal have been a awesome fit with Gabby. I don't think Demitra have it in him to do what Prospal does. He is definitely not even remotely as good of a playmaker as Vinny.

Demitra offensively is pretty simular to Drury. He can fire the puck. Sure he can pass the puck, but is hardly a "play-maker". He is not overly fast. He doesn't get involved around the boards.

Like sure, if we have no other options -- he would help us for sure. But I wouldn't mind if we could get more of a playmaker.
Demitra's good for 30-40 assists per season. He's not a great playmaker, but he can create a little space and set things up.

I agree with what you're saying though Ola.. He's not the type of player that this team needs. Especially since Torts will probably play him with Gabs.

I'd be thrilled, with a 25/30 winger for our second line. Preferably on the left side. One with a little size. Ryan Malone type of player, w/o the cap-hit. I bet every single team in the league could use that though, so odds of obtaining one is pretty slim.

It would be ideal if we can move salary, and find a way to bring in a player like Versteeg. Two-part trade, obviously since neither team has the cap-space to pull off a fair trade w/o a difference in #'s..

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12-06-2009, 02:19 PM
  #58
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How bout we trade for Kovalchuk, then lock him up?

Ah, if it were only that easy

But seriously, as everyone knows, there are several things this team needs.

1.) More legitimate scoring threats. Gaborik is a superstar. Top 5 in the league. No one else is a legit 1st liner, and aside from Prospal, I don't think anyone is really a legit 2nd liner either. Maybe Drury?...he's on the cusp. Anisimov? So early, no one knows. Callahan? Better suited to a grinders, 3rd line role with a lot of minutes. I mean we really don't have anyone else that is a LEGIT top 6 forward, at least that I can see.

2.) Defense...christ, this is where I think it gets pretty bad. Del Zotto I love, Gilroy, despite his struggles, I think can be a great offensive Dman. Staal has had his growing pains, but has the tools. Girardi I think has topped out in terms of development, and IMO is nothing more than a #5 defender. Some games he looks decent, some games he looks god-awful, but he never really looks great. However, since he's young and affordable, he has some value, so perhaps he could be used to get some offense. Problem then becomes a hole on defense. Everyone knows the trials and tribulations of Rozy (HORRIBLE) and Redden (actually playing decently).

3.) All around toughness. We don't need 1 goon. We need 20 mean players who stand up for themselves and each other and their ******* goalie! My god, in my men's league if the goalie gets run, it's a brawl. But for the Rangers, if Henrik gets run repeatedly, everyone decides to sit around and play grab-ass. Same goes for Gaborik. In the Pittsburgh game, Gaborik, of all players, was the only one willing to get into a scrum, and I think he got into 2 or 3, because no one else was standing up for him. We need some toughness, not goonery, but toughness from top to bottom...man I was we could have Mara back.

Unfortunately, based on the salary cap situation, it is relatively difficult to make any big moves, unless some team really needs a change, and is willing to take on one of our bad contracts.

This team reminds me a lot in some instances of our 2005 team where everyone went to Jagr, except Straka was a better 2nd fiddle than anyone we have now (though Prospal has been good enough), and Nylander, despite his annoyances, did pretty well.

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Old
12-06-2009, 02:24 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
His track record ultimately proves your point. You're absolutely right. But if these reports are true, it tells me Sather has a little pressure on him right now, and that's not the stance you want when making a trade.

Zherdev.. Bourret.. Ozolinsh.. Backman.. 2nd round pick for 25G rental in Antropov..

Sather isn't immune to making a bad trades. Like most trades, they're gambles, and they don't always work out.
I don't really think that the Zherdev, Backman, or Ozolinsh trades were horrible. You're not going to win every trade you make.

The Zherdev trade was actually a smart way to move Backman's contract and get a player that had a ton of upside to him in Zherdev. Z got us 60 points and our team would've been lost without him last year. He was much more valuable to our team, IMO, than Tyutin would've been that year, and probably would be now even. He had a horrible start in Columbus this year...god knows it would've been worse if he was on the Rangers still.

I think the Antropov trade is a wash too, because I feel like with Antropov you were getting a first hand look at whether or not you wanted to re-sign him, and not re-signing him is the problem, not so much the trade.

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12-06-2009, 03:23 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I don't really think that the Zherdev, Backman, or Ozolinsh trades were horrible. You're not going to win every trade you make.
Gotta disagree.

3rd round pick of Bozo.. He was on the verge of being washed-up at the time, and the gamble failed. Look at the list of successful 3rd round picks that are current NHL players. It's sickening.

4th round pick for Backman.. At the time, I think the better option would have been keep the pick, promote from within. 4th round pick isn't much, but there's at least some type of long-term potential with it, unlike Backman.

Tyutin, for Zherdev trade wasn't really a horrible trade, but things didn't pan out in our favor. Zherdev put up points, but simply didn't fit Renney's scheme. And we all know how Torts felt about him when he took over. I think Zherdev would have helped this current team a lot more than last season's team, but the hell with that. Zherdev, and his agent, made a stupid decision that cost them, and us.

Toots on the other hand, is playing fantastic hockey right now offensively, and defensively. And he's signed until 2012 for under 3M. And he's still, only 26 years old.



Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
The Zherdev trade was actually a smart way to move Backman's contract and get a player that had a ton of upside to him in Zherdev. Z got us 60 points and our team would've been lost without him last year. He was much more valuable to our team, IMO, than Tyutin would've been that year, and probably would be now even. He had a horrible start in Columbus this year...god knows it would've been worse if he was on the Rangers still.
We wouldn't have had to move Backman's contract if Sather didn't make the mistake of acquiring him. And Toots is a much more valuable asset today, than Zherdev.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerFan10 View Post
I think the Antropov trade is a wash too, because I feel like with Antropov you were getting a first hand look at whether or not you wanted to re-sign him, and not re-signing him is the problem, not so much the trade.
Again, we weren't legitimate contenders last year. That was a late season desperation move to make the playoffs. Did it work? Kind of.. We got to see Antropov first-hand, and got to play 7 games in the post season. Personally, I think the correct move at the time, was to SELL during the dead-line, and reload for tomorrow. I know many people here, feel the same way.

Regarding Antropov.. I was crazy about him here, but he put up points. 7G, 6A, in 18 games. He has size. He can play on the first line. He can play Wing, and Center.

We have Kotalik instead. Yea, yea.. Kotalik has a friendlier contract, but when you break it down, the 1M a year difference, for 1 more season, would have been a much wiser spent on Antropov.

Bad asset management. I know it's not always going to work out, but Sather should have known better than to gamble away picks that he knew wouldn't have made a dramatic difference with this franchise's ultimate goal; A Cup.

He hasn't made many errors, but he hasn't been as invincible as some here think when it comes down to trades. Even this season, with this current team, you know he's going to try and improve us somehow. But that move isn't going to bring the Cup.

Proper move here, is wait until the dead-line, and become Sellers.

Pass on Demitra, and every other 30+ veteran with multiple question marks to their games.

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12-06-2009, 03:35 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Proper move here, is wait until the dead-line, and become Sellers.
If we're anywhere near playoff contention, you know that that move is just not going to be acceptable in New York.

We spend a lot of time criticizing Sather, saying he should do this, do that, he sucks, blah blah but in all reality only one team wins the cup each year. He's put us in the playoffs every year after the lockout, and we've had some teams in my mind that could've gone to the finals had we gotten a bounce or two (especially the year we lost to the Sabres, 2007 finals i believe that was.)

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12-06-2009, 03:49 PM
  #62
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Rozsival was a No 1 d-man by default. He's lost that role to a 19 year old. Even so--his ceiling was 40 points which is okay but hardly spectacular especially considering all the pwp time he had when Jagr was here.
No he did not loose his no 1 spot to a 19 y/o. It wasn't until Torts came in that he lost his nr 1 spot. If you think Staal was better then him at the age of 19, its your right. But nobody can argue that Staal was our nr 1 D, thats like arguing that your 3rd line center is your 1st line center. Its not correct. But, he should never have been a top PPQB to start with. So I don't disagree there.

But he was our nr 1 D for 4 years, and there were plenty of other NHL teams where he would have been a nr 1 D too. I know its hard to believe, but thats how it is. Take Tom Poti for example. According to many he was one of the worst D's in the league. Then he left us and was the nr 1 D for 2 teams and 3 years. And he still have a very big role for Washington. He is 2nd overall in ice time for them.

My point is just, I think he is moveble. Just like Gomez was.

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12-06-2009, 04:04 PM
  #63
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Alexander Semin? Could we get him this summer? He's a legit offensive force that we could really really use.

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12-06-2009, 04:04 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
No he did not loose his no 1 spot to a 19 y/o. It wasn't until Torts came in that he lost his nr 1 spot. If you think Staal was better then him at the age of 19, its your right. But nobody can argue that Staal was our nr 1 D, thats like arguing that your 3rd line center is your 1st line center. Its not correct. But, he should never have been a top PPQB to start with. So I don't disagree there.

But he was our nr 1 D for 4 years, and there were plenty of other NHL teams where he would have been a nr 1 D too. I know its hard to believe, but thats how it is. Take Tom Poti for example. According to many he was one of the worst D's in the league. Then he left us and was the nr 1 D for 2 teams and 3 years. And he still have a very big role for Washington. He is 2nd overall in ice time for them.

My point is just, I think he is moveble. Just like Gomez was.
I don't look at Staal as a No. 1 either. I look at him right now as a decent first pairing shutdown defender who should get better as he matures--he reminds me of Langway. There's no doubt that Rozsival was getting tons of ice time with Renney and he was a defacto No. 1 for us but just because he got the premium ice time doesn't mean he wasn't always a bit over his head per his job description--at least that's my opinion. To me he had the talent of a good two way top four guy. He's regressed the last two years--some of which may have to do with how Tortorella uses him.

I see him as very moveable as well but the Rangers may have to take someone else back or give something else up that they might not be all that jazzed about.

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12-06-2009, 04:12 PM
  #65
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Alexander Semin? Could we get him this summer? He's a legit offensive force that we could really really use.
Washington will lock him up. With Nylander gone, I think they'll have the room to keep him.

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12-06-2009, 04:21 PM
  #66
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Alexander Semin? Could we get him this summer? He's a legit offensive force that we could really really use.
"He's beatin' the drums!"

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12-06-2009, 04:54 PM
  #67
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Washington will lock him up. With Nylander gone, I think they'll have the room to keep him.
its a shame too, he might be the most under-the-radar player in the national hockey league.

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12-06-2009, 05:00 PM
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"He's beatin' the drums!"
wasnt that backstrom?

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12-06-2009, 05:02 PM
  #69
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wasnt that backstrom?
Nope semin

and he's more injury prone than gaborik

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12-06-2009, 05:02 PM
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wasnt that backstrom?
No.


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12-06-2009, 05:17 PM
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damn, coulda sworn it was backstrom, either way, always hilarious :-D

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12-06-2009, 05:27 PM
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Here we go again. **** you Glen Sather. Leave the ******* team alone and give the whole building from within concept a try. As great as 94 was, it was also the turning point for this franchise because it proved that it is possible to buy/trade for a cup. Now, 15 years later we're still trying to do the same thing, albeit with a salary cap, which is exactly why were in the same situation every year. Its too predictable. Every year we make it a point to be the July champs with our free agent signings and roster overhauls. Then we start off hot, lose a few game and then Sather starts looking to make trades.

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12-06-2009, 05:30 PM
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IMO, The Rags don't want Demitra, they already have Demitra+ in Prospal. His shoulder is held together by warm noodles. He and Gillis are personal friends. His move to Vancouver the city was as much his reason for joining the Nucks as his playing for the team. As much as a lot of Nuck fans hate the guy, we aren't some powerhouse that can't make use of him, even if just for depth in the PO. Someone tell SuperEklund to tie a noose and pack it in.

-Isn't Dubinsky almost back anyways, why would Sather not at least see what impact his return has on the team before acquiring something off the scrap heap?


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12-06-2009, 05:36 PM
  #74
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wasnt that backstrom?
Backstrom isn't a puss, watch the first 1:20 of the game 3 video.


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12-06-2009, 05:40 PM
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Gotta disagree.

3rd round pick of Bozo.. He was on the verge of being washed-up at the time, and the gamble failed. Look at the list of successful 3rd round picks that are current NHL players. It's sickening.

4th round pick for Backman.. At the time, I think the better option would have been keep the pick, promote from within. 4th round pick isn't much, but there's at least some type of long-term potential with it, unlike Backman.

Tyutin, for Zherdev trade wasn't really a horrible trade, but things didn't pan out in our favor. Zherdev put up points, but simply didn't fit Renney's scheme. And we all know how Torts felt about him when he took over. I think Zherdev would have helped this current team a lot more than last season's team, but the hell with that. Zherdev, and his agent, made a stupid decision that cost them, and us.

Toots on the other hand, is playing fantastic hockey right now offensively, and defensively. And he's signed until 2012 for under 3M. And he's still, only 26 years old.





We wouldn't have had to move Backman's contract if Sather didn't make the mistake of acquiring him. And Toots is a much more valuable asset today, than Zherdev.




Again, we weren't legitimate contenders last year. That was a late season desperation move to make the playoffs. Did it work? Kind of.. We got to see Antropov first-hand, and got to play 7 games in the post season. Personally, I think the correct move at the time, was to SELL during the dead-line, and reload for tomorrow. I know many people here, feel the same way.

Regarding Antropov.. I was crazy about him here, but he put up points. 7G, 6A, in 18 games. He has size. He can play on the first line. He can play Wing, and Center.

We have Kotalik instead. Yea, yea.. Kotalik has a friendlier contract, but when you break it down, the 1M a year difference, for 1 more season, would have been a much wiser spent on Antropov.

Bad asset management. I know it's not always going to work out, but Sather should have known better than to gamble away picks that he knew wouldn't have made a dramatic difference with this franchise's ultimate goal; A Cup.

He hasn't made many errors, but he hasn't been as invincible as some here think when it comes down to trades. Even this season, with this current team, you know he's going to try and improve us somehow. But that move isn't going to bring the Cup.

Proper move here, is wait until the dead-line, and become Sellers.

Pass on Demitra, and every other 30+ veteran with multiple question marks to their games.
Agreed. This is a transition year for the Rangers. First season under the new coach...needs some time to get the right guys to fit his system. That and there just isn't a lot of skill on the roster outside of Gaborik. What the team and fans need to demonstrate is PATIENCE. I'll be happier if we stay the course and keep building a solid core for the next 5+ years than if they revert to old habits and go for the win now mentality. We all know that doesn't work...but sometimes teams just can't help themselves.

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