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Best Canadien player in Europe

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Old
12-01-2009, 12:59 AM
  #51
jekoh
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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Exactly
So you agree the 2009 all star is not any better than him then, or what?

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Old
12-01-2009, 08:35 AM
  #52
Zine
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Originally Posted by CanadaBacon View Post
Look at the two rosters ffs. Canada Spen team 2008, AHL Canadian All-star team 2009. It is quite obvious where the most talent is.


Keyword: FORMER.




There’s nothing to suggest many Spengler Cup players wouldn’t be all-stars if they played in AHL…..especially considering many were NHL level when they left for Europe.

In fact, one could say many current AHL all-stars are only in that position because many former all-stars decided to play in Europe.

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12-01-2009, 08:56 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
In terms of measuring overall national depth, in my opinion the IIHF survey of players is probably the best sample area, followed by NHL statistics, probably followed by WJC results, followed by the results of the men's tournaments that had a high participation rate by the top players from each country, and so on. The reason I say the WJC is because it is played relatively frequently and generally the participation rate is high for the top players of that age group.

There is no such thing as the perfect statistical source, there will be anomalies in every one of them, but the key is to find the broadest source of data available. The essence of my argument is that on average people are inherently equal, to which I hope you'd agree.

If you feel you have a better source of data, then please share it with us.

I agree somewhat then. Problem is you were claiming NHL/IIHF correlation as being fact (i.e. ‘it’s directly proportional’) when it really isn’t. I think it can be used as a starting point, but anything beyond that is off the mark.


Of course people are inherently equal. However, I believe some countries have better development systems for producing skill sets that conform to a certain style of game......and that ultimately effects 'talent depth' based on what style of game is being played.

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12-03-2009, 06:07 AM
  #54
Mr Kanadensisk
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Originally Posted by Zine View Post
I agree somewhat then. Problem is you were claiming NHL/IIHF correlation as being fact (i.e. ‘it’s directly proportional’) when it really isn’t. I think it can be used as a starting point, but anything beyond that is off the mark.


Of course people are inherently equal. However, I believe some countries have better development systems for producing skill sets that conform to a certain style of game......and that ultimately effects 'talent depth' based on what style of game is being played.
I agree that naturally some countries will have better development systems than others and also that over time it will change back and forth with whoever is doing the best job. My only concern is that people have to be realistic about how much better one development program is over another. Probably 5, 10 or even 15% better is achievable, but too often people on these boards make claims that would have their countries per capita development system 200, 300, or 400% better than others which in my mind is a load of bs.


Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 12-03-2009 at 01:04 PM.
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12-04-2009, 09:04 AM
  #55
jepjepjoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
In terms of measuring overall national depth, in my opinion the IIHF survey of players is probably the best sample area, followed by NHL statistics, probably followed by WJC results, followed by the results of the men's tournaments that had a high participation rate by the top players from each country, and so on. The reason I say the WJC is because it is played relatively frequently and generally the participation rate is high for the top players of that age group.

There is no such thing as the perfect statistical source, there will be anomalies in every one of them, but the key is to find the broadest source of data available. The essence of my argument is that on average people are inherently equal, to which I hope you'd agree.

If you feel you have a better source of data, then please share it with us.
My reply from the main board regarding that data:

"Those Numbers have to be somewhat incorrect. Finland has only 27 outdoor rinks?!

Senior player numbers and their % of total players:

Canada 88,954 17,8%
Czech Republic 62,487 64,3%"

"There would have had to been over 200 000 more Czech players 20 years ago to explain the difference when comparing to Canada. That would make 3% of the Czech population hockey players which really doesn´t sound right. Also today you would see abandoned hockey rinks everywhere"

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Old
12-04-2009, 05:53 PM
  #56
Mr Kanadensisk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jepjepjoo View Post
My reply from the main board regarding that data:

"Those Numbers have to be somewhat incorrect. Finland has only 27 outdoor rinks?!

Senior player numbers and their % of total players:

Canada 88,954 17,8%
Czech Republic 62,487 64,3%"

"There would have had to been over 200 000 more Czech players 20 years ago to explain the difference when comparing to Canada. That would make 3% of the Czech population hockey players which really doesn´t sound right. Also today you would see abandoned hockey rinks everywhere"
I tried finding past results of the IIHF Survey of Players, but for some reason it looks like the IIHF has erased all the old ones. It would be interesting to see if the Czech numbers have always looked like this.

As I mentioned before for obvious reasons the number of outdoor rinks is not a reliable category in this survey. However I expect that the number of indoor rinks is a very reliable number. By the looks of it, relative to the number of indoor rinks the Czech's senior numbers are quite over inflated. The number of Czech junior players looks about right relative to the number of indoor rinks.

Indoor rinks are expensive to build, so I expect the player / rink ratio will be higher in Russia and Czech R. than they are in Canada, US, Sweden, Finland.

I don't know why the Czech senior numbers are inflated, but as a whole the close correlation between the number of indoor rinks and players suggests that the survey is relatively accurate.


Last edited by Mr Kanadensisk: 12-04-2009 at 07:42 PM.
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Old
12-08-2009, 02:06 PM
  #57
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Off topic: I was looking over that Ahl allstar list and it has Cody Franson listed as a forward, has he been converted to forward?

Thanks

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