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Old
12-08-2009, 10:58 PM
  #76
kernkraft
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Wouldn't surprise me if they had a few available prospects.

Phoenix is one of the worst NHL teams at drafting and developing, right after Minnesota IMO. For instance, they didn't draft a single player in 2003 (deepest draft ever) which has played a game in the NHL.

Hell, I'd also inquire about Turris.

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12-08-2009, 11:14 PM
  #77
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Gomez has to go if we ever plan on being successful. Maybe not in this deal but somehow we have to move him.

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12-08-2009, 11:23 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by kernkraft View Post
Wouldn't surprise me if they had a few available prospects.

Phoenix is one of the worst NHL teams at drafting and developing, right after Minnesota IMO. For instance, they didn't draft a single player in 2003 (deepest draft ever) which has played a game in the NHL.

Hell, I'd also inquire about Turris.
Wow, what awful evidence. Phoenix didn't draft a single player in 2003? Consider the fact that their top pick was a mid-3rd rounder! Maybe that played into things.

Since 2003, however, their draft record is solid.

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12-09-2009, 01:18 AM
  #79
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I think that's a good and realistic offer.

After all, if I was building a young team that intends to contend in 3-4 years, I'd plan on dealing a potential core young player for a recently available UFA (who I didn't bid on) who will retire in 3-4 years.

Adding in D'Agostini seals the deal since I'd be the winner short-term with Spacek and long-term potentially as D'Agostini could pot 15-20 goals. If he can't score that much, then at least he'd do so for the next 3-4 season on my farm club.
you don't think Spacek has a little more value than that? Mueller was an 8th overall pick in 06, but outside of his rookie year he has not been very good... he's no longer waiver exempt so you'd have to keep him in the lineup.

I'm not a fan of having Spacek for 2 more years @ almost 4M$, but despite his early struggles he's started to pick up his play and is proving to be useful, if a little overpaid.

I'd think he should be enough straight up... so i wonder why you'd think we would have to "sweeten the pot" with D'ago...

is it because you value Mueller that much, or because you are even more unimpressed with Spacek (and his contract) than I am?

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12-09-2009, 02:03 AM
  #80
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you don't think Spacek has a little more value than that? Mueller was an 8th overall pick in 06, but outside of his rookie year he has not been very good... he's no longer waiver exempt so you'd have to keep him in the lineup.

I'm not a fan of having Spacek for 2 more years @ almost 4M$, but despite his early struggles he's started to pick up his play and is proving to be useful, if a little overpaid.

I'd think he should be enough straight up... so i wonder why you'd think we would have to "sweeten the pot" with D'ago...

is it because you value Mueller that much, or because you are even more unimpressed with Spacek (and his contract) than I am?
I don't think it matters what Spacek is worth. The Coyotes are a young team not intending to compete this season. To deal a young, still-promising player is highly unlikely. If they are fed up with his progress and want to give up on him, then they would do so in exchange for another former highly-touted youngster who has struggled. Think of the Latendresse/Pouliot deal. Dealing him for a player that doesn't help the team for its potential window of success (2-3 years from now--the time that Spacek nears retirement & his contract becomes a burden) is tantamount to crippling the franchise with misdirection.

Beyond that, I don't believe Spacek holds all that much value. Players like him are available almost every offseason. Phoenix didn't bid on his services. Montreal acquired Gomez's large contract and we know that Gainey had been interested in Gomez when he was a UFA. So it makes sense. In Phoenix's case, it doesn't.

Even more crucial and compelling is Phoenix's financial situation. They are in no position to absorb Spacek's contract while dumping a relatively cheap contract from Mueller.

I would also like to mention that Montreal fans are still hopeful that Andrei Kostitsyn will pan out. And that, as of last year, Carey Price was beginning to enter suspect territory after a strong rookie campaign. Mueller was drafted a year later than Price.

I'm not at all unimpressed with Spacek, by the way. I think he's a fine enough player. And I wasn't entirely serious about the D'Agostini bit: I've been underwhelmed by D'Agostini and feel he has little value.

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12-09-2009, 07:18 AM
  #81
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Wow, what awful evidence. Phoenix didn't draft a single player in 2003? Consider the fact that their top pick was a mid-3rd rounder! Maybe that played into things.

Since 2003, however, their draft record is solid.
I'd say that's not an excuse, but alright then:

Between 1996 and 2003, they produced 3 players who are still in the NHL (Habs have 13). Not a good track record.

They had good years in 2004 and 2005 with 6 NHL players out of 15 picks (Habs have 8 out of 16).

Since then, none of their draft picks have played in the NHL except for their first overall picks (all in the top 8), who are all in the AHL right now (and none close to a 1 PPG ratio)...

Except for Mueller who's been getting worse every season since his rookie year and the rumors are that he's being shopped. Now, between 2005 and today, you can't judge as almost none of the Habs picks have played either. But you can't deny that they don't have a good history.


Last edited by kernkraft: 12-09-2009 at 07:25 AM.
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Old
12-09-2009, 08:19 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by kernkraft View Post
I'd say that's not an excuse, but alright then:

Between 1996 and 2003, they produced 3 players who are still in the NHL (Habs have 13). Not a good track record.

They had good years in 2004 and 2005 with 6 NHL players out of 15 picks (Habs have 8 out of 16).

Since then, none of their draft picks have played in the NHL except for their first overall picks (all in the top 8), who are all in the AHL right now (and none close to a 1 PPG ratio)...

Except for Mueller who's been getting worse every season since his rookie year and the rumors are that he's being shopped. Now, between 2005 and today, you can't judge as almost none of the Habs picks have played either. But you can't deny that they don't have a good history.
Wow. Your reaching is only getting worse.

First of all, not an excuse? In 2003, only 5 players drafted in the 3rd round have made the NHL full-time. Of those 5, two are goons (Carcillo & Stortini). In the 4th round, 2 players have made the NHL full-time. In the 5th round, 2 more players. 6th round, 1 player. 7th round, 2. 8th and 9th rounds, 3 players.

We're talking 15 players--2 of which were selected before Phoenix had a pick in the 3rd round. So 13 players. You're lambasting the Coyotes because they failed to draft 1 of the 13 players. That's insanity. Plenty of teams failed. And the ones that did succeed, well, let's say a good chunk of those picks weren't more than depth players. And arguably the best picks (Enstrom & Byfuglien) were drafted in the 8th round--so a whole slew of teams missed out on them.

The fact that you then have to reach to 1996-2003 to pull out their abilities to develop players is beyond a reach. Who was the GM in Montreal for much of that period? Houle. How relevant is Houle to today's team in terms of today's management's capabilities in scouting & development? None whatsoever.

The Coyotes have different management teams and different scouts. They've changed management teams several times over since that era. So that argument bears no relevance whatsoever.

You're also reaching by setting the parameters of having to judge 2006-2009 drafts. What kind of thinking is that? 2005 wasn't a terribly strong draft class and Phoenix drafted what appears to be two core players in Hanzal and Yandle.

In 2004, they drafted 4 players that look to have NHL careers.

In 2006, they drafted Mueller, Summers (not overly keen on him), and Ahnelov (excellent).

To me, there's no indication that the Coyotes' current management team has a poor track record. I think that once they rid themselves of any remnants from the Gretzky era--which included Keith Gretzky being named head of amateur scouting (a move that never made sense, since Keith's region--Eastern Canada--was never one that Phoenix drafted from much)--the management team will be strong. I like their GM and some of the staff he's brought in, so I don't think any of their history ought to be considered when there's a clean slate.

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12-09-2009, 08:33 AM
  #83
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Holy crap dude. Chill out. I don't think you read my post at all.

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12-09-2009, 08:38 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Habs0492 View Post
Gomez has to go if we ever plan on being successful. Maybe not in this deal but somehow we have to move him.
LMAO real hard.
Only Habs fans will trash a new player after 31 games.

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12-09-2009, 08:42 AM
  #85
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Holy crap dude. Chill out. I don't think you read my post at all.
I'm perfectly calm. I read your post. You cited information from 1996-2003. None of your arguments have any relevance to today.

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12-09-2009, 09:24 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by AloneInTokyo View Post
"Up front, Maloney wouldn't mind adding another top-six goal-scorer and it has been widely reported that young center Peter Mueller could be made available."
On what planet is Scott Gomez a goal-scorer?

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12-09-2009, 09:27 AM
  #87
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On what planet is Scott Gomez a goal-scorer?
he scored a goal yesterday ... empty net

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12-09-2009, 09:36 AM
  #88
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On what planet is Scott Gomez a goal-scorer?
You're missing the point. Assumptions, speculation without reading the article or comprehending it clearly.

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12-09-2009, 09:36 AM
  #89
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http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/phx091207.html

According to Hendrickshockey (whom I love to read rumors from)

They use the Fourthperiod to back up the Mueller available rumor.

Saying he could go for as cheap as a top 6 D, because Phoenix has had enough with him.

Worth a top 6 in my books anyday!

I say go for Mueller bob!
No thanks He's a dissapointement since the beginning, he's the true exemple of what a poor draft system the Yotes have

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12-09-2009, 09:37 AM
  #90
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LMAO real hard.
Only Habs fans will trash a new player after 31 games.
Ya right ! I think we have to wait the 82 games, and make a decision, because when he's good, Gomez can be a top center. Jus wait and see

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12-11-2009, 04:31 PM
  #91
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So Glen Sather offered defenseman Bobby Sanguinetti to the Coyotes in exchange for center Peter Mueller. But Don Maloney countered with a request for either Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan.

Do we have a Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan comparable we are willing to trade?


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz0ZQE8T7jL

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12-11-2009, 06:43 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by viasyncro View Post
So Glen Sather offered defenseman Bobby Sanguinetti to the Coyotes in exchange for center Peter Mueller. But Don Maloney countered with a request for either Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan.

Do we have a Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan comparable we are willing to trade?


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz0ZQE8T7jL
you would think Plekanec would be the target in that case... hope to hell we wouldn't consider that unless Gainey decides he has to move pleks, and in that case it would have to be Mueller + coming back the other way...

although I wonder if the yotes would be interested in Metro at all, though if they are still in the playoff picture in the West come february, and he's still playing at the level he's been playing at, he might be exactly the kind of player they'd target (cheap, veteran, productive, no long-term obligation and likely an easy guy to re-sign for next year...)
we'd have to add something I think, but if we could get Mueller for Metro + a late pick or weak prospect I'd be pretty darn interested...

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12-12-2009, 04:53 AM
  #93
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Giving Plekanec now for Mueller is just madness.

Coyotes already have that veteran centerman in Lang, I really doubt Phoenix would be interested in another.

It would have to be young wingers with top six upside (Kost jr, D'Agostini) and/or picks type of deal.
Or maybe some sort fot three-way deal with Halak included?


Last edited by Marksman: 12-12-2009 at 06:30 AM.
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Old
12-12-2009, 12:59 PM
  #94
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No thanks He's a dissapointement since the beginning, he's the true exemple of what a poor draft system the Yotes have
Yes definitely was a disappointment in first year when he scored 22 goals 32 assists. As a 19 year old.

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12-12-2009, 01:00 PM
  #95
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you would think Plekanec would be the target in that case...
And we answer "Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha" and hangup.

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Old
12-12-2009, 01:16 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
you would think Plekanec would be the target in that case... hope to hell we wouldn't consider that unless Gainey decides he has to move pleks, and in that case it would have to be Mueller + coming back the other way...

although I wonder if the yotes would be interested in Metro at all, though if they are still in the playoff picture in the West come february, and he's still playing at the level he's been playing at, he might be exactly the kind of player they'd target (cheap, veteran, productive, no long-term obligation and likely an easy guy to re-sign for next year...)
we'd have to add something I think, but if we could get Mueller for Metro + a late pick or weak prospect I'd be pretty darn interested...
lol wow, no the yotes would not be interested in metro and a late pick or weak prospect for Mueller...

What some people don't understand is that it is like giving up Patches, but more. Mueller has accomplished a lot more and is 1 year older... not a big deal, and he's already had a 20 goal season.

Imagine trading Patches for Metropolit and a late pick or weak prospect... really?? THink about what you would want for patches, and that is AT LEAST what the Yotes want for Mueller.

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12-12-2009, 06:29 PM
  #97
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lol wow, no the yotes would not be interested in metro and a late pick or weak prospect for Mueller...

What some people don't understand is that it is like giving up Patches, but more. Mueller has accomplished a lot more and is 1 year older... not a big deal, and he's already had a 20 goal season.

Imagine trading Patches for Metropolit and a late pick or weak prospect... really?? THink about what you would want for patches, and that is AT LEAST what the Yotes want for Mueller.
yeah you're probably right, but that's about all we have (in the NHL level centre mold) that i'd be willing to send their way for Mueller...

plekanec no way... no way that they'd take on Gomez's contract. Lapierre doesn't really fit what they are looking for, so that leaves Metro.

Maloney would probably have no interest, but...

- if they are in the playoff hunt near the deadline and could clearly use a veteran centre who can contribute offensively

AND

- they can't add any significant salary (be it on short or long term contract)

AND

- they have internally decided that Mueller is not going to be part of their plans going forward

i could see them having interest in Metro.
that's a pretty specific and unlikely combined scenario, but i think it's plausible.

Making the playoffs, or the chance of it, would be HUGE for that franchise and the new ownership group who is apparently committed to keeping the team there. Getting into the playoffs now, if possible, is likely going to be a prime mandate for Maloney... but doing it as cheaply as possible.

how many other centre's around the league could fit that mold and be available?

but you are right, it's not likely to be enough for Mueller...

**going back a few years, think of the Ribs deal... really not all that different value wise... a young talented offensively gifted centre with some holes in his game and not a favorite of management... traded for a guy who was even less useful/valuable then Metro (niniimaa was and had been barely a 7th dman when we got him, plus he was making 2.5 million)... GM's do some crazy things when need and circumstance create the "perfect storm" for a bonehead trade... as pie in the sky as it might be, it's about time that we benefit from one of those!

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Old
12-14-2009, 05:39 PM
  #98
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So Glen Sather offered defenseman Bobby Sanguinetti to the Coyotes in exchange for center Peter Mueller. But Don Maloney countered with a request for either Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan.

Do we have a Brandon Dubinsky or Ryan Callahan comparable we are willing to trade?


Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/range...#ixzz0ZQE8T7jL
http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/phx091213.html

Coyotes still shopping Mueller
TheFourthPeriod.com

The Phoenix Coyotes are still in the market for a veteran defenseman and a top-six forward and are still using young forward Peter Mueller as trade bait.
According to the Ottawa Sun, the Toronto Maple Leafs are still interested in Mueller, however Leafs GM Brian Burke has not yet been able to present a package the Coyotes are interested in.

Coyotes GM Don Maloney told TFP last month that he is actively searching for a defenseman, and has considered adding unrestricted free agent Chris Chelios to the roster.

It's uncertain if the Leafs and Coyotes will continue their trade talks into the New Year.


If it's a defenceman they're looking for then we have a few propects that I think could step in to replace a traded vet. If they'd take Mara/Gorges and a prospect then I'd be okay with that, even though I love Gorges. Gotta give to get.

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12-14-2009, 05:41 PM
  #99
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Lapierre for Mueller straight up.

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12-14-2009, 05:43 PM
  #100
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Lapierre for Mueller straight up.
That would be so awesome.

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