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Old
12-06-2009, 06:06 PM
  #76
Inferno
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I think the old become sellers at the deadline is a defeatest attitude.

We arent the Canes, we arent in dead last place, stop friggin exaggerating about our position, as of right now we are only 5 points from having home ice advantage in the first round of the playoffs.

you become sellers if you are absolutely out of contention, otherwise, with a goalie like Henrik, and a star like Gaborik, you try to make moves to help you this year w/o sacrificing next year.

Sometimes the best thign to do is stand pat.

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12-06-2009, 06:35 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
I think the old become sellers at the deadline is a defeatest attitude.

We arent the Canes, we arent in dead last place, stop friggin exaggerating about our position, as of right now we are only 5 points from having home ice advantage in the first round of the playoffs.

you become sellers if you are absolutely out of contention, otherwise, with a goalie like Henrik, and a star like Gaborik, you try to make moves to help you this year w/o sacrificing next year.

Sometimes the best thign to do is stand pat.
I'm all for standing pat. I'm not interested in in trading 2nd round picks for guys who will wear the sweater for a month and won't really make much of a difference. But it's only the first week of December. If we're 10 points out with a month to go I don't see the harm in being a seller.

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Old
12-07-2009, 12:15 AM
  #78
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Go back to the 1st post in this thread -- Ranger Boy nailed it when he said that Demitra and Gaborik DID NOT mesh in Minneapolis. I watched that dance up close for two years and I can tell you that the door couldn't hit Demitra in the ass quick enough when his contract was up. He's a shadow of the player he was 6-7 years ago and everyone in the league -- including Sather -- knows it.

And another point -- you need to start here by applying the Garrioch discount to anything he writes. He's really no better or more reliable than Eklund as a source.

Sure Sather wants to ignite the team. And sure he's working the phones. I'm guessing he's trying to find teams that want to make moves now rather than wait. I'll never try to guess the exact deals he is trying to make but three logical trading partners right now are 1. St. Louis (their defense handles the puck like it is a grenade and they have several pieces that could help the Rangers. This could be a landing spot for Bobby Sanguinetti if the Rangers are so inclined), 2. Edmonton (You've got the Renney factor and a need to shake things up. Would they take Rozsival? Would the Rangers take Souray?) and 3. Carolina (Sather and Jim Rutherford are regular trading partners and the Hurricanes seem to be resigned to competing for the first overall draft choice) There are a lot of teams that are still waiting to see where their teams shake out before making any deals.

Should be an interetsing few weeks.


Last edited by bobbop: 12-07-2009 at 12:33 AM.
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Old
12-07-2009, 12:28 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmythescot View Post
1. Demitra and Gaborik played for the Wild and (when they actually played) they were a great fit.
You're kidding, right?

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12-07-2009, 12:37 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
I'd move a contract, a B level prospect, and a lower pick (3rd round maybe?) for Demitra.

Oerpayment for a guy who is coming of shoulder surgeries and is also UFA at the ned of the season. If we were contending and were looking for a player to bolster the lineup then Demitra could make sense otherwise no thanks.

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Old
12-07-2009, 06:11 AM
  #81
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The holiday roster freeze begins midnight at local time on December 19 and it ends on December 27 midnight at local time.

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13.15 Holiday Roster Freeze. For all Players on an NHL Active Roster, Injured
Reserve, or Players with Non-Roster and Injured Non-Roster status as of midnight local
time December 19, a roster freeze shall apply through midnight local time December 27,
with respect to Waivers, Trades and Loans; provided, however, that Players may be
Recalled to NHL Clubs during this period and, provided further, that if a Player is placed
on Regular Waivers or Re-Entry Waivers prior to the roster freeze period and is claimed
during such roster freeze period, the roster freeze period shall not apply and the Player
shall immediately report to the claiming Club. However, during the roster freeze period a
Club can make any Player transact ions necessary for the Club to come into compliance
with Art icle 50 as a result of a Player being removed from the Bona Fide Long-Term
Injury/Illness Exception.

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12-07-2009, 06:16 AM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Washington will lock him up. With Nylander gone, I think they'll have the room to keep him.
His agent Mark Gandler wants a lot of money for Semin. Gandler is threatening the Caps with the KHL and it won't be the first time McPhee and Gandler had a major disagreement regarding Semin.

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12-07-2009, 06:27 AM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Gotta disagree.

3rd round pick of Bozo.. He was on the verge of being washed-up at the time, and the gamble failed. Look at the list of successful 3rd round picks that are current NHL players. It's sickening.

4th round pick for Backman.. At the time, I think the better option would have been keep the pick, promote from within. 4th round pick isn't much, but there's at least some type of long-term potential with it, unlike Backman.

Tyutin, for Zherdev trade wasn't really a horrible trade, but things didn't pan out in our favor. Zherdev put up points, but simply didn't fit Renney's scheme. And we all know how Torts felt about him when he took over. I think Zherdev would have helped this current team a lot more than last season's team, but the hell with that. Zherdev, and his agent, made a stupid decision that cost them, and us.

Toots on the other hand, is playing fantastic hockey right now offensively, and defensively. And he's signed until 2012 for under 3M. And he's still, only 26 years old.
.
The biggest issue with Ozo was his salary and the fact he had a bad knee.The price wasn't the problem. Look at all of the wasted 2nd and 3rd round picks in every draft. The draft is the lifeblood of every team but you can't pin your hopes on draft picks. If a team can hit on the 1st round pick and pull 1 or 2 more players which play in the NHL,it's a very good draft.

Toots is struggling in Columbus. That entire team is in bad way right now. On the Rangers,Tyutin joins the list of defensemen on the team. The Rangers wouldn't be better or worse if Tyutin was here or not. Sather gave him that contract.

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Old
12-07-2009, 07:09 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbop View Post
Go back to the 1st post in this thread -- Ranger Boy nailed it when he said that Demitra and Gaborik DID NOT mesh in Minneapolis. I watched that dance up close for two years and I can tell you that the door couldn't hit Demitra in the ass quick enough when his contract was up. He's a shadow of the player he was 6-7 years ago and everyone in the league -- including Sather -- knows it.

And another point -- you need to start here by applying the Garrioch discount to anything he writes. He's really no better or more reliable than Eklund as a source.

Sure Sather wants to ignite the team. And sure he's working the phones. I'm guessing he's trying to find teams that want to make moves now rather than wait. I'll never try to guess the exact deals he is trying to make but three logical trading partners right now are 1. St. Louis (their defense handles the puck like it is a grenade and they have several pieces that could help the Rangers. This could be a landing spot for Bobby Sanguinetti if the Rangers are so inclined), 2. Edmonton (You've got the Renney factor and a need to shake things up. Would they take Rozsival? Would the Rangers take Souray?) and 3. Carolina (Sather and Jim Rutherford are regular trading partners and the Hurricanes seem to be resigned to competing for the first overall draft choice) There are a lot of teams that are still waiting to see where their teams shake out before making any deals.

Should be an interetsing few weeks.
as usual, good post.

agree that slats will look to his cronies to dance with.

these are my top 5 names in play going forward.

higgins
dubinsky
sanguinetti
girardi
rozsival

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Old
12-07-2009, 07:48 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
His agent Mark Gandler wants a lot of money for Semin. Gandler is threatening the Caps with the KHL and it won't be the first time McPhee and Gandler had a major disagreement regarding Semin.
AO is the #1 priority in Washington. I'd have to think they'll bend over, at least a bit, in order to keep his best friend around.

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12-07-2009, 12:10 PM
  #86
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Canucks get: Higgins, Girardi
Rangers get: Demitra, O'Brien

Demitra gives the Rangers an offensive setup man to play with Gaborik and O'Brien adds size and toughness to the backend.

Higgins could use a change of scenery to see if he can get his game back on track and Girardi gives the Canucks a puck moving d-man whom the Rangers may not be able to resign considering their plethora of young dman coming up through their system

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12-07-2009, 12:14 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbullet View Post
Canucks get: Higgins, Girardi
Rangers get: Demitra, O'Brien
Higgins and Girardi could get a better return than an injury prone pending UFA and a 7th d-man.

If Demitra is a realistic option, Rozsival is probably going the other way. Higgins has much more value than Demitra despite the fact he's not scoring. The "Demitra + Gaborik = Offense" idea was pretty well debunked in Minnesota. Not sure why people think there's some sort of connection there.

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Old
12-07-2009, 12:24 PM
  #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
AO is the #1 priority in Washington. I'd have to think they'll bend over, at least a bit, in order to keep his best friend around.

Nylander's huge contract will be up and so will Three-or-more's. Also, the rest of the players signed in the off-season, Morrison and Knuble, were one year contracts. So they should have plenty of room to re-sign Semin and Backstrom (both contracts are up at season's end). Which is also another reason why he would not re-sign Brashear. He didn't want to sign him for more than a year. The Washington GM has been preparing Cap space to keep Semin and Backstrom.
Although, Semin and his agent did threaten to go to the KHL. Semin might go there regardless of pay. It is rumored that he does not like the States. And has still not bothered learning English.

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12-07-2009, 12:41 PM
  #89
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When I hear shake up, I think subtraction... not addition. Of course the player coming back is always important, but when you shake it up I think the player leaving is more important. To me that says Kotalik, Lisin, Girardi, Roszival and maybe Dubinsky. Basically players in the doghouse who aren't responding, which is why I didn't include Boyle and why I'm reluctant to name Dubinsky.

I think Sather has his feelers out there testing potential returns. But I don't see anything happening just yet. I think the staff wants to see who reponds to adversity and who quits on the team.

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12-07-2009, 01:12 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
When I hear shake up, I think subtraction... not addition. Of course the player coming back is always important, but when you shake it up I think the player leaving is more important. To me that says Kotalik, Lisin, Girardi, Roszival and maybe Dubinsky. Basically players in the doghouse who aren't responding, which is why I didn't include Boyle and why I'm reluctant to name Dubinsky.

I think Sather has his feelers out there testing potential returns. But I don't see anything happening just yet. I think the staff wants to see who reponds to adversity and who quits on the team.
At this point I think you have to add Higgins to that list--the reason being he's a pending UFA and his production doesn't merit what he's getting now let along what he might get as an UFA. From what I've seen so far he's not a guy that I'd make much of an effort to re-sign.

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12-07-2009, 01:36 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Toots on the other hand, is playing fantastic hockey right now offensively, and defensively. And he's signed until 2012 for under 3M. And he's still, only 26 years old.
What games are you watching? I watched four CBJ games ( if you count the one against us) in the last 2 weeks and he was still making the same mistakes he made when he was here.


"Fantastic" is a stretch. He's been OK. He wouldnt make or break this current Rangers team in the standings.

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12-07-2009, 01:43 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The biggest issue with Ozo was his salary and the fact he had a bad knee.The price wasn't the problem. Look at all of the wasted 2nd and 3rd round picks in every draft. The draft is the lifeblood of every team but you can't pin your hopes on draft picks. If a team can hit on the 1st round pick and pull 1 or 2 more players which play in the NHL,it's a very good draft.

Toots is struggling in Columbus. That entire team is in bad way right now. On the Rangers,Tyutin joins the list of defensemen on the team. The Rangers wouldn't be better or worse if Tyutin was here or not. Sather gave him that contract.

LOL I didnt even see this post. Tyutin is decent but still gets overrated around here

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Old
12-07-2009, 04:47 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
At this point I think you have to add Higgins to that list--the reason being he's a pending UFA and his production doesn't merit what he's getting now let along what he might get as an UFA. From what I've seen so far he's not a guy that I'd make much of an effort to re-sign.
I actually purposely left him off the list. I could be way off base, I did after all bank on Dawes getting 25+ goals last year. But I do think that Higgins is turning the corner. See, for me when a team struggles especially with identity and complete efforts, you have to put aside statistics. I'd rather focus on effort, drive, work ethic and attention to details. I think that Higgins, Drury and Avery have been the best forwards of late, stats won't back that up but their effort and play may give me some stable groiund.

I remember seeing or hearing that Higgins is 2nd in chances and while its disappointing that he can't finish, it is encouraging that he is succeeding in a sense in Tortorella's system. With some confidence, luck or even a change in sticks, Higgins could get to 15 or 20 goals this season. It could be that simple. I'd be willing to stick with him. at worst he walks away at the end of the year, we fill his spot with a Grachev and use the spare change to get breathing room with the cap. Or you can trade him for another redundant prospect or a contract that has more time/money on it.

But as I was saying about the shake up, jettising a guy that shows effort and a modicum of success is not a good message IMO. You are basically saying that you can float and be indifferent like Kotalik and stay, but if you try, grind, battle but hit too many posts, you're gone. Let's identify the problem with the team, then cut out the players that personify those problems the most. If finish is our biggest issue, then yeah, let's move Higgins. If playing smart, playing tough and working are the problems, then I'd look elsewhere first.

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Old
12-07-2009, 05:31 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
as usual, good post.

agree that slats will look to his cronies to dance with.

these are my top 5 names in play going forward.

higgins
dubinsky
sanguinetti
girardi
rozsival
I'd say add Callahan to this list as well as Staal. Both guys have more value than anyone on that list, have been underachieving this year, and could probably net us some very good offensive talent in the right package. Staal is up for a raise soon, so I think we could afford to let him go given our depth in defense prospects.

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Old
12-07-2009, 05:37 PM
  #95
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I like the trade for Semin idea if Kovalchuk ends up not being a possibility.

Then again he strikes me as the kind of player who, after being "the other guy" for half a decade would want to go to a team like Nashville where he can be "the guy"

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Old
12-07-2009, 10:10 PM
  #96
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Is this The Master Plan of Dark Slather?

TRANSACTIONS
Rozie + Dubinsky + Kundratek + 4th rounder to The Desert for Jovocop + Mueller
Kotalik + Girardi + Potter + Vally + ?? to Olympic City for OŽBrien + Demitra + Raycroft
Waive/demote/trade Voros + Christensen
Trade Brashear for whatever to wherever

FORWARDS
Marian Gaborik ($7.500m) / * Vinny Prospal ($1.150m) / * Pavol Demitra ($4.000m)
Sean Avery ($1.938m) / * Peter Mueller ($1.700m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m)
* Chris Higgins ($2.250m) / Artem Anisimov ($0.822m) / Ryan Callahan ($2.300m)
* Enver Lisin ($0.790m) / Brian Boyle ($0.525m) / * Dane Byers ($0.500m)

* Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
* Jovocop ($6.500m) / * Marc Staal ($0.826m)
Wade Redden ($6.500m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)
Matt Gilroy ($1.750m) / * Shane OBrien ($1.600m)

Heikkenen, Sangs or Dandenault as ev callups for injuries

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / * Raycroft ($0.500m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $56.663m; CAP ROOM: $0.350m BONUSES: $0.212m

Plenty of playing chips (some perhaps untouchable) left at the deadline:
  • Sangs
  • Stepan
  • Grachev
  • Kreider
  • Werek
  • Borque
  • Doyle
  • McD
  • Sauer

UFAs next year
  • Staal (resign) 0,826 M
    Prospal (resign ?) 1,150 M
    Demitra 4,000 M
    Higgins 2,250 M
    OBrien 1,600 M
    Raycroft 0,500 M

RFAs
  • Mueller
    Lisin

Big contracts left
Jovocop 1 year left - expires 2011 6.500 M
Drury 2 years left - expires 2012 7.050 M
Lundqvist 4 years left - expires 2014 6.875 M
Gaborik 4 years left - expires 2014 7.500 M

I doubt he could pull of the above trades though - not even sure if they give any advantages...

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Old
12-07-2009, 10:14 PM
  #97
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I like the trade for Semin idea if Kovalchuk ends up not being a possibility.

Then again he strikes me as the kind of player who, after being "the other guy" for half a decade would want to go to a team like Nashville where he can be "the guy"
He's a wonderful #2 option on a team. No team with him as "The guy" scares me, though. And I doubt Alex Semin would ever want to go to Nashville.

I doubt he leaves Washington anyway. He's Ovechkin's pal, and they already had to part with Fedorov and Kozlov. Ovy needs a Russian or two or else he might get cranky.

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12-07-2009, 10:49 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by sdbullet View Post
Canucks get: Higgins, Girardi
Rangers get: Demitra, O'Brien

Demitra gives the Rangers an offensive setup man to play with Gaborik and O'Brien adds size and toughness to the backend.

Higgins could use a change of scenery to see if he can get his game back on track and Girardi gives the Canucks a puck moving d-man whom the Rangers may not be able to resign considering their plethora of young dman coming up through their system
I think Higgins is more valuable than Demitra and Girardi is 10x better than wannabe toughguy O'brien. Although if Higgins is still stuggling to score come deadline day I wouldn't be surprised to see him in a deal for someone like Demitra.

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Old
12-07-2009, 10:57 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
TRANSACTIONS
Rozie + Dubinsky + Kundratek + 4th rounder to The Desert for Jovocop + Mueller
Kotalik + Girardi + Potter + Vally + ?? to Olympic City for OŽBrien + Demitra + Raycroft
Waive/demote/trade Voros + Christensen
Trade Brashear for whatever to wherever

FORWARDS
Marian Gaborik ($7.500m) / * Vinny Prospal ($1.150m) / * Pavol Demitra ($4.000m)
Sean Avery ($1.938m) / * Peter Mueller ($1.700m) / Chris Drury ($7.050m)
* Chris Higgins ($2.250m) / Artem Anisimov ($0.822m) / Ryan Callahan ($2.300m)
* Enver Lisin ($0.790m) / Brian Boyle ($0.525m) / * Dane Byers ($0.500m)

* Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau ($0.500m)

DEFENSEMEN
* Jovocop ($6.500m) / * Marc Staal ($0.826m)
Wade Redden ($6.500m) / Michael Del Zotto ($1.087m)
Matt Gilroy ($1.750m) / * Shane OBrien ($1.600m)

Heikkenen, Sangs or Dandenault as ev callups for injuries

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m) / * Raycroft ($0.500m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS
ROSTER: 21; PAYROLL: $56.663m; CAP ROOM: $0.350m BONUSES: $0.212m

Plenty of playing chips (some perhaps untouchable) left at the deadline:
  • Sangs
  • Stepan
  • Grachev
  • Kreider
  • Werek
  • Borque
  • Doyle
  • McD
  • Sauer

UFAs next year
  • Staal (resign) 0,826 M
    Prospal (resign ?) 1,150 M
    Demitra 4,000 M
    Higgins 2,250 M
    OBrien 1,600 M
    Raycroft 0,500 M

RFAs
  • Mueller
    Lisin

Big contracts left
Jovocop 1 year left - expires 2011 6.500 M
Drury 2 years left - expires 2012 7.050 M
Lundqvist 4 years left - expires 2014 6.875 M
Gaborik 4 years left - expires 2014 7.500 M

I doubt he could pull of the above trades though - not even sure if they give any advantages...

Impressive work....


I would like OBrien and I think he could be had...but thats a lot to give up for that package no?

I think Jovo has been asked and declined to waive his NTC before....

Not so sure Higgy is playing himself into a re-sign either. Although there is lots of hockey left to play.

Interesting ideas though...very nice

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Old
12-07-2009, 11:01 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SomE View Post
Girardi is 10x better than wannabe toughguy O'brien.
I do think Girardi is the better overall player, but O brien would be bring something this team still sorely lacks. I've heard conflicting reports on Shane. He doesnt want to fight as much or He has been told not to fight as much..? regardless players know he can hit and can do some damage. We really don't have anyone on the team like this except the oft injured Donald

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