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Our beloved J.R on the Flyers

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Old
12-09-2009, 02:46 AM
  #1
decadentia
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Our beloved J.R on the Flyers

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=301603

Quote:
Talk soon turned to the Philadelphia Flyers, a team Roenick played with for three seasons.

"What's going on with this team? They're my Flyers. I'm passionate about my Flyers, and I loved watching them for the last three months while I've been retired," said Roenick. "They were killing teams in the beginning, and now they're getting killed. What's going on?"

Roenick said he couldn't pinpoint the problem, but he offered a couple of opinions on the Flyers' problems.

"There's somebody bad in that locker room. Somebody is tainting something in that locker room, whether it's the leadership, or somebody who is leading them the wrong way, or somebody who is doing something and other people are following off the ice. They need to straighten that stuff up inside the locker room," said Roenick.
The former Flyer was asked about the team's decision to replace head coach John Stevens with Peter Laviolette.

"I think it's a bad thing to blame the coach," said Roenick. "I think Peter Laviolette is a great coach, I think John Stevens did a great job. But now, it's in the locker room somewhere. They had better straighten that out, because they can still turn their season around. Something is up, because a team doesn't just flip like that with the players that they have on that team without something going wrong internally."


Interesting read amongst all of our speculation lately. Unsure if he's trying to inadvertantly point the finger at someone there, I doubt it though, J.R usually says anything he has on his mind (clearly). Can't say I completely agree with him about Stevens not taking blame Though even as big of a Stevens naysayer as myself, obviously I would have to admit the team would be just as responsible.

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12-09-2009, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decadentia View Post
http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=301603

Interesting read amongst all of our speculation lately. Unsure if he's trying to inadvertantly point the finger at someone there, I doubt it though, J.R usually says anything he has on his mind (clearly). Can't say I completely agree with him about Stevens not taking blame Though even as big of a Stevens naysayer as myself, obviously I would have to admit the team would be just as responsible.
Can he be an assistant coach now? Or special advisor for locker room chemistry at least?

Love that calls them his Flyers even though he spent more of his career in Chicago and even Phoenix. We love you J.R.

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12-09-2009, 03:05 AM
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The team won 6-2 after Emery went on IR. Coincidence?

After all, cocaine's one hell of a drug

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12-09-2009, 03:07 AM
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J.R is in easily one of my top 5 favorite Flyers ever (I'm young), the guy came in here saying he wanted to win a cup and then did everything in his power to do it. him and primeau almost did it by sheer will alone. would love to see one of them brought into a position where they could influence the current team

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12-09-2009, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
"There's somebody bad in that locker room. Somebody is tainting something in that locker room, whether it's the leadership, or somebody who is leading them the wrong way, or somebody who is doing something and other people are following off the ice. They need to straighten that stuff up inside the locker room," said Roenick.
Cool story, Jeremy.

Perhaps you should fashion a voodoo charm to exorcise the taint from the locker room.

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12-09-2009, 03:20 AM
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decadentia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
Cool story, Jeremy.

Perhaps you should fashion a voodoo charm to exorcise the taint from the locker room.
Even with interviews from the team, it's pretty apparent something is amiss in the locker room.

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12-09-2009, 03:31 AM
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There were reports of cliques and the like in Philadelphia.

That isn't a secret.

JR says not to blame Stevens, but in the end, the locker room is his responsibility. How the players interact with each other is sometimes unavoidable, but honestly, with a career of his own to worry about through the majority of the Stevens era, how much has he really witnessed?

I am one of JR's biggest fans. I love his personality. I love how he played for us.

This time though, I really think our locker room and our play were a direct effect of the type of coaching we had in place.

JR says that the coach shouldn't be to blame in Philadelphia, but I think this situation was one of the most obvious situations where a coaching change was necessary out of the many changes we've seen in recent memory.

I still hope Stevens rejoins the organization in some way, shape, or form. He is a good guy who really does want the players to succeed. You can tell he cares about the players and how they develop, both on the ice and in life. That's something important to keep within the organization even if his leadership role should be questioned.

Some people like to assume a captain is the leader and should have control of the locker room at all times. A captain though is the second in command under the coach in all respects. In that regard, a captain is only as good as his coach.

I'm not saying Richards or the leadership among players should not take any blame for any locker room issues, but without a coach that's going to be a coach there's no use for a captain.

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12-09-2009, 03:32 AM
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He's got taint on the mind.

He doesn't know what he is talking about. How could he? He knows Gagne. That's it.

I love the guy but we all know he suffers from diarrhea of the mouth sometimes.

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12-09-2009, 04:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
JR says not to blame Stevens, but in the end, the locker room is his responsibility. How the players interact with each other is sometimes unavoidable, but honestly, with a career of his own to worry about through the majority of the Stevens era, how much has he really witnessed?
It has to be daunting to a coach in his first NHL gig when the jobs of Mike Richards and Kimmo Timonen are a billion times more secure than your own.

I'm sure Stevens was tragically aware that the balance of power tilted towards his core: a group of smirky fratboys more concerned with Call of Duty and banging like screen doors than hockey. But, in the locker room, what leverage does he have to crack down?

I'm not saying Stevens was the greatest coach. But, it's hard to rein in a group of players that know with certainty that they will live to piss on your grave. It's a no-win proposition for ol' John.

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12-09-2009, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarfo View Post
It has to be daunting to a coach in his first NHL gig when the jobs of Mike Richards and Kimmo Timonen are a billion times more secure than your own.

I'm sure Stevens was tragically aware that the balance of power tilted towards his core: a group of smirky fratboys more concerned with Call of Duty and banging like screen doors than hockey. But, in the locker room, what leverage does he have to crack down?

I'm not saying Stevens was the greatest coach. But, it's hard to rein in a group of players that know with certainty that they will live to piss on your grave. It's a no-win proposition for ol' John.
I agree to an extent. John didn't exactly have much control over the locker room. I think he tried to assert himself as someone to look up to, but he tried to do it by becoming a "member of the team," so to speak.

In reality, I assume the team really did like Stevens for the most part. That doesn't necessarily mean he was the best man for the position.

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12-09-2009, 05:51 AM
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Fact is if i guy comes in without the "im one of you guys" attitude you will see that the locker room stuff will soon go away. When you realise that your actually playing for a place on the team, thats when you start to play your own game and keep your head down.

Now i'm not saying that richards, carter, timmo and the like were playing badly on purpose, but knowing their job security is only a bad thing. When you have to play lights out to earn a job, you damn well do it. Thats why we are seeing the bottom 6 really starting to play this year. They know there is allot of talent in the farm that is close to the level they are, so they are shifting their ***** to do it.

Lavy will have that locker room under his control right now. I bet he has already started weeding out the **** they get away with by punishing them with long training sessions on the ice. If lavy is hated by the players it's sometimes a good thing, because at least all the players agree on one thing. The coach isn't meant to be your friend. He's meant to teach you how to win. Something stevens didn't fully grasp

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12-09-2009, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by might2mash View Post
Can he be an assistant coach now? Or special advisor for locker room chemistry at least?

Love that calls them his Flyers even though he spent more of his career in Chicago and even Phoenix. We love you J.R.
I think the most telling thing about JR is that he never wanted to leave Philly in the first place. When we signed Forsberg, ownership asked him if he would be willing to be moved and he said he understood and accepted the trade to LA.

He obviously loved the organization and the fans. Gotta love a guy who gives 110% and loved being here.

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12-09-2009, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
Fact is if i guy comes in without the "im one of you guys" attitude you will see that the locker room stuff will soon go away. When you realise that your actually playing for a place on the team, thats when you start to play your own game and keep your head down.

Now i'm not saying that richards, carter, timmo and the like were playing badly on purpose, but knowing their job security is only a bad thing. When you have to play lights out to earn a job, you damn well do it. Thats why we are seeing the bottom 6 really starting to play this year. They know there is allot of talent in the farm that is close to the level they are, so they are shifting their ***** to do it.

Lavy will have that locker room under his control right now. I bet he has already started weeding out the **** they get away with by punishing them with long training sessions on the ice. If lavy is hated by the players it's sometimes a good thing, because at least all the players agree on one thing. The coach isn't meant to be your friend. He's meant to teach you how to win. Something stevens didn't fully grasp
This. Mike Keenan? He was pretty successful.

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12-09-2009, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
JR says not to blame Stevens, but in the end, the locker room is his responsibility. How the players interact with each other is sometimes unavoidable, but honestly, with a career of his own to worry about through the majority of the Stevens era, how much has he really witnessed?
I don't know that I agree with that. The coach is by definition going to stand apart. Ensuring solid chemistry and minimizing the formation of cliques... that's on the C, As and the leadership group among the players, maintaining a vigil to stop that kind of dynamic from developing, and taking measures to eliminate them when they arise. The coach is the last person who has influence there.

Even a players' coach is never one of the boys. The coach always represents authority, and the social dynamic is out of his hands.

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12-09-2009, 08:22 AM
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Love JR, but it doesn't appear that he knows what he is talking about

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12-09-2009, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by The Inebriator View Post
Love JR, but it doesn't appear that he knows what he is talking about
Seriously? I think it's blatantly obvious that there are SERIOUS problems in the locker room, and I suspect the divide is between Pronger and the young guys.

Can anyone else see that? Or is it just me and JR?

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12-09-2009, 08:23 AM
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I'm just curious, does anyone have any idea what cliques there are exactly? I remember last season there was the "Sky Line" with Lupul, Upshall, Hartnell and Carter if I remember correctly.

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12-09-2009, 08:26 AM
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I'm just curious, does anyone have any idea what cliques there are exactly? I remember last season there was the "Sky Line" with Lupul, Upshall, Hartnell and Carter if I remember correctly.
I'd add Richards to that mix. Richards used to stay at Lupul's place so they could get wasted downtown.

At least Hartnell is married, you dont see him out with Carter and Richie getting drunk.

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12-09-2009, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
Seriously? I think it's blatantly obvious that there are SERIOUS problems in the locker room, and I suspect the divide is between Pronger and the young guys.

Can anyone else see that? Or is it just me and JR?
How in the world could that be blatantly obvious to anyone not in the Flyers organization? The only thing we have heard of it is one vague report that simply said there were rumors of division in the locker room. That's not surprising considering these questions arise any time a team struggles. There were no details reported on this matter and one would think that if there really was a trail worth following here someone would be reporting on it

Not to mention somehow the captaincy switch gaffe that came out of some source around the Flyers, I don't really believe much of anything swirling around the team unless its from the horse's mouth

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12-09-2009, 08:36 AM
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How in the world could that be blatantly obvious to anyone not in the Flyers organization? The only thing we have heard of it is one vague report that simply said there were rumors of division in the locker room. That's not surprising considering these questions arise any time a team struggles. There were no details reported on this matter and one would think that if there really was a trail worth following here someone would be reporting on it

Not to mention somehow the captaincy switch gaffe that came out of some source around the Flyers, I don't really believe much of anything swirling around the team unless its from the horse's mouth
All the "insiders" who would really know about locker room problems are probably being told to keep things hush-hush. Guys like Timmy P have nothing to gain by coming out and pinpointing a specific player who is causing trouble. The organization would be none to happy if he did that, caused rumors and decreased a players trade value.

When I watch the post game interviews, especially Pronger's and Richards', I get the distinct feeling that they are not on the same page.

I can't see a guy like Pronger taking so many losses in a row too well either. Pronger wants nothing to do with the "sky line" or Richards and Carter showing up hungover to pre-game.

If you watch the interviews and stuff, it's almost like the players are trying to say things are not right, but are obviously walking the line about what they can say.

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12-09-2009, 08:38 AM
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It has to be daunting to a coach in his first NHL gig when the jobs of Mike Richards and Kimmo Timonen are a billion times more secure than your own.

I'm sure Stevens was tragically aware that the balance of power tilted towards his core: a group of smirky fratboys more concerned with Call of Duty and banging like screen doors than hockey. But, in the locker room, what leverage does he have to crack down?

I'm not saying Stevens was the greatest coach. But, it's hard to rein in a group of players that know with certainty that they will live to piss on your grave. It's a no-win proposition for ol' John.
Honestly, if you can't get over that dynamic and have success within it, you might as well get out of the coaching racket, because you're not going to find a team in the league where what you just noted isn't true:

1) Players always will "live to piss on your grave," and that will only grow as more teams commit to "franchise players" contractually.

2) It's a young man's game, and young guys are going to be interested in chasing tail and playing video games.

3) Coaching is hard...it's managing 20-30 personalities (including call ups and the like) of various ages, skill levels, salaries, etc.

You have to exert control and leadership over that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I agree to an extent. John didn't exactly have much control over the locker room. I think he tried to assert himself as someone to look up to, but he tried to do it by becoming a "member of the team," so to speak.

In reality, I assume the team really did like Stevens for the most part. That doesn't necessarily mean he was the best man for the position.
As I noted in the past, Stevens had a bully mentality when it came to running this team. He held the "weaker" players over the coals, but never went after the "stronger" players for their crap. This was exacerbated by what seemed to simply be the guys he happened to like and those he didn't like (there was a marked bias in favor of former Phantoms he knew well, especially when he first got the gig). People keep throwing around the word "accountability"--even the media defending Stevens--and not considering the fact that Stevens effin sucked at instituting it. He'd watch Briere/Hartnell go out and take stupid minors on a regular basis, and then throw Upshall under the bus.

Accountability...

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12-09-2009, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
All the "insiders" who would really know about locker room problems are probably being told to keep things hush-hush. Guys like Timmy P have nothing to gain by coming out and pinpointing a specific player who is causing trouble. The organization would be none to happy if he did that, caused rumors and decreased a players trade value.

When I watch the post game interviews, especially Pronger's and Richards', I get the distinct feeling that they are not on the same page.

I can't see a guy like Pronger taking so many losses in a row too well either. Pronger wants nothing to do with the "sky line" or Richards and Carter showing up hungover to pre-game.

If you watch the interviews and stuff, it's almost like the players are trying to say things are not right, but are obviously walking the line about what they can say.
Ok... so its "blatantly obvious" because of no real factual evidence, and rather a feeling you get watching a hockey player talk to the media? That doesn't seem so blatant at all

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12-09-2009, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
I'd add Richards to that mix. Richards used to stay at Lupul's place so they could get wasted downtown.

At least Hartnell is married, you dont see him out with Carter and Richie getting drunk.
Being married has nothing to do with it. My brother saw him in Drinkers with Carter and Emery about a month or so ago throwing them back. Also not the first time he was spotted getting wrecked. Trust me. Married or not, Hartnell still parties with the young'ens.

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12-09-2009, 08:51 AM
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Ok... so its "blatantly obvious" because of no real factual evidence, and rather a feeling you get watching a hockey player talk to the media? That doesn't seem so blatant at all
No real factual evidence? Do you expect the Flyers to release a statement saying that Richards and Carter are party animals and Pronger is getting hell for whipping these boys into shape?

It's obvious they are holding back during these interviews. It's obvious to me something is up based on what questions Pronger completely bypasses.

If you disagree with me, whatever. Just watch the interviews and tell me you don't think something is up in the locker room.

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Being married has nothing to do with it. My brother saw him in Drinkers with Carter and Emery about a month or so ago throwing them back. Also not the first time he was spotted getting wrecked. Trust me. Married or not, Hartnell still parties with the young'ens.
Well, I'd at least hope Hartnell isn't chasing Temple tail at those bars like Carts and Richie do. Or that Hartnell's wife doesnt let him go out quite as much.

Every man has the right to a few beers though, Hartnell included

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12-09-2009, 08:59 AM
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Being married has nothing to do with it. My brother saw him in Drinkers with Carter and Emery about a month or so ago throwing them back. Also not the first time he was spotted getting wrecked. Trust me. Married or not, Hartnell still parties with the young'ens.
I'm not sure walking downstairs to Drinkers puts Hartnell in the same grouping as the others as far as the complaints go. I've yet to see Hartnell in any of the supposedly incriminating, "inflammatory" pics that have circulated the net. I would be more shocked if Hartnell wasn't down there every once in a while...

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