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Sean Avery on the first line = horrible coaching decision

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12-09-2009, 11:34 PM
  #1
Ice Hockey
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Sean Avery on the first line = horrible coaching decision

I'm starting to really wonder about John Tortorella. I know he doesn't exactly have a dream team to work with but even with dubi out there are several better options. Plus, our other lines don't have any spark. They could use a guy like Avery. What is Tortorella even thinking?

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12-09-2009, 11:37 PM
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Slick Rick 61
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It's been a revolving door on the wing. He wasn't terrible. I thought he was effective tonight. The very few times the Rangers were able to establish a forecheck deep in the zone, he was involved.

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12-09-2009, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ice Hockey View Post
I'm starting to really wonder about John Tortorella. I know he doesn't exactly have a dream team to work with but even with dubi out there are several better options. Plus, our other lines don't have any spark. They could use a guy like Avery. What is Tortorella even thinking?
As much as I hate Avery on the first (or 2nd line) the reality is this team has TWO top 6 players on the roster. So somebody has to play there...and until something at least resembles a cohesive unit it's going to be a revolving door as nyrangersfan stated.

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12-09-2009, 11:40 PM
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Tortorella needs to establish 4 lines and STICK TO THEM for more than 1 period...jeeze...how hard is it to understand that you need to build chemistry.

Establish 4 lines and let htem run for 15 games.

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12-09-2009, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ice Hockey View Post
I'm starting to really wonder about John Tortorella. I know he doesn't exactly have a dream team to work with but even with dubi out there are several better options. Plus, our other lines don't have any spark. They could use a guy like Avery. What is Tortorella even thinking?
several options? what several options? who HASNT he tried there? Anisimov, Check, Higgins, Check, Callahan, Check, just about every player on the roster has had a go there. Avery was just fine, he had a few chances, they generated a few chances, the problem was the Hawks had the puck for like 90% of the game because, well, they are freaking awesome.

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12-09-2009, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
several options? what several options? who HASNT he tried there? Anisimov, Check, Higgins, Check, Callahan, Check, just about every player on the roster has had a go there. Avery was just fine, he had a few chances, they generated a few chances, the problem was the Hawks had the puck for like 90% of the game because, well, they are freaking awesome.
by try, do you mean placed on the first line for 1 or 2 games?

gabby's the only proven goal scorer this team has. avery isn't a first liner. all of the players you've listed are better options than avery, who has 2 goals in 20something games.

and yeah i agree the hawks are awesome.

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12-09-2009, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
several options? what several options? who HASNT he tried there? Anisimov, Check, Higgins, Check, Callahan, Check, just about every player on the roster has had a go there. Avery was just fine, he had a few chances, they generated a few chances, the problem was the Hawks had the puck for like 90% of the game because, well, they are freaking awesome.
He hasn't tried Drury even once at center on that line. Why do I want that? Because Gaborik has been spending WAAAAAAAY two much time playing defense. Why is this? Because Prospal is terrible at faceoffs. Get Gaborik a center who can give the team puck possession. Keep Prospal on the wing on that line. At least try it. It makes far more sense than anything else he's done so far.

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12-09-2009, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
He hasn't tried Drury even once at center on that line. Why do I want that? Because Gaborik has been spending WAAAAAAAY two much time playing defense. Why is this? Because Prospal is terrible at faceoffs. Get Gaborik a center who can give the team puck possession. Keep Prospal on the wing on that line. At least try it. It makes far more sense than anything else he's done so far.
you can do that once Dubi comes back, but if you do it now, then youve got Anisimov, Boyle and Christensen all playing center, thats weak as hell up the middle.

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12-09-2009, 11:54 PM
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I don't think Avery is a bad fit on the 1st line. Who would you rather have there? Higgins didn't really work any better than Avery is working on that line. Who else is there? Lisin? Brashear? Voros? Exactly.

If you're going to say it's a horrible decision post a logical solution.

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12-09-2009, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
you can do that once Dubi comes back, but if you do it now, then youve got Anisimov, Boyle and Christensen all playing center, thats weak as hell up the middle.
At least they're all centers, which Prospal is not. I bet if you played those four as your centers, the Rangers faceoff percentage would go up. And Christensen has been fine for the third line. Maybe if Anisimov consistently played on the second line, he'd be fine too.

You really want to wait until Dubinsky gets back to try to get puck possession while Gaborik is on the ice? Why wouldn't you try to do it now?

Oh, and by the way... Prospal-Anisimov-Gaborik looked better than Avery-Prospal-Gaborik. I still don't know why that didn't even last a whole game.

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12-09-2009, 11:56 PM
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Higgins is really the only player who looks like he deserves a chance. He is playing real hard.

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12-09-2009, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ice Hockey View Post
I'm starting to really wonder about John Tortorella. I know he doesn't exactly have a dream team to work with but even with dubi out there are several better options. Plus, our other lines don't have any spark. They could use a guy like Avery. What is Tortorella even thinking?


Exactly. Avery isnt bad on the 1st line. It's just that ANYBODY can play on that top line.

Avery is our best skater after Gabs. Put him on a line with Cally and Dubi and put AA to center Gabs and Prospal


Prospal-AA-Gaborik
Avery-Dubi-Cally'
Higgins-Drury-Kotalik
EC-Boyle-PAP

It's a soft team but I think it's the last resort when Dubi comes back

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12-09-2009, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
At least they're all centers, which Prospal is not. I bet if you played those four as your centers, the Rangers faceoff percentage would go up. And Christensen has been fine for the third line. Maybe if Anisimov consistently played on the second line, he'd be fine too.

You really want to wait until Dubinsky gets back to try to get puck possession while Gaborik is on the ice? Why wouldn't you try to do it now?

Oh, and by the way... Prospal-Anisimov-Gaborik looked better than Avery-Prospal-Gaborik. I still don't know why that didn't even last a whole game.
eh, faceoff % going up like 4 or 5 % isnt going to change much in the long run. imho we just need to get on a roll, i think this team needs to just survive till they play the Islanders, then, against a team we are capable of going toe to toe against, they need to flat out dominate, get 2 wins, and start a streak.

dunno, you tell me we go into 3 games against the Sabres, Red Wings, and Blackhawks, with 2 on the road, and come away with 3 points, and were in every game till the last minute, i'll take it every, single, time.

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12-10-2009, 12:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
At least they're all centers, which Prospal is not. I bet if you played those four as your centers, the Rangers faceoff percentage would go up. And Christensen has been fine for the third line. Maybe if Anisimov consistently played on the second line, he'd be fine too.

You really want to wait until Dubinsky gets back to try to get puck possession while Gaborik is on the ice? Why wouldn't you try to do it now?

Oh, and by the way... Prospal-Anisimov-Gaborik looked better than Avery-Prospal-Gaborik. I still don't know why that didn't even last a whole game.
i agree with this.

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12-10-2009, 12:04 AM
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Honestly, what the hell is the difference who plays there. No one can score anyway.

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12-10-2009, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Inferno272 View Post
eh, faceoff % going up like 4 or 5 % isnt going to change much in the long run. imho we just need to get on a roll, i think this team needs to just survive till they play the Islanders, then, against a team we are capable of going toe to toe against, they need to flat out dominate, get 2 wins, and start a streak.

dunno, you tell me we go into 3 games against the Sabres, Red Wings, and Blackhawks, with 2 on the road, and come away with 3 points, and were in every game till the last minute, i'll take it every, single, time.
None of which addresses the issue, which is the lack of scoring. Yes, Gaborik isn't going to light the lamp in every game. I understand that. But look, increasing the team's faceoff percentage by 4 points means winning two more faceoffs in the game tonight. We all know that Gaborik can score at any time, so what if those two extra faceoffs we won were while he was on the ice? That's two more shifts in which our best player is playing OFFENSE and not DEFENSE.

Obviously we need to get on a roll, but that doesn't just happen by magic.

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12-10-2009, 12:08 AM
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None of which addresses the issue, which is the lack of scoring. Yes, Gaborik isn't going to light the lamp in every game. I understand that. But look, increasing the team's faceoff percentage by 4 points means winning two more faceoffs in the game. We all know that Gaborik can score at any time, so what if those two extra faceoffs we won were while he was on the ice? That's two more shifts in which our best player is playing OFFENSE and not DEFENSE.

Obviously we need to get on a roll, but that doesn't just happen by magic.
and again i dont think winning 2 extra faceoffs in the game is that huge of a deal to be totally honest. this team needs to catch a few breaks with some lucky bounces once in a while too.


also, im curious as to why nobody is talking about the horrendous reffing tonight/ Yes, all of our penalties were legit, but man oh man i can not believe the amount of crap they let the Hawks get away with...and when Micheletti says "shifty" for Kane, methinks he means "diver"...but thats just me.

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12-10-2009, 12:15 AM
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and again i dont think winning 2 extra faceoffs in the game is that huge of a deal to be totally honest. this team needs to catch a few breaks with some lucky bounces once in a while too.
One faceoff win can lead to a goal. Every single faceoff is a huge deal when Gaborik is on the ice. Prospal was terrible on draws tonight and he was terrible against Detroit. He was good against Buffalo. I really don't think it's a coincidence that Gaborik had twice as many shots in the one game against Buffalo as he did in the two games since. Stop minimizing the importance of this. It's probably one of the top 3 issues this team has at the moment.

And you typically don't catch lucky breaks if you don't have the puck.

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12-10-2009, 12:25 AM
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One faceoff win can lead to a goal. Every single faceoff is a huge deal when Gaborik is on the ice. Prospal was terrible on draws tonight and he was terrible against Detroit. He was good against Buffalo. I really don't think it's a coincidence that Gaborik had twice as many shots in the one game against Buffalo as he did in the two games since. Stop minimizing the importance of this. It's probably one of the top 3 issues this team has at the moment.

And you typically don't catch lucky breaks if you don't have the puck.
Wow... I wonder who Gaborik has scored most of his goals with at center?? And to be honest, if you are looking for even MORE production from Gabby, then I think you are looking at the wrong thing. Vinny has been more than fine there. It would be nice if our other centers could win faceoffs, but that is a different point altogether.


And the reason this team doesn't have the puck is because they can't pass the puck, and they don't win the puck in corners. This has to be the worst team I've seen with the Rangers when it comes to winning pucks in corners. Dubi coming back will help this, but we still don't have guys who can pass it besides Vinny and Gabby. Callahan I don't think is capable of pass to the tape, although he does help in other ways. Just comes down to the fact that our forwards can't pass it and they certainly aren't winning enough battles down low.


As for the OP, who the hell else should be there?? Maybe I'll buy Higgins, but it's the same difference whether he or Avery is on that first line and the other is on a different line.

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12-10-2009, 12:30 AM
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Wow... I wonder who Gaborik has scored most of his goals with at center?? And to be honest, if you are looking for even MORE production from Gabby, then I think you are looking at the wrong thing. Vinny has been more than fine there. It would be nice if our other centers could win faceoffs, but that is a different point altogether.
Gaborik has scored most of his goals with Prospal as the main playmaker on the line, whether that's been at center or at wing. I've seen no difference with either one as far as his and Gaborik's interactions are concerned. In fact, I think that the line as a whole, in terms of puck possession, has been better when Prospal's been on the wing.

If you don't have a winger that fits with the line (which we clearly do not), why not try a center who might improve the mechanics of the line?

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12-10-2009, 12:39 AM
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One faceoff win can lead to a goal. Every single faceoff is a huge deal when Gaborik is on the ice. Prospal was terrible on draws tonight and he was terrible against Detroit. He was good against Buffalo. I really don't think it's a coincidence that Gaborik had twice as many shots in the one game against Buffalo as he did in the two games since. Stop minimizing the importance of this. It's probably one of the top 3 issues this team has at the moment.

And you typically don't catch lucky breaks if you don't have the puck.

Stat:

Prospal Faceoff %: 51.1%

Drury Faceoff %: 51.1%


'nuff said.

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12-10-2009, 12:42 AM
  #22
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Gaborik has scored most of his goals with Prospal as the main playmaker on the line, whether that's been at center or at wing. I've seen no difference with either one as far as his and Gaborik's interactions are concerned. In fact, I think that the line as a whole, in terms of puck possession, has been better when Prospal's been on the wing.

If you don't have a winger that fits with the line (which we clearly do not), why not try a center who might improve the mechanics of the line?
No matter what you do, it is unrealistic to think that you are going to get much improvement in terms of production. Even in a perfect world, with the perfect linemates, I don't think you are ever going to put up much better numbers than what Gabby is already doing.

We certainly don't have the center on this team as far as being a perfect fit. Avery actually has the ability to pass a bit with Vinny and Gaborik where we don't even have that with most of the roster. And the main reason I think they struggled to get a ton going is because they were playing Chicago and Detroit.


We are just going to struggle when you have so many guys who don't belong in the NHL playing.

Dubi coming back will improve several things on this team though, so I'm looking forward to that even though he has his huge faults.

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12-10-2009, 12:55 AM
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No matter what you do, it is unrealistic to think that you are going to get much improvement in terms of production. Even in a perfect world, with the perfect linemates, I don't think you are ever going to put up much better numbers than what Gabby is already doing.

We certainly don't have the center on this team as far as being a perfect fit. Avery actually has the ability to pass a bit with Vinny and Gaborik where we don't even have that with most of the roster. And the main reason I think they struggled to get a ton going is because they were playing Chicago and Detroit.


We are just going to struggle when you have so many guys who don't belong in the NHL playing.

Dubi coming back will improve several things on this team though, so I'm looking forward to that even though he has his huge faults.
uhh...Gaborik with Gretzky in his prime centering him would be ridiculous.

no matter how awesome Gabby is, there is always more awesome

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12-10-2009, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
At least they're all centers, which Prospal is not. I bet if you played those four as your centers, the Rangers faceoff percentage would go up. And Christensen has been fine for the third line. Maybe if Anisimov consistently played on the second line, he'd be fine too.

You really want to wait until Dubinsky gets back to try to get puck possession while Gaborik is on the ice? Why wouldn't you try to do it now?

Oh, and by the way... Prospal-Anisimov-Gaborik looked better than Avery-Prospal-Gaborik. I still don't know why that didn't even last a whole game.
Prospal's played center enough in his career to call him a center - just because he's a little better suited for the wing does not mean he isn't one.

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12-10-2009, 02:12 AM
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Avery has seen time on every line almost. Think about how many lines he has played on in the last 3 weeks. And he has been one guy who has been playing well. I agree with the thread but for a whole different reason.

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