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New to Goaltending, need some basic advice before purchasing gear

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Old
12-08-2009, 04:37 AM
  #1
Ajlepisto
 
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New to Goaltending, need some basic advice before purchasing gear

Hey all!

I know there have been a lot of these posts, but I had some questions that I didn't find in other threads.

I'm 6 foot 2/3, and about 210 lbs. I'm working on my flexibility, but right now it's not too great for the butterfly. At least, I don't feel like it is. I can spread a bit, but I don't feel like I'm getting my legs out enough behind me to make it wide. This could be just because I'm doing it on the hardwood floor without any pads on.

I measured myself for leg pads, and I believe I came out with something around 35-36 inches. I wear a skate size of about 11, and I measured about 25 inches to my mid thigh from my angle bone. My problem is that I am in Sacramento, CA, and I don't know of any places that sell goal pads here to try on. I've have to drive over the Bay area.

My questions are:

1. Should I go a little smaller, or larger with the pads? I thought that since I am not wide in the butterfly, and not very flexible yet, I should get some that are a bit on the larger side to help plug the hole...or is that the wrong way?

2. How bad is this going to hurt? I played roller hockey goalie when I was little, but seriously, am I going to break my arm at the local rink? I don't want to be bruised constantly and sore after every game or stick time. That would make me dislike the position.

3. I've read places that mask/cage combos are bad, but are they really? I have been looking for clearance gear on GoalieMonkey.com and they have some of their mask/cage combos marked down to only 99 bucks. FOr someone on a budget that would be nice, as long as they are actually decent. They're Itech.

4. And finally, is buying a bad that is "Senior" that much worse than the pro spec pads? They're a lot cheaper in some cases, but I know they are typically made with worse materials, maybe some nylon or fabric and lack some of the features the other pro spec pads may have.

And then finally, if anyone here is in the Sacramento area and wouldn't mind being my stick time friend (IE, not blasting slappers at me my first day in net) that would be awesome. Especially a goalie, but I don't wanna get too picky

Thanks!

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12-08-2009, 08:07 AM
  #2
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1. You need to measure your ATK, or ankle to knee, to get the best idea of the pad size you need. Do some googling on how to get this measurement, and find a sizing chart to figure out what you need since I don't know offhand. The ATK will show you what size pad will fit properly in the sense that your knee will sit where your knee is supposed to sit. Then, say if its 36, you can get 36+2 if you really want a taller pad.

2. Generally it won't hurt at all. If you have any fear of getting hit when you're in the crease you shouldn't be a goalie. A slapper to the palm can hurt quite a bit, and sometimes the puck will find a chink in your armor but its rare. Getting hit in the head is probably the worst, ususally makes my ears ring and can apparently (I've never seen this personally) give you a concussion if you have a cheap mask.

3. Mask/cage combo? You mean like Osgood wears? If you get the old school Cooper ones off Ebay just like his, I've only heard good things about them. They are usually really cheap that way, as well. Otherwise, do NOT skimp out on your mask. Getting hit in weak pads just hurts, getting hit in a ****** mask can be dangerous.

4. Once you find your ATK check ebay every day looking for some pro pads that will fit you. Its not the end of the world to get cheaper, brand new senior pads, but finding second hand pro level stuff is pretty much always the better option.

Don't worry too much right now about how wide your butterfly is. When you have pads on you'll be on the knee stack, and your pads will be on ice. These two factors alone will help out a lot. Even then is far from the most important things a new goalie should concentrate on. In my opinion its more important to get your knees together than to have a wide bfly.

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12-08-2009, 09:06 AM
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I'm pretty close to your build- a bit under 6'1" and around 205 lbs and I wear 35+1 pads. Building on what Ragss said...

1. Yes- get your ATK measurement and go by that. If you go to http://www.goaliestore.com/board/index.php you can search the forums and there is a pretty good bit of information regarding pad size and ATKs. One thing that I can also reccommend is that assuming you'll be in a beer league, where they aren't quite sticklers for certain rules... look for some older 12" pads rather than NHL legal 11" pads. They will be cheaper (since they are technically illegal) and no beer league official will say anything about it. In the beer leagues where I play, there are probably only 1 or 2 goalies that have legal pads.

2. Generally, you won't get hurt at all. Sure, there is the occasional bruise or soreness from stingers but not really any more often than a position player. A lot of how much pain you experience depends on the quality of your equipment. If you are going to be facing more experienced players with harder shots, you'll want to get more protective gear- specifically your catch, C/A, and helmet.

3. Good combos are fine. Just make sure that if you go that route, you get a combo that is suitable for playing in goal. Don't just pick up a CCM player helmet and cage and assume that you'll be ok. If you choose to go with a newer style mask, don't be fooled by cheap "certified" masks... like the low level Itechs. They are just plastic shells with foam padding and really aren't suitable for anything but the lowest of the low level ice hockey. Like many other things in life, you get what you pay for in masks. Considerring the fact that you only have one head- it would be wise, imo, to spend a little more to get a decent mask. You probably don't need a top of the line Itech mask or anything, but there are several good options in the $300-$500 range.

4. If you plan on playing goalie for any extended period of time, you'll find that senior level equipment doesn't hold up as well as pro level stuff and you'll end up replacing it more quickly. Also, some of the bells and whistles that the pro level stuff has (better knee stacks, for example) really makes playing the position much more comfortable. Like Ragss said... used pro stuff (thats in decent shape, that is) is usually much better than new senior level stuff.

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12-08-2009, 12:41 PM
  #4
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Thanks for the replies,

I found my ATK measurement, but I felt like it had an inch or so to move in either direction, so I wasn't sure if that was an inch I'd feel. I'm halfway tempted to make the hour and a half drive to SF so I can try pads on. I'd hate to spend 500+ on pads and think that I could have some that fit better.

My mask combos I didn't mean the style like Osgood wears. I was referring to something like this: http://www.goaliemonkey.com/goalie-masks-clearance.html

I thought that since some had an "MSRP" of about $250 or more, maybe they were decent. Obviously I realize you get what you pay for, but I just didn't want to spend a TON more for a mask that has some sort of weird shape to help with sweat, but doesn't offer extra protection - not sure if that even exists, but you know what I mean...paying for things that don't matter unless you're at a really high level.

I will keep looking for pads online. I'm always a bit scared to buy from eBay, but I guess I should just get over it. Is there anything in particular to look for when buying used pro pads? I would assume the straps should be checked well, and maybe the toe area where your skate comes through? Anything I'm missing?

I plan on attending a Weekend Warriors or similar goalie camp to get some training and then signing up for a local C/Bronze level league once I get a little familiar with the position.

Thanks

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12-08-2009, 04:13 PM
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for a bulletin board that deals exclusively with goalie stuff, you can try looking at:
http://www.goaliestore.com/board/index.php

if you want to go with a true combo (like osgood, irbe, etc.) just look up combos at that site - one helmet recommended by many to use with a goalie cage is a jofa 390 (i currently use it as a goalie, and as a player).

if you want to go with a modern mask that's not true pricey, many recommened hackva; the site above will at least mention which ones many consider unfit ("widowmakers").

Personally, i play "pickup", "scrub" whatever you want to call it, and have played some senior NBC hockey in goal. Except for the sticks, jock, and helmet/cage, i bought everything used - some locally, some online. If you are not playing at a high level, some good used mid-level equipment is fine. If you are getting older pads (made before all the +1, +2, etc.), I would recommend getting some goalie knee pads to wear under them.

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12-08-2009, 05:05 PM
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Thanks,

I meant to ask about Hackva, I've heard they're a family business up in CA and they make great masks, although they're not certified.

Won't I run into issues with those masks in leagues around here?

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12-08-2009, 05:18 PM
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If you have a narrow butterfly, look for pads that have one, preferably two breaks in the outer roll. Goalies with a narrow butterfly typically have trouble closing the five-hole with pads that have a solid outer roll. For example, look at the Vaughn V3 and the RBK PIII. The V3 has two breaks in the outer roll, which lets the pad bend much easier at those spots. The RBKs don't, and it takes more force to bend it there.

Now look at Giguere in butterfly. He has a very narrow butterfly, which means his pads go almost straight back. This means that, to close his five-hole, the knee area will have to bend almost 90 degrees. However, in the RBK PII's he's wearing, there isn't a break in the outer roll. It's one solid piece of foam, which is difficult to bend to close his five-hole. This is known as the Giggy-fly, in which case he relies on stick positioning and the bulk of his knee pads to cover the five-hole instead.



Another thing to consider is to get pads with a thigh rise, which means your pad will extend longer at the top than others. Assuming they're the same make/model, a 34" pad and a 34 + 2" pad will both fit the same, EXCEPT that the 34 + 2" pad has more height above the knee. Two inches, to be precise. At the knee and below, it's exactly the same pad. This extra height lends a hand in closing the five hole... a 34 +2" pad will have a total of 4" extra between the five-hole over a stock 34" pad.

As far as head protection is concerned, I'd recommend a mask over a helmet/cage anyday. Masks are specifically designed to protect against shots, helmets are designed to protect against head impacts (like hitting your head against the ice). Unless you know exactly what helmet and cage to look for, it's a crapshoot. There are many inexpensive masks to be had out there, I recommend Hackva, Eddy, or Sportmask. Like has been said, low-level Itech masks are to be avoided like the plague.

I highly recommend you buy a dangler for your mask and/or invest in a gel neckguard made by Maltese or Battram. You never want to take a puck to an exposed throat. If you get a dangler, this post by spidergoalie shows the way I also tie it, to virtually eliminate any negatives that come with danglers (noise, obscured vision when looking down).

You do get bruises as a goalie, but typically they are far and few between. When you start out you'll inevitably get your share of bruises, but as your skills improve (in particular, awareness and staying square to the puck) they get less and less common. And -- at least in my experiences -- you're so pumped full of adrenaline in net, you barely feel the bruises anyways.

For a beginning goalie, you probably won't notice the difference between senior and pro gear... except for quality. Senior gear can last for years and years, or it can break down in six months. Used pro-level gear is a much wiser investment.


Last edited by densetsu: 12-08-2009 at 05:24 PM.
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12-08-2009, 05:32 PM
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I'm not disagreeing with you, but that picture is not of Giguere in butterfly. Yes he is down, but he is clearly just trying to clearly just trying to eat the puck with his chest. That is most definitely not his normal butterfly stance.

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12-08-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IniNew View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you, but that picture is not of Giguere in butterfly. Yes he is down, but he is clearly just trying to clearly just trying to eat the puck with his chest. That is most definitely not his normal butterfly stance.
although he did make a good point in that Giguere does not have a wide butterfly stance.

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12-08-2009, 07:01 PM
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Ragss
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Giguere will use a typical bfly if the situation calls for it, but if he sees the shot he'll do the giggy fly.



As opposed to Hiller, for example


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12-08-2009, 07:09 PM
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Thanks for the kind feedback. Much better than getting flamed to no end on other boards.

I made an account over at GoalieStore, and I have been reading their stuff for weeks now, but there seems to be a point where reading makes your brain mush and you just have to try and apply the stuff.

I'm still trying to stretch a lot, I realize it would change on the ice, warmed up and with pads, but you know how it goes, you have time to think and you become hyper-critical.

My goal is to make it to the top leagues at local rinks, I doubt logistically I could put that much effort to make it to a low level semi-pro league, but I am going to give it my best shot. I'm 22 years old, and played hockey when I was little growing up in Finland.

One other question about pads...I assume that whatever I buy, new or used, should have leather straps? It's difficult for me to be able to tell which pads are "pro" and which are "senior" because a lot of people talk about their pro pads costing 1200-1400 new...but I see some pads that say "Senior" that have an MSRP around 1100 or 1200 and are on sale for like 600-800. Being that many of the nicer used pads are about 500-650, I figured buying a new pair that are in that range wouldn't be bad, but maybe I'm just still aiming too low in price.

I assumed that leg pads down around the 400 and lower mark are the ones you want to keep away from, but the ones upwards of 800 are what I should be looking at. I know GoalieMonkey.com has been said to sell cheapo imports from Asia of some pads, mainly the lower end ones, and just has the logos of the big brands on them, but what price range would signify a pro level, or quality senior level pad? I'm trying to decide if I can really save buying used, if I want something I can grow with, because I'm not physically growing any further.

Sorry for all the questions. I read reviews but it's a bit hard to understand how they relate to me...and I'd rather not be one of those people who just puts links up to every potential deal they find and expect amazing quality and answers. lol.

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12-08-2009, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ajlepisto View Post
Thanks for the kind feedback. Much better than getting flamed to no end on other boards.
That's because we care about hockey and not being on a popularity contest internet board.

Of course sometimes a moron or two gets through a hole in the fence here or there and just likes to troll

They can be spotted when you see 5 threads that are 3 pages long and the same two or three people are in all of them for 90% of the thread.

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12-08-2009, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlepisto View Post
One other question about pads...I assume that whatever I buy, new or used, should have leather straps? It's difficult for me to be able to tell which pads are "pro" and which are "senior" because a lot of people talk about their pro pads costing 1200-1400 new...but I see some pads that say "Senior" that have an MSRP around 1100 or 1200 and are on sale for like 600-800. Being that many of the nicer used pads are about 500-650, I figured buying a new pair that are in that range wouldn't be bad, but maybe I'm just still aiming too low in price.

I assumed that leg pads down around the 400 and lower mark are the ones you want to keep away from, but the ones upwards of 800 are what I should be looking at. I know GoalieMonkey.com has been said to sell cheapo imports from Asia of some pads, mainly the lower end ones, and just has the logos of the big brands on them, but what price range would signify a pro level, or quality senior level pad? I'm trying to decide if I can really save buying used, if I want something I can grow with, because I'm not physically growing any further.

Sorry for all the questions. I read reviews but it's a bit hard to understand how they relate to me...and I'd rather not be one of those people who just puts links up to every potential deal they find and expect amazing quality and answers. lol.
Senior also helps designate the pads from a youth or intermediate pad. The senior can designate size or quality of pad. There's no need to go and get brand new, pro level pads. It would be a waste of money. If you are trying for the first time, spend the least amount possible. Go look for overstocked closeouts or used stuff. Don't skimp on the helmet or cup. Skates are the most important part of your gear, that is one thing you just cannot order online. If you have any other questions feel free to ask.

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12-08-2009, 07:49 PM
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Ah...so pretty much I should just research each set of pads individually to find out their quality.

These are what I was talking about, a pad marked as 1200 MSRP but on sale for around $500...

http://hockey.philbricks.net/browse....ve/4,7044.html

Or there are the pads like the RBK II 8k Seniors that are MSRP around 600 and on sale for like $450.

Trying to see which is better, being that the difference is only 50 bucks, but I may have to get weird colors, pad brands, etc to get the higher end models where I could be a little picky about colors and stuff on the cheaper stuff.

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12-08-2009, 09:13 PM
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Interesting pic. I didn't know he still did that...or that you even could strap a pad so you could do a full butterfly and an old school Roy-esque one like that.

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12-08-2009, 10:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajlepisto View Post
Or there are the pads like the RBK II 8k Seniors that are MSRP around 600 and on sale for like $450.
I can't speak for the 8k pads, but when you're choosing gloves I'd stay away from the 8k's. They were of terrible quality for me; within a few months, the nylon on the trapper ripping, fraying, and opening right up. The nylon on the blocker also wore out. Almost identical to what happened in this thread, though the strapping in the glove internals didn't rip for me.

In addition to the GSBB thread above, there's more complaints about the 8k gloves in this thread, including a post from me: http://www.goaliestore.com/board/equ...ml#post1482334. If it was just one person who reported problems, I'd write it off, but when there's so many people with the same problems it's a huge red flag.

Ironically, I found the RBK 5k pads to be of great quality, wore them for two years and not a fray, tear, or worn-out area (except one small spot on my calf guard). Ironic because the 5k's were the low-end senior series and the 8k's were the high-end senior series.

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12-08-2009, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Ajlepisto View Post
One other question about pads...I assume that whatever I buy, new or used, should have leather straps? It's difficult for me to be able to tell which pads are "pro" and which are "senior" because a lot of people talk about their pro pads costing 1200-1400 new...but I see some pads that say "Senior" that have an MSRP around 1100 or 1200 and are on sale for like 600-800. Being that many of the nicer used pads are about 500-650, I figured buying a new pair that are in that range wouldn't be bad, but maybe I'm just still aiming too low in price.
Many goalies prefer nylon straps to leather ones, including pros. There's not much difference in durability -- especially when metal buckles are used instead of plastic ones. Nylon straps let the goalie fine-tune the strap length to the millimeter and be able to quickly snap-snap-snap them all on. Whereas there's always a bit of compromise with length for leather straps (this hole or that one?) and they take a bit longer to do up.

There are many subtle differences to telling which pads are pro and which are senior. Checking the model number is the easiest way, like how the pro-level Vaughn V3's are 7500 and the senior level ones are 7400. Country of origin is also a good indicator, as it's rare to find a pro pad not made in Canada or the US (Sherwood being the exception to that rule).

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12-08-2009, 11:56 PM
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So you'd say perhaps look for some pads with multiple rolls in them, nylon straps, but with metal buckles?

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12-09-2009, 01:17 AM
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Nylon strapping usually has plastic clips rather than metal buckles. By multiple rolls, he's talking outer rolls, located on the outside of the leg. Most pads do not have inner leg rolls anymore, as the flatfaced pad has taken over.

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12-09-2009, 07:01 PM
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Okay. I don't know if I have seen any pads besides the newest Koho's that have rolls in them anymore...

And most of the other pads I see have only the one roll on the side of the pad, not sure I've ever seen one with 2 or more. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, did you mean find a pad with one or more rolls, instead of a completely flat faced pad?

And I was always under the impression that plastic clips = bad on goalie pads, but maybe that's not the case.

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12-09-2009, 07:03 PM
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The outer roll has breaks in it. Some are a solid roll that go from the thigh to the ankle in one roll. Look at the outer roll on these bauer's, they have multiple breaks in the outer roll.


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12-09-2009, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by densetsu View Post
I can't speak for the 8k pads, but when you're choosing gloves I'd stay away from the 8k's. They were of terrible quality for me; within a few months, the nylon on the trapper ripping, fraying, and opening right up. The nylon on the blocker also wore out. Almost identical to what happened in this thread, though the strapping in the glove internals didn't rip for me.

In addition to the GSBB thread above, there's more complaints about the 8k gloves in this thread, including a post from me: http://www.goaliestore.com/board/equ...ml#post1482334. If it was just one person who reported problems, I'd write it off, but when there's so many people with the same problems it's a huge red flag.

Ironically, I found the RBK 5k pads to be of great quality, wore them for two years and not a fray, tear, or worn-out area (except one small spot on my calf guard). Ironic because the 5k's were the low-end senior series and the 8k's were the high-end senior series.
Okay, thanks for that heads up. I saw some deals on other pads, like the 6k and such. Have you had other RBK products before? You mentioned you liked the 5k, in your opinion is the poor quality of the 8k more of a random thing, or would you say RBK is making poor equipment mostly?

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12-09-2009, 07:05 PM
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The outer roll has breaks in it. Some are a solid roll that go from the thigh to the ankle in one roll. Look at the outer roll on these bauer's, they have multiple breaks in the outer roll.

Ohhh, got it! Sorry, I was thinking parallel rolls, not consecutive ones!

That clears up a lot, and that makes sense too, with it being more flexible.

Would people say one break is enough, or should someone try to find one with more than 1 break in the side roll?

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12-09-2009, 07:27 PM
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Probably easier to learn with the more flexible styles like Vaughns. But if you get pads even with no breaks I'm sure you'd adapt, it just might increase the learning curve.

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12-09-2009, 09:55 PM
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My ATK is about 18.5-19.5, depending on where you consider the middle of my knee. I have long legs, and a kinda long knee bone, so there is some room for movement. I also heard pads tend to shrink, so perhaps being 1 inch or .5 inch too long would be good?

What does everyone think about these?

http://www.goaliemonkey.com/rbk-glpremierprosr-.html



Last edited by Ajlepisto: 12-09-2009 at 10:01 PM.
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