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Dave Babych Hired - And Now Glen Hanlon - UPD #84

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Old
12-09-2009, 11:44 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by orcatown View Post
Just one more example of the team keeping the alumni happy at the expense of the fans. We have seen over and over again ex-Canuck hired for key positions and, no matter how they screw-up, they stay hired. Delorme and Smyl are glaring examples.
Your post doesn't make sense, you haven't said one word as to why Babych personally wouldn't be good in this role, rather you've used the failures of two other people to say that Babych will likely fail.

The only slight reason you give is that there are other more experienced people available for the job of assistant to the traveling secretary, but don't name them.

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12-09-2009, 11:54 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LostMyGlasses View Post
Your post doesn't make sense, you haven't said one word as to why Babych personally wouldn't be good in this role, rather you've used the failures of two other people to say that Babych will likely fail.

The only slight reason you give is that there are other more experienced people available for the job of assistant to the traveling secretary, but don't name them.
And let's not forget that only 7 of Babych's 22 years in the NHL was with the Canucks. It's not like he was a Canuck lifer that the club felt indebted to give a job to.

Babych's statement suggests that he won't be doing a lot of on ice stuff, but that's hard to imagine. It makes me wonder if his job title is a way of getting around formally calling him a coach, and facilitating his ability to work with prospects on the farm and players at the top level.

Frankly, I don't care what we call him. He was a sturdy defender, and knew the fundamentals of the game. Good to have him (or anyone who knows solid D, alumni or not) working with the Canucks.

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12-09-2009, 12:25 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
I don't see what the big deal is. Babych has been coaching and president of the North Shore Winter Club. They've graduated a ton of players that have gone on to be NHLers/high draft picks. Obviously he knows how to work with kids. Plus he was qualified enough to be selected as an assistant coach for Canada at the Deutschland Cup.

You're not going to get someone like a CHL coach to leave his job for a position like this. At least they got someone who obviously has experience and qualifications in this area.
Nice. I wasn't aware he'd put together a good resume outside of playing in the NHL. I do think it's a bit silly to suggest that someone is automatically qualified for these positions because they had a long NHL career.

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12-09-2009, 12:31 PM
  #29
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Regardless of him being alumni he is more than qualified for this job.

I think that's all that matters.

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12-09-2009, 12:39 PM
  #30
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Working primarily in player development with defensive prospects. This seems to me to be an area where Babych would have success, given that he was a very good defensemen in the NHL for around 20 seasons. He knows a thing or two about preparation and what it takes for prospects to get to the show and how to play defense. I don't see this as a bad signing at all.

How guys like Delorme or Snepsts are qualified as scouts is a different story than Babych, a career defensemen, working with the young defensemen in this organization.

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12-09-2009, 01:22 PM
  #31
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On the one hand, I find it a bit funny how the assumption seems to be: played in the NHL for a long time = great at the off-ice aspects of the game.

On the other hand, Babych is very much qualified for this position, even if one ignores his playing career.

Still, though. I think that it's equally ridiculous to say "oh, GREAT HIRE!" knowing nothing but Babych's playing background as it is to say it's an awful hire just because he was once a Canuck.

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12-09-2009, 01:23 PM
  #32
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Also, I saw him up in the interior a couple summers back, and he had a goatee rather than the moustache. It was quite upsetting.

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12-09-2009, 01:26 PM
  #33
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I think one of the main reasons teams target alumni vs. young stars in the making is probably something to do with price and ease of making a signing. I think someone with a history with a certain organization is probably willing to take a lot less than someone who has no ties, and they are also (one would assume) easier to sign.

I don't really get the uproar about giving Dave Babych a part time position in the organization, especially a position that really doesn't seem to have much risk...

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12-09-2009, 01:28 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
How guys like Delorme or Snepsts are qualified as scouts is a different story than Babych, a career defensemen, working with the young defensemen in this organization.
At least Snepsts was a scout for NHL Central Scouting for five years before joining the Canucks.

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12-09-2009, 01:32 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
At least Snepsts was a scout for NHL Central Scouting for five years before joining the Canucks.
Totally unqualified pat-on-the-back hire, amirite?

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12-09-2009, 01:34 PM
  #36
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Totally unqualified pat-on-the-back hire, amirite?
I heard its cause Snepsts runs the alumni who are secretly in charge of human resources with the Aquilini group.

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12-09-2009, 01:35 PM
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Old
12-09-2009, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MW View Post
Also, I saw him up in the interior a couple summers back, and he had a goatee rather than the moustache. It was quite upsetting.
That would be really unsettling. He seems to lag behind the times by about a decade. At this rate, he'll have a faux hawk in 2015.

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12-09-2009, 01:51 PM
  #39
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I'm going to stay out of this argument, I'll just say that I'm glad the guy found something to do. I'm also glad I found another reason to keep my mustache now that Movember is over.

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Old
12-09-2009, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
At least Snepsts was a scout for NHL Central Scouting for five years before joining the Canucks.
Delorme is so good as a scout that he does not need to watch games, he just checks out how a player practises. The bonus is he can get home in time for dinner with the wife and kids.

And it does not really matter because where the Canucks usually draft as it is just a crap shoot according to Delorme. Trust your gut and hope for luck.
Quote:
"People call it a lottery, but it's only a lottery for the first five or so picks," Delorme said before leaving Monday for Columbus. "After that, it's a crapshoot. Scouts like to think it's an exact science. But, truthfully, it's a gut feeling and a bit of luck."
http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/n...7e&k=23305&p=1

Memo to Mike Gillis (copy to Francesco Aquilini):

Suggestion for improving Canucks drafting from Wetcoaster based on Ron Delorme's years of experience.
  • fire the scouting staff,
  • go with the rankings from scouting services for the first round and
  • then get a dart board and a psychic.

I am going to quote Dave Pratt approvingly - perhaps for the first and only time in my posting history:

There's a reason no Canucks player is in the Hockey Hall of Fame -- and there's a reason why there are no championship banners in the rafters of GM Place: Custer had better scouts.
http://www.canada.com/theprovince/ne...0-945c860aaabd

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Old
12-09-2009, 03:28 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
Memo to Mike Gillis (copy to Francesco Aquilini):

Suggestion for improving Canucks drafting from Wetcoaster based on Ron Delorme's years of experience.
  • fire the scouting staff,
  • go with the rankings from scouting services for the first round and
  • then get a dart board and a psychic.
You would think a team with this kind of drafting history would learn to tank once and a while. Oh wait, they would probably screw that up too. Wasnt there a rumor that Vancouver wanted Phillis second overall in 2007 to take Turris over JVR?

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Old
12-09-2009, 03:37 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Wetcoaster View Post
"People call it a lottery, but it's only a lottery for the first five or so picks," Delorme said before leaving Monday for Columbus. "After that, it's a crapshoot. Scouts like to think it's an exact science. But, truthfully, it's a gut feeling and a bit of luck."
Is this guy for real?

The way he says "Scouts like to think it's an exact science" to me implies he's something different than a scout. Maybe because he's worse...

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Old
12-09-2009, 03:49 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by gray View Post
You would think a team with this kind of drafting history would learn to tank once and a while. Oh wait, they would probably screw that up too. Wasnt there a rumor that Vancouver wanted Phillis second overall in 2007 to take Turris over JVR?
Consider the Canuck history in the NHL to be the dogged pursuit of mediocrity. 15 consecutive losing seasons (1976-91) and not once the Number One pick.

As another poster once noted - The Canucks suck at sucking.

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Old
12-09-2009, 05:04 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
At least Snepsts was a scout for NHL Central Scouting for five years before joining the Canucks.
Not to mention a minor league/junior head coach for a decade.

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Old
12-09-2009, 05:36 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by gray View Post
You would think a team with this kind of drafting history would learn to tank once and a while. Oh wait, they would probably screw that up too. Wasnt there a rumor that Vancouver wanted Phillis second overall in 2007 to take Turris over JVR?
honestly though, who gives a crap about what the "rumours" were. especially since we weren't close to getting the #2 pick.

however, reality is worth considering. Think Petr Nedved instead of Keith Primeau, Jaromir Jagr, or even Mike Ricci. the only time ever that Pat Quinn went with skill over size...

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Old
12-09-2009, 06:16 PM
  #46
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honestly though, who gives a crap about what the "rumours" were. especially since we weren't close to getting the #2 pick.

however, reality is worth considering. Think Petr Nedved instead of Keith Primeau, Jaromir Jagr, or even Mike Ricci. the only time ever that Pat Quinn went with skill over size...
^Not entirely...wasn't Nedved 6'3? Man that guy was frustrating. So much bloody talent in one heck of a package, but just no desire to put it all together. He was like Fedor Fedorov except he actually had a reasonable degree of success in the league.(think he hit 99 points one year).

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Old
12-09-2009, 06:28 PM
  #47
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This is clearly a hiring based on Babych past connection with the club and not on some demonstrated excellence by Babych in the area of player development. Playing in the League does not necessarily mean you can communicate and understand the progressions necessary to develop hockey skills. This is a craft learned by working directly in the field and attending seminars and studying the subject. And this doesn't mean you have been working with kids down at the local rink - it means you work with pros and have demonstrated ability to do so.

I see nothing of that sort on Babych's resume. He got the job because he is in with the alumni

People bring up that he played in the League for awhile or that he was running the Winter Club. Neither of these mean that he is a trained instructor with young pros or elite Junior players. If people are saying he has credentials as skill coach let's here them. What I see is people trying once again to explain away (with the feebleness of evidence) a hiring more designed to provide a job for old boy than it is to provide excellent skill development for the young Canuck players. Saying he played in the League therefore he is a qualified skill development coach or monitor of player development is I think absurd. This job takes specific training and expertise -the kind of expertise the Canucks should be seeking out.

The main point though is the way over the years the Canucks have put ex-players into key positions without any resume to support the idea they could do the job. Indeed, even after these people have demonstrated a consistent incompetence, they stayed hired. Any number of examples could qualify here.

In the paper it says that Babych intends to folow the players or keep an eye on them and that he has "already got his feet wet" because he watched Sauve during the Subway Series. Also, says he intends to keep in touch. Does this really sound like the kind of on-going, in-depth player development that fans would be satisfied with??? Sure he will get on the ice and give someone like Sauve a few tips but this hardly measures up to type of player development the fans of this city are owed.

Damn are expectations are low - and over the years they have been mostly so. Rather than demanding more from the team, many fans are all too willing to accept any clap trap put out by the organization.

The hiring of Smyl, Delorme, Snepsts, Lupul, Rota, McLean, Ronning, Odjick etc...and now Babych has nothing to do with making the team better. It's is done to give a buddy a job. The hope was that this type of hiring. which has locked the Canucks into mediocracy, and worse, for years might end under Gillis. However, why should it. The stands are full, the people buy or explain away any and all Canuck moves, and this cash cow keeps giving.

If this was one separate signing then no one is going to object. But it fits a continued pattern that has hurt the team. Over the long term, our scouts have been awful, our player development poor and the team, overall, badly run. If this was a team based in a town without such fervent hockey followers, fans would long ago have given up on the team and the team would have been forced to look to hiring the best person available and not the best connected.

Based on his background there is no way Babych would have been hired for the this job. It is only his connection to the club that gets him the job. This seems to me undeniable. IMO this is not how you hire to make the club the best it could be.

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Old
12-09-2009, 07:01 PM
  #48
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Damn are expectations are low - and over the years they have been mostly so. Rather than demanding more from the team, many fans are all too willing to accept any clap trap put out by the organization.
Clearly you've demonstrated it.

Name me an organization that doesn't hire former players.

Tell me, what were Cam Neely and Steve Yzermans specific management qualifications?

What are Messier's managerial qualifications for managing team Canada?

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12-09-2009, 07:05 PM
  #49
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People bring up that he played in the League for awhile or that he was running the Winter Club. Neither of these mean that he is a trained instructor with young pros or elite Junior players. If people are saying he has credentials as skill coach let's here them. What I see is people trying once again to explain away (with the feebleness of evidence) a hiring more designed to provide a job for old boy than it is to provide excellent skill development for the young Canuck players. Saying he played in the League therefore he is a qualified skill development coach or monitor of player development is I think absurd. This job takes specific training and expertise -the kind of expertise the Canucks should be seeking out.
Who said he's a skills coach? Dave Gagner certainly isn't so I don't know why Babych would be either. The Canucks just hired a full time skills coach and they had Dusan Kralik working with prospects in the summer. If they were hiring him as a skills coach they would have said so.

As a player development guy I'm sure his responsibilites will be more about making sure players are keeping maintaining the expectations the team has for them in terms of training, diet, conditioning, etc. and acting as a mentor.

Quote:
The hiring of Smyl, Delorme, Snepsts, Lupul, Rota, McLean, Ronning, Odjick etc...and now Babych has nothing to do with making the team better. It's is done to give a buddy a job. The hope was that this type of hiring. which has locked the Canucks into mediocracy, and worse, for years might end under Gillis. However, why should it. The stands are full, the people buy or explain away any and all Canuck moves, and this cash cow keeps giving.
Can the Canucks not hire former players at all? Of the dozen or so hirings Gillis has made, this is the first that seems old boys club-ish, unless you want to include Ryan Walter and his 92 games with the team.


Last edited by pitseleh: 12-09-2009 at 07:15 PM.
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Old
12-09-2009, 07:13 PM
  #50
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Can the Canucks not hire former players at all? Of the dozen or so hirings Gillis has made, this is the first that seems old boys club-ish, unless you want to include Ryan Walter and his 92 games with the team.
don't forget Dave Gagner and his 33 games in Vancouver... he was after all the deal clincher to move Bure!

I don't see the problem at all with this signing... it's essentially creating a new position on the team, and just adding more experience. It's not like Gillis fired a more qualified person to replace him with a former Canuck... and by the sounds of it, he's got the right experience to fill the role he's been asked to - as a mentor to the young dmen in the organization.

Apparently he's already been working with Sauve... and has recently been in touch with Connauton as well. For younger prospects like that, it can only help having a mentor like Babych, who's been known as a smart experienced defender in his career.

edit: just adding the info on him working with Sauve/Connauton:

http://www.kelowna.com/2009/12/09/ba...ith-prospects/

Quote:
Babych has already got his feet wet, having taken in defence prospect Yann Sauve’s performance for the Quebec Major Junior Hockey League select team in the Subway Super Series versus the Russian Selects last month.

“I met with him and will be keeping in touch,” said Babych of the Canucks’ second-round draft pick in 2008. “I’ll be watching video of his games. Right now, it’s more of a mentoring relationship.”

Babych has also touched base with blueline prospect Kevin Connauton, who the Canucks signed as a free agent out of Western Michigan in the summer and is playing this season for the Vancouver Giants.
?? 3rd round pick, not a free agent signing.


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